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Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2010, 06:02:25 AM »
Pete Dye is the greatest guy in the world, but he's been loyal to a fault to his sons and larger family in the design business and allowed them to cash in on his reputation with work that is far from the quality and consistency that he has produced.

It's interesting that throughout the American West and Asia (and part of the Caribbean) Pete's reputation isn't close to the reputation he has enjoyed in the Midwest and South, where his own direct design presence has been more systematically cultivated.
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Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2010, 07:09:49 AM »
Todd Schroeder (did Lodestone with Irwin) told me he was building a course in the area this post talks about.  Not sure if it is the same resort.  Anyway - note to Bill McB and the March Bandon folks - I can probably get Todd up to Bandon to talk to us about this site if you guys want (and assuming he is in Oregon during that time).  JC
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Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2010, 11:40:08 AM »
From the aerial view of the area that Michael pinpointed, it looks like an interesting property.  Interesting that from sea level to US 101 is an astonishing rise of 250 feet in the southern part of the property that looks to be only 140 yards wide. Wonder how they're going to route an out and back on a cliff.  Below are a couple of Panoramio pictures supposedly from that particular location.  Looks beautiful, if steep.  It sure won't look like Bandon.

JC, that'd be an interesting topic at the KP.  Why don't you IM Bill, in case he misses this thread.











« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 11:42:01 AM by Bryan Izatt »
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Michael Hayes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2010, 12:00:35 PM »
Here is a rendering of the map that i translated to google earth. 


note that 3 and 4 play in opposite directions and the distance from 11 green to 12 tee is huge.  looks to have 3 pars 3's and a drivable par 4 on the loop of 12-18.  Bye hole is stuck out way far from every thing.  I don't know how recent the map was, but it does note that seeding should take place in this spring.

MH
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Bandonistas Unite!!!

C. Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2010, 12:43:14 PM »
Thanks for posting this!  This is farther south than what I mentioned before.  It is also interesting because this is close to where Mr. Keiser was looking at land, when he baught the land for Bandon Dunes.  I hope Perry does a great job, because the land is very good and it would be a shame to see it wasted.
Chris
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Jim Haley

Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2010, 01:57:35 PM »
I have been told by friends in the area that it is no longer a Perry Dye project it is a Todd Schodder project.
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Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2010, 02:14:47 PM »
Jim,
Do you mean Todd Schroeder/Icon Golf Studio

Formerly?
http://www.designworkshop.net/portfolio/golf/design-team.html

« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 02:20:18 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
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Jim Haley

Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2010, 02:32:06 PM »
Jim,

Yes thats him sorry for the spelling error...
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Michael Hayes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2010, 02:35:24 PM »
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Bandonistas Unite!!!

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2010, 03:31:06 PM »
I have actually been on the site!....as we were looking for beach cabin property about 6-7 years ago.

It is definitely going to be a warmer golf site than Bandon.

I remember the site as pretty flat, with intertwining ravines, and was used primarily for horeses and cattle. As you approach the ocean you get the terrain variations which could be great! Not sure about the soil etc... Lots of trees and undergrowth.... could be perceived similarly to Crossings with ocean frontage.

I don't think there is a ton of traffic on the highway, kind of like the highway south of Carmel, Beautiful drive from Bandon or from California...

Could be impossible, but it is more remote than Bandon, LOL!

Sounds like it will be a destination resort with carts, so I'm not too optimistic, but hope it works.

Best of the luck to those involved, we'll see.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 01:19:17 PM by William Grieve »
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It's all about the golf!

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2010, 04:09:13 PM »
Well, as an Oregonian, all projects in my home state excite me.

From what I just read it sounds like a number of tees will be perched upon outcroppings, and sounds like a fair number of forced carries over cliffs falling down to the water.

The trick to this, in my opinion, is width.  A course shoehorned onto a piece of property with a bunch of forced carries and uber penal out of play areas will grow old very fast.  I don't think it will prove to be any spectacular hit in that case.

It looks like some of the routing wanders awfully close to Hwy 101.  Will it be visible?  Will you be able to hear the traffic?

At this point it seems like it is far too early to know too much.
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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2010, 06:43:40 PM »
What a beautiful site. I remember how suspect many felt about the Jones Jr group at Chambers Bay. No one knew a great young passionate architect named Jay Blasi would be involved. Look what happened there. Lets hope for the same here. cheers
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William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2010, 11:08:47 PM »
Quote from: Michael Hayes on December 14, 2010, 12:00:35 PM
Here is a rendering of the map that i translated to google earth.  


note that 3 and 4 play in opposite directions and the distance from 11 green to 12 tee is huge.  looks to have 3 pars 3's and a drivable par 4 on the loop of 12-18.  Bye hole is stuck out way far from every thing.  I don't know how recent the map was, but it does note that seeding should take place in this spring.

MH
.

Not sure what's going to actually be built, as I got this layout from the oregonshores website. Interesting tracking this info as it is "remote".

« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 08:32:43 AM by William Grieve »
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It's all about the golf!

Peter Ferlicca

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2010, 11:27:40 PM »
I have been wondering this so far, and I feel like I have to bring it up.  From looking at the photos, and where the holes will be located it doesn't seem too conceivable.  The back nine holes along the ocean seem way to steep to be able to handle golf holes.  The one picture that shows the guy standing on the tee looking out to the soon to be fairway, (I'm sorry but I just don’t see it, they would have to move tons of dirt just to be able to level a fairway there).  Does anyone have a topo map, or something we can correlate with the routing to see the elevation changes throughout the course?  It is DEFINETLEY going to be a cart ball golf course which is a major let down.  

My one question is, on that one link where it says it will be the local high schools home course.  Don't most high school golf teams walk their course during practice and play?  I don't see that happening here!!!!!

Other than that, it does look like a very good site.  Look forward to seeing the progress of the project.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 09:28:13 AM by PFerlicca »
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Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2010, 11:00:03 AM »
It will be interesting to see what the final outcome of this project is.  It is troubling that one architect started the process and it appears another will finish it.  From what has been posted, there doesn't seem to be much deviation in the Final? rendering vs the original stick routing. If this is the case, the 2nd guy got stuck with the the 1st guys routing.  And it is always the case that you don't get a great course without a great or really good routing.  I would like to get a topo for this site and see if the Treehouse could do better in an Armchair contest. 
This is a good example of what Architects have a hard time conveying to the layman.  The tougher the site,the maore land you need to make it work.  Here it appears someone heard that 200 arces is plenty for a championship course without taking into account the topo or the configuration of the parcel.  It seems the masterplan tried to economize by conjoining several of the fairways but even that doesn't appear to solve circulation issues inherent in the routing. 
It seems that several large chunks of tame topo within the course weren't utilized, leading one to believe that they were set aside for real estate development.  The difference with this type of approach and that of say, Bandon, was that, at Bandon, the course took priority.
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Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2010, 01:09:26 PM »
Tim,

If you go to the oregonshores site, the proposed plan that William posted is actually on a topo map. 

http://www.co.curry.or.us/publicservices/crookpoint/Crook%20shoreline%20boundary%20map.PDF

You can zoom in on the pdf to a fair degree to see the topo lines.  Not sure if they're 10 foot lines since they're not labeled.

Looks like a tough site - maybe not even fit for this purpose.  The pdf also shows the clubhouse, parking and a couple of residential/resort cottage areas including one on the constricted southern portion of the property.  I imagine that the routing would have to take into account the canyons that drain the surrounding mountains/hills.  And earth moving would be a challenge I imagine given there must be rock not far  under the surface.  One wonders how they would level some of the green sites or cross hill fairways enough to make them viable.  Dynamite?

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Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2010, 01:19:58 PM »
Not to mention the fact that the region gets a ton of rain.  The erosion control line item must be HUGE.
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"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Will MacEwen

Re: Dye design in Oregon
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2010, 01:21:24 PM »
I'm kind of skeptical, but I didn't think a course as fine as Sagebrush could be built on a challenging site.

I find it hard to imagine being that close to Bandon and passing up rounds at Bandon to spend somewhere else, but I am sure some golfers would like to dilute the Bandon experience with time at a more traditional resort.  We all love BDGR on this board, but some people find it a little to hardcore.
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