[Tim Bert]

Mike,

Seeing as how I'm staying in the Ben Hogan room tonight here in lovely Pacific Palisades, I feel entitled to ask a couple more question with a bit more bite on them.

1) What do you see happening to all of these talented and multifaceted professionals ...

Ben,

You're on your honeymoon for gosh sakes, put a lid on it!

He doesn't have to put a lid on it anymore... He's married.

[Gary Daughters]

Mike,

1) REM or Normaltown Flyers?

2) If #12 at Lane Creek always seems to play longer than it looks, that's due to:
    a) prevailing wind
    b) visual trickery
    c) wimp factor

3) What is the best Brunswick Stew within 20 miles of Athens?

4) How would you evaluate Kenny Rogers as a GCA?

[Mike_Young]

Gary,
1) REM or Normaltown Flyers?
Both groups are really good in their setting....I enjoy the Flyers but REM is really special....good guys and  Mike Mills and Bertis will play golf at the drop of a hat.....Bryan burke with The Flyers plays with us a little too....
I just came in from a Sister Hazel concert at the Classic Center...I played with Kenny and Drew that make up the band today and then we spent the evening at the concert land backstage.....WOW..I been listening to their msic for years but had not been to one of their concerts in a few years.....I'm old...there were a couple of thousand people there and all looked like babies.....

2) If #12 at Lane Creek always seems to play longer than it looks, that's due to:
    a) prevailing wind
    b) visual trickery
    c) wimp factor
I have noticed the same thing...would you like for me to say that I thought and thought about it and evaluated the wind and what the ODG's would do....I think it is the wind....and after analyzing a couple of Ross greens at a nearby course I adjusted the height of the mounding to the right of the green by 1.325 inches so that a perfect venturi affect could be created across the green with a 15 mile per hour wind....I also realized that the left side of the green needed to be lowered almost an entire half inch in order for me to get the look I was after....I just hope the guys that restore it in 50 years realize the subtleties and maintain such..

3) What is the best Brunswick Stew within 20 miles of Athens?
no doubt...Hot Thomas's   You?

4) How would you evaluate Kenny Rogers as a GCA?
I have actually spent some time with him on the site over the last 20 years....he has a very nice , well landscaped flower garden with some golf greens nestled in between....good guy , great singer....and probably as good at GCA as I am at writing songs and singing....

[Gary Daughters]

Mike,

I am not choosy about Brunswick Stew, just spare me the butter beans.  Was always partial to Old Hickory House, RIP.

[Mike_Young]

Mike,

Do you grow camellias?

Bayley,
I noticed that there was one old ODG that grew roses right?  Thomas?  Anyway presently I do not do Camellias....I have really gotten big into cake decorating and it consumes my free time....but perhaps down the road....

[Anthony Gray]

  Mike, 

  THaks again for all the wisdom.

  1 Do you hate it when the other architects of today copy your work?

  2 GT benifited from a holding call late in the game, have you considered writing a book on golf course architecture?

  3 What precautions are you taking to ptotect yourself from the swine flu?

  4 When was your last root canal?

  5 Did you ever consider a fancier name for your design company?

  6 Have you played Augusta National?

  7 What does the term minimalism mean to you?

  8 WAs Chris Farley the best motivational speaker of all time?

   Thanks again......Anthony

[Adam Clayman]

Oh geez   

Mike,

 What has finding and reading this web site done for you? (Not the friendships or exposure, the gca)

 Has reading about other courses and opinions changed the way you look at your business/designs?

 What has being a member of this DG taught you?

[Mike_Young]

Anthony,

1 Do you hate it when the other architects of today copy your work?
I don't know that any ever have....BUT I do think we all get our ideas from the past and try to "expand"....I think all art works that way....and I think the screw ups come from not knowing where to stop....

  2 GT benifited from a holding call late in the game, have you considered writing a book on golf course architecture?
I am writing a book on golf architecture and hope to have it finished before the end of the year....it is actually a book to "fast track "green committees as to" everything " they need to know in laymen terms and not just including architecture.....
As for GT....yes they benefited....but what we like here is they won....After this weekend UGA willhave ost two games and stil wonder why they are not picked number one and will be shouting as to how badly they would wreck GT.....

  3 What precautions are you taking to ptotect yourself from the swine flu?
I have quit eating pork until after flu season.....I'm not hanging around really ugly women...and I am washing my hands after I pick my nose...I was reading one of those Russian magazines regarding care for nose hair and ear hair and they claim more disease is spread after picking your nose and shaking hands etc than any other way.....

  4 When was your last root canal?
I have been fortunate with my tooth....it has never need any type of work....

  5 Did you ever consider a fancier name for your design company?
yes....it was quite a delightful experience....I got as far as making little napkins with my new name on them for little afternoon snacks etc but the local theater company saw the work and stole it.....


  6 Have you played Augusta National?
Yes,  I actually did a course for a member and he has been kind to ask me to play...you NEVER ask to play ANGC....I also worked the tournament for over 10 years in the 80's and got to play on vendor day each year....and have some buddies that have gotten in n the last few years since the new guy is from UGA...the question here is...will Billy P ever allow Spurrier in?  or is he in?"

  7 What does the term minimalism mean to you?
Most of the time it means "marketing BS"  it is almost used like the term "green" or "environmentally sensitive"......guys use it and then move 800 thousand cubic yards.....now some practice it but it has to be the right piece of land.....the term that irks me more and has really  screwed with boards etc is "restoration and renovation"  .....a lot of money has been spent for no reason other than it can be divided by a total membership and not seem like much...simple changes become big expenses all from pure BS in many cases.....

  8 WAs Chris Farley the best motivational speaker of all time?
He was right there.....but my first true motivational speaker was Bluto...."over?...did you say over?  Was it over when the Germans bombed pearl harbor?"    BUT I would have loved to have Farley over to crush my coffee table....

Adam,

 What has finding and reading this web site done for you? (Not the friendships or exposure, the gca)
I appreciate this website and it is informational and educational ( they are not necessarily the same)  I think that the first few years delved into more useful information and recently so much has already been covered that we get into many topics that are micro and just don't interest me like the past....But THEN...one topic comes along and makes up for it....   It also makes me realize just how many care about golf architecture in a true sense.....it is a small number....the rest of the golfing world knows it only by "architect status or signature"....

Has reading about other courses and opinions changed the way you look at your business/designs?
Yes it has.....often it is purposely complicated by architects in order to justify .....and many of these complications have helped bring us to where we are today with all the frills etc that have put the high cost on courses....nothing is what it seems in this business....

What has being a member of this DG taught you?
Number one it has taught me that there are a lot of really really smart people that love golf architecture BUT at the same time they take their intelligence and overthink much of this stuff....they take some of the ODG's and start thinking for them when much of the stuff they come up with was never ever considered by the ODG....but it makes me think
Second, a lot of guys talk about places they have never seen and yet become passionate about such....
Third, a lot of guys will say they have played course they have never seen....

[Bill_McBride]

Mike, do you think it is easier to be a minimalist with 100 men, 100 axes and double cut saws, 60 mules and 10 scrapers, or with a D-6 and a D-8 and a handful of Stihl chainsaws?

[Anthony Gray]

  Mike,

  1 Recently I played a course that was built in 1925. The super told me that they will be looking for someone to redo the bunkers next year. Would you be interested?

  2 The first time I went to an UGA game I was amazed that they bury the dogs in the stadium. Why don't they put hives of yellow jackets in the visitor section at Bobby Dodd Stadium?

  3 Many great architects started in other professions....medical doctor,insurance salesmen,stock trader, survayor,etc. If you did not design courses what would you be?

  4 What up and comer would you like to see restore your work?

  5 What is one thing about Augusta National that you were suprised to find out after playing?

  6 Red or white wine with duck?

  7 Is a six member greens comittee more knowledgeable than architect?

  8 do you ever list your membership on the DG on your resume?

  Thanks.........Anthony

   

[Mike_Young]

Bill,
Mike, do you think it is easier to be a minimalist with 100 men, 100 axes and double cut saws, 60 mules and 10 scrapers, or with a D-6 and a D-8 and a handful of Stihl chainsaws?
IMHO it would be 100men, 100 axes and double cut saws, 60 mules and 10 scrapers.....or you can do the same with miniexcavators, shovels, knuckle buckets and track hoes.....

Anthony,

  1 Recently I played a course that was built in 1925. The super told me that they will be looking for someone to redo the bunkers next year. Would you be interested?
of course....but in most cases they already know who and what they want.....

  2 The first time I went to an UGA game I was amazed that they bury the dogs in the stadium. Why don't they put hives of yellow jackets in the visitor section at Bobby Dodd Stadium?
What they do here in Athens never surprises me.....do you realize a bulldog is just not meant to function...they even have to have help breeding....   GT would never denigrate a yellow jacket in such a way as you mention.....

  3 Many great architects started in other professions....medical doctor,insurance salesmen,stock trader, survayor,etc. If you did not design courses what would you be?
I have actually been a woodworker and still enjoy it....I built cabinets while in college and highschool....my grandfather had been a cabinetmaker/builder and then I  took some woodturning classes later and enjoy both....but I have given this much thought and I really like the TV "prosperity gospel" ministry deal....I think that may be the most lucrative thing going in these times....you could be my "healer" and catch them when they fall backwards.....how bout it?

  4 What up and comer would you like to see restore your work?
I hope I don't know him yet.....but when that happens I hope he has at least designed some of his own work....I have a big problem with all of this redo/restore/reno stuff whereby the people doing the work don't have any existing courses they did from scratch.....
There are a few quotes I like: 
 "learn to make before you learn to break"(Hemingway)
 " Once you set out to copy another painter you can never be more than number two."
" Lots of people know a good thing the minute the other fellow sees it first. "
"Copying or cloning is not valid because it misses the whole point of art making."
Do you think the ODG's want a guy that has been doing their own work as they did or a guy claiming to have some inate ability to "copy" their work better than a guy with the experience of his own....I say they want the guy doing his own....
there is more smoke blown regarding this than any other part of golf design.....
Some might turn out fine but:
I want it to be someone that has his own work on the ground.


  5 What is one thing about Augusta National that you were suprised to find out after playing?
the speed of the greens during the tourney make it at least 18 shot harder.....

  6 Red or white wine with duck?
I have never eaten a duck.....so I guess I would say red....

  7 Is a six member greens comittee more knowledgeable than architect?
Wow...that would have to be answered on an individual committee/architect basis...but in most cases no....
However there are cases where the committee does not know that.  One has to realize that for most of these committee members they meet once a month for an hour and get a free lunch or dinner....they think about changes to their aged courses for a total of just a few minutes at a time and in most cases they get a low handicap member to advise..and all of this really comes back down to how their game plays....or what their buddies at the club across town did.   They really do not fully consider the impact in manycases...it's just chairman legacy/ego.....The committee business is very profitable once you get in it....they love to pay the highest price in many cases because it means they got a better product and no one can come back at them in the future....same goes for using the USGA rep as security in decision....I could tell you some tales....but not here....
But if ever on a committee remember that this business is a scratch your back business:
An architect/general contractor combination can sweep a town like wildfire on unknowing committees.....club a hires architect A and general contractor A.....they rebuild a green for 60000 dollars.....club B committee calls their buddies at club A and  is told how great archie A and General contractor A are....so these guys charge Club B 65000 per green(ego gladly allows them to pay more).....architect B tells said club it can be done for $45000 because he uses another contractor or his own shapers etc.....since General contractor A knows that he is never used by architect B he "puts the word out" re "cheap price".....and the committees have no time or the knowledge to understand what is happenening.....it is a huge business that revolves around committee men covering their ass in the future....  sorry for the rant.....

  8 do you ever list your membership on the DG on your resume?
Not yet.....
It's bad enough with some of these clubs actually listening to some of these ODG groups....while some are fine....most are like fan clubs....a club where I am a member actually had a member ask in a meeting if he could write a letter to the ODG society to see if it would be acceptable for the club to put a statue of the architect out front....now that is sad and dangerous for clubs and committees to think these groups are sanctioned in some manner....I have seen these types of groups recommend to committees and those committees feel that they have to listen....
For those of us in this business...IT IS A BUSINESS and all of this DG and ODG clubs are good sources for info etc but you got to know how to weed it out.....that's one reason why so much excess is being wasted on renovations at clubs across the country today....

[Anthony Gray]

  Mike...that is a nice bit of insight for those of us not in the business.

  1 What advice would you give to someone wanting to persue a career in golf course architecture?

  2 I love the statue story. If a club made a statue of you how would you like it made..ie clothes,shovel in your hand, cat rubbing up your leg?

  3 I heard the term Rossner when describing your bunkers at Longshadow. Do you like that term?

  4 Pete Dye did Dente de Perro at Casa de Campo, would you like to design Pene de Burro?

  5 For ones not in the business what are some of the things you would like us to know?

  6 I have never played one of your courses, what should I be looking foward to?

  7 What is the thing you love the most about your job?

  8 As far as this discussion group is concerned what would you like to see more/less of?

  Thanks for your time......Anthony

  
 

[Sean_A]

Mike

I play an awful lot of courses I would consider minimalist designs.  I tend to really like them because I enjoy the land being the primary focus and I get a kick out of little things which play a large role.  To a certain degree I think golfers accept that older courses tend to be more minimalist in their scope.  Given a decent, but not good piece of land, do you think most folks would accept a really minimalist design?  Secondly, many archies give minimalist design lip service, but don't really practice it perhaps because other pressures stemming from marketing make it difficult to so so.  As an archie, are you interested in designing these sorts of courses?

Ciao

[Joe Hancock]

Anthony,

You're going to have to promise to limit yourself to 5 questions once it's my turn.....seriously.

I don't like typing all that much.

 

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony,

You're going to have to promise to limit yourself to 5 questions once it's my turn.....seriously.

I don't like typing all that much.

 

  Joe.....what makes you think I'm serious?

  Anthony

[Mike_Young]

Anthony,

1 What advice would you give to someone wanting to persue a career in golf course architecture?
Right now I would tell them not to do it....I am not even pushing my son into it....it is a very volitale and unsteady business...I really don't even know how much of a business it will be in the future.....it is so very very small and if there is any downturn then people are out....

 2 I love the statue story. If a club made a statue of you how would you like it made..ie clothes,shovel in your hand, cat rubbing up your leg?
My thought on the golf architect is that we will all have a better product when no one really knows who the architect was....can club members name the clubhouse architect?  There is too much hype out there right now......so I am not into statues...especially of me but f they did a shovel in hand s fine..but there would probably be a Bassett Hound humping my leg or something instead of the cat thing....

  3 I heard the term Rossner when describing your bunkers at Longshadow. Do you like that term? Shoot all that stuff is goofy....I just build a bunker I like from what I have seen of the past....I am not thinking Ross or Raynor...if it happens that way so be I call it a Young bunker.....

  4 Pete Dye did Dente de Perro at Casa de Campo, would you like to design Pene de Burro?
I assume you have seen the video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsyoR6OQqLg
I don't know ..it would be too long for most players...


 5 For ones not in the business what are some of the things you would like us to know?

Many do not know what they don't know.....I would not call it a disrespect but you see so many that really have no respect for the architect unless he is a professional golfer yet if a random tour player comes out they will drool all over themselves to listen to what he has to say.....architects spend as much time learning their business as the tour player does practicing his.....you might know 95% of an issue but the 5% you have no idea of is where the architect justifies his pay.....if he is good.....

routing is huge....I don't think this site really understands that....I am constantly amazed at how much this site gets into talking design talent etc and yet the person being discussed may have never routed a course.......that is why so many architects don't take this site seriously because so much talk is about things that would be taken for granted by most  of us.....do you really think a goy that has been doing this for 20 years canot build a Ross or Raynor bunker?  


I think most drawing details are not what ends up on the ground....in detail....so if someone says they are putting the original drawongs on an odg course.....that is BS.....

As someone said the other day..it is critical to have your name on the plans..(I think it was a Jeff B thread)..there are so many people out there that do not have the complete experience of selling, drawing, inspecting and gettimg a project to completion while making the payroll....consider that when you review architects...

The overall restoration/renovation deal is really blown out of proportion and is hyped a little too much....I ask if a guy usually does his own work and does a restoration/reno somewhere hopefully he is stil known for his work and he does restoration/reno work just as one of the ODG guys would as part of his overall business.  Yet today we have this new field...IMHO I usually only see the "restoration specialist" term used when there is not a lineage of original work.  Why is that?  

And lastly,  what you see in some designs and sometimes wonder why..is often a compromise of which the public will never know the answer....

6 I have never played one of your courses, what should I be looking foward to?
Why?    I don't know what you should look forward too....that requires a good publicist to tell you all the great things about my courses and work and how many whales I saved from woodpeckers and sacred ground tortoises....Oh and how much water we saved and gave back to the community.....so far they can't get me past the point where I get the set of old rolled up plans and point out into the distance for the photo....so come play....

 7 What is the thing you love the most about your job?
F**king with redneck dentists.....
And I really enjoy the interaction with the guys on the ground....


  8 As far as this discussion group is concerned what would you like to see more/less of?
There is too much idealism on here.....I wish there was more realism and not as much sniping.....there are some guys that really take this thing too seriously yet have no frigging clue.  I love the old works and have respect for the designers of that era for what they have done but I  do not worship these guys as some super designer that for some reason just existed during that era....this site goes over the top on those guys sometime....IMHO

[Mike_Young]

Mike

I play an awful lot of courses I would consider minimalist designs.  I tend to really like them because I enjoy the land being the primary focus and I get a kick out of little things which play a large role.  To a certain degree I think golfers accept that older courses tend to be more minimalist in their scope.  Given a decent, but not good piece of land, do you think most folks would accept a really minimalist design?  Secondly, many archies give minimalist design lip service, but don't really practice it perhaps because other pressures stemming from marketing make it difficult to so so.  As an archie, are you interested in designing these sorts of courses?

Ciao

Sean,
I am always interested in designing with the land as much as possible.....
And yes I do think most people would accept such a design......
I try to never make a negative comment on some of the other work you may see out there....because there is always someone that can find that with your own work...BUT this business is not a business where one can keep a finite rating or ranking like a golf tournament where one knows who is the best because he actually has a score to prove it.....IN GCA marketing can play a big part of "how good" one is......I think the next few years will allow some pretty good stuff to come about.....and some junk to go away.....

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I hope this is not a funeral post. I know Mike. I like Mike. Mike is a great guy and top of his profession.

[Sean_A]

Mike

I play an awful lot of courses I would consider minimalist designs.  I tend to really like them because I enjoy the land being the primary focus and I get a kick out of little things which play a large role.  To a certain degree I think golfers accept that older courses tend to be more minimalist in their scope.  Given a decent, but not good piece of land, do you think most folks would accept a really minimalist design?  Secondly, many archies give minimalist design lip service, but don't really practice it perhaps because other pressures stemming from marketing make it difficult to so so.  As an archie, are you interested in designing these sorts of courses?

Ciao

Sean,
I am always interested in designing with the land as much as possible.....
And yes I do think most people would accept such a design......
I try to never make a negative comment on some of the other work you may see out there....because there is always someone that can find that with your own work...BUT this business is not a business where one can keep a finite rating or ranking like a golf tournament where one knows who is the best because he actually has a score to prove it.....IN GCA marketing can play a big part of "how good" one is......I think the next few years will allow some pretty good stuff to come about.....and some junk to go away.....

Mike

I hear where you are coming from, but don't you think there are archies who get more out of less because they are looking at the less with an interested eye?  Even for guys on this site many fall heavily for the obvious and often describe the less visually enticing holes as "weak".  Does this sort of thinking effect how you design courses?  If so, can you give an example(s) of where you added extras to holes that you didn't really think needed them?

Ciao

[Anthony Gray]

  Mike,

  As far as CBM is concerned, do you like the idea behind Old Macdonald?

  If in the future they did a tribute course to you, How's the name Old Young?

  Eric Smith and me want to come down when Ben visits, How many people does your couch sleep?

  My goal is to beat Adam Clayman to 10,000 posts, Do you think I'll make it?

  How much do you crave the idea of having an oppertunity with links land?

  Anthony

[Mike_Young]

  Mike,

  As far as CBM is concerned, do you like the idea behind Old Macdonald?

  If in the future they did a tribute course to you, How's the name Old Young?

  Eric Smith and me want to come down when Ben visits, How many people does your couch sleep?

  My goal is to beat Adam Clayman to 10,000 posts, Do you think I'll make it?

  How much do you crave the idea of having an oppertunity with links land?

  Anthony

Anthony, DDSN
I thought this thread had gone away....
1. As far as CBM is concerned, do you like the idea behind Old Macdonald?
I HAVE NO OPINION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER....SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA....
2.If in the future they did a tribute course to you, How's the name Old Young?
FINE BY ME.....BUT I THINK THE ODG FAD WILL BE GONE HERE SOON....
3. Eric Smith and me want to come down when Ben visits, How many people does your couch sleep?
FORGET THE SOFA....WE GOT A BIG KINGSIZE BED ALL CAN GET IN.....I DO EXPECT YA'LL TO COME DOWN...I HAVE PLENTY OF ROOM....HAVE U EVER USED INDOOR PLUMBING OR WILL THAT PRESENT A PROBLEM?
4.My goal is to beat Adam Clayman to 10,000 posts, Do you think I'll make it?
IF THAT IS YOUR GOAL I AM SURE YOU WILL.....YOUR AN AMAZING PERSON.....LIKE CHARIOTS OF FIRE SHIT ETC
5. How much do you crave the idea of having an oppertunity with links land?
I NEVER THINK ABOUT IT MUCH......
LOOK MY WHOLE DEAL IS I LIKE WHAT I DO AND I AM GLAD TO HAVE WORK TO DO....I COULD CARE LESS IF THERE IS A TRIBUTE COURSE TO ME OR ANYONE ELSE OR IF I WORK LINKSLAND.....I WANT TO ALWAYS HAVE A PROJECT TO DO...DO IT AS WELL AS I CAN...GET THE NEXT PROJECT WHEREVER IT MAY BE ... AND KEEP MY OVERHEAD LOW WHEREBY I CAN HAVE A FAIRLY EASY LIFESTYLE OF PLAYING GOLF COURSES AND DOING WHAT I WANT.....YOU THINK ANY OF THOSE ODG'S EVER KNEW THEY WERE ADMIRED BY ALL THESE GUYS.....HELL NO...AND I WOULD WAGER MOST WERE FAIRLY MISERABLE OR DISCONTENT.....
YOU THINK ANY OF THEM WOULD HAVE EVER HAD AN ODN (OLD DEAD NERD) LIKE YOU GUYS OVER TO THEIR HOUSE FOR GOLF....NOPE.....SO AT THE END OF THE DAY...I JUST WANT TO DESIGN/BUILD GOLF COURSES....STUDY NERDS...AND THEIR ACTIONS......IN A 100 YEARS MAYBE ONE OR TWO OF MY COURSES  WILL STILL BE AROUND.....

[Eric Smith]

Mike

Can you give us a hint to what your book will be about?

[Bill_McBride]

Where would you rank Anthony in the pantheon of nerds?

[Mike_Young]

Mike

Can you give us a hint to what your book will be about?

Eric,
I am actually working on two...one has been in the works for a couple of years....it is a database of small town courses that no one hears about yet they are a joy to play.....I have asked turf equipment reps from each state, irrigation reps, Titleist Salesmen, clubcar salesmen and a few others to send me their favorites that they call on in their territories....I have a lady putting them in a database and then I hope to compile by State....with a small description......hopefully guys can use it as they travel.....

The second is sort of one of those "for dummies" books....
It is a quick study of everything a grren committee person would need to know in a down a dirty, no BS way....and has a few chapters of stories form a redneck golf architect....

Send me an email and can tell more.....I don't want to bring this thread back up much anymore ....it is Brian Phillips Q and A time....beat him up for awhile

[Mike_Young]

Where would you rank Anthony in the pantheon of nerds?

Bill,
I don't know yet how I rank him....I have given him the Dental title of DDSN( doctor of dental science nerd)
he claims to be a minimalist nerd but I think that is because he thinks that is nerd cool....
Did I post this NERD FIGHT?   I heard it was him....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0G0nq3o_mo

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