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Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2009, 08:34:41 AM »
Kyle,
  Now that you've been on warm season grass and cool season grass, what type of grass to you hope to work with going forward?

Tony Nysse
Pine Tree GC
Boynton Beach, FL
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Joe Hancock

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Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2009, 09:15:59 AM »
Kyle,

Congrats on being highlighted here by Mr. Pazin. Here's a little gift from me to you for allowing yourself to be intellectually and otherwise undressed for potential public humiliation..... ;D

Listen all the way through. You'll appreciate it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT8dAeHe7Ow

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Kyle Harris

Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2009, 11:03:01 AM »
Kyle,
  Now that you've been on warm season grass and cool season grass, what type of grass to you hope to work with going forward?

Tony Nysse
Pine Tree GC
Boynton Beach, FL

Cool season - I think more can be done with the cool seasons grasses in terms of providing firm and fast conditioning through the green. There's too much weather dependence in the South, IMO.

Would be a nice challenge though, we were getting close at Hunter's Green in Tampa last summer.

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2009, 11:17:39 AM »
I like how Flynn turned golf course construction into a craft. Ever look at some of his built up slopes? He always finds a natural contour with which to match the slope and blend it. This makes the golf course "feel" more connected to the ground. Stand on our 3rd green and look back to the tees. They're benched into the hillside, but each slope coming off the tee down the hill is parallel and blended into the hillside. They even match the constructed bunker on the right side of the 2nd fairway! This seems to really be gentle on the golfer's eye and allows the other features of the golf course to draw attention away from the unnaturally flat teeing areas. I'm more and more amazed at how much of Huntingdon Valley was constructed, but doesn't appear to be so at all.

Kyle, here is a picture looking back toward the tee on HVCC #3...


Kyle Harris

Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2009, 11:21:34 AM »
Ed,

That's perfect. Notice how the slopes coming off the tees match the general slope of the fairway, the slope coming off the bunker on two in the background and also how the scale of the "build up" is proportional to the other contours.

Anthony Gray

Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2009, 11:23:34 AM »


  Kyle,

  All the best in your education. The Mon river flows north because PITT _____.

  Best.............Anthony

 

Kalen Braley

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Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2009, 11:34:16 AM »
Unfortunatly,

I had the "chance" to share a round with Mr. Harris at Beechtree just before the course breathed its final breathe and I must say if there is a ruder person who loves to cough in your backswing, trash talk, and in general be a nuisance on the course then I have not met him!!    >:(  >:(



Nah, its all good dog, just messing!!   ;D


In all seriousness though, in the spirit of what these threads are about, I'd like to add my two cents about Kyle.

While its true we only spent one round together, by the end of the front 9 I knew Kyle really was a GCA'er....because there are those who like/are interested in this stuff, and then there are people like Kyle who are tuly passionate about GCA.  It became very apparent to me his heart is in the right place and these are the people IMO that we need in the industry and who will make it thrive.

Good luck with everything Kyle and hopefully I'll get back east again sooner or later for another round or two of golfing fun!!  ;)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 11:36:23 AM by Kalen Braley »

Phil McDade

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Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2009, 12:31:17 PM »
My own little Kyle Harris connection...(and we've never met!).

I took up golf relatively late -- a good friend introduced me to the game in Minnesota in my early 20s, and we mainly played flat, uninspired, plowed-over corn field courses (we were single, broke most of the time, and played courses mainly on the basis of how cheap their green fees were). I knew and cared little about golf architecture.

I then moved to State College, PA., and finding myself with some extra time while my wife worked on her master's degree at Penn State, wandered over the nearby course a few blocks from our home. It was the White Course at PSU -- and like Kyle, I was fascinated by what I found there (this was in the mid-to-late 1980s, before the changes to both the White and Blue courses at PSU). I was particularly struck by Park's greens and greensites, his use of fall-away greens, and interesting use of the terrain to route holes. It was really the first golf course that made me think about architecture and realize that someone actually thought about how to route a hole and design interesting greens. (Interestingly, friends of mine kept insisting that I play the Blue course, which they regarded as a "tougher" course -- which it was, for the most part, owing to its length, but also duller and far less interesting than anything on the White Course. To this day, length in a golf course holds little interest to me in assessing its virtues -- a trait I attribute directly to playing three years on the White Course.)

Kyle's wonderfully researched essay on the Penn State courses can be found here:

http://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/penn-state-university-golf

Kyle Harris

Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2009, 12:35:09 PM »
There are roughly 100 edits and updates to that essay that I keep putting off.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2009, 12:38:37 PM »
Kyle,

I gave you an opportunity to tell me I was full of it, and how much you enjoyed young Jordan Wall as a member of this site, and how you took him under your wing, but you ignored me.  :-[ At least we both know Penn State would trounce Wash State handily in football.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Peter Pallotta

Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2009, 12:41:50 PM »
Kyle - you wrote earlier: "I think a most important area to critique a golf course is in how the green to tee walks mesh with the holes immediately before and after."

That seemed to me a charmingly unusual choice, and so I'd like to ask for your own personal hierarchy of values when it comes to the architecture itself (leaving mainenance aside for a while). That is, if can you jump ahead to a time when you actually have a free hand to design a golf course, what ,say, 5 elements/qualities would be most important for you to have manifested in that course.

Thanks
Peter

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2009, 01:09:13 PM »
Kyle,
Tell me more re your experience with Paspalum....the new stuff..platinum seems to be pretty good....why so much fungicide app? and where were you( dont need course name just area)  Some of the best fairways I have seen lately were paspalum
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2009, 01:53:39 PM »
Kyle,
I still have the belt and need to get it to you.
Wish we could have met up last week when in Philly.
But now I find we have so much in common...Eagle Scout(have you joined the NESA), piano...my mother was a piano teacher also, white belts....and the Dork thing.....and babes are always chasing us...

And don't forget SHATNER!

Which brings me to my question.

Kyle,

You love PSU football.  On the other thread you correctly noted my school's lack of success against the Nitanny Lions in the 07 Outback Bowl.  I think it's also important to note that you guys owned us in the 92 Fiesta and the 94 Citrus.  JoePa definitely has broken a lot of hearts in Tennessee over the years and I have a hearty respect for him and his program.

You love Star Trek.  Director JJ Abrams has mentioned on several occasions the flexibility of the new Star Trek series with the black hole/alternate universe storyline and the now infinite number of possibiliities to integrate characters from other Star Trek series.

If you could choose only one of the following scenarios, which would it be?  

A. Commander Data returns to the bridge of the Enterprise in the next installment of Star Trek.

or

B. Penn State wins the 2010 BCS Championship.




or



I am of course only teasing you as I too am a big fan.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 02:09:08 PM by Eric Smith »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2009, 01:58:12 PM »
I wonder what the Big 10 bowl record would be like if you took out PSUs results since it joined.

Kyle -

Have you been exposed to all areas of greenkeeping, in the course of your travels? If so, what do you think is the one thing that would really surprise the rest of us folks who have no clue what goes into maintaining our venues?

-----

Thanks for the terrific intro, Kyle, hopefully everyone will follow your lead, and thanks everyone else for participating.

Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Britt Rife

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2009, 03:45:32 PM »
I'm a wargamer and prefer cardboard operational level games.



Wow.  Just when I thought I am the only person in the world who has golf course architecture and cardboard wargames as their hobbies.  I swore that only I could have put together that bizarre combination.


Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2009, 04:47:40 PM »
I'm a wargamer and prefer cardboard operational level games.



Wow.  Just when I thought I am the only person in the world who has golf course architecture and cardboard wargames as their hobbies.  I swore that only I could have put together that bizarre combination.



+1.

My daughter pulled out my old Dungeons & Dragons stuff from my parents garage the other night.  She kept one of the books and actually has me to read to her the character descriptions from 'Deities & Demigods'. 

Kyle Harris

Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2009, 05:19:18 PM »
Garland,

You haven't been ignored, yet! Just have been in the mindset for the appropriate rejoinders.

I'll start with Peter's comments.

Kyle - you wrote earlier: "I think a most important area to critique a golf course is in how the green to tee walks mesh with the holes immediately before and after."

That seemed to me a charmingly unusual choice, and so I'd like to ask for your own personal hierarchy of values when it comes to the architecture itself (leaving mainenance aside for a while). That is, if can you jump ahead to a time when you actually have a free hand to design a golf course, what ,say, 5 elements/qualities would be most important for you to have manifested in that course.

Thanks
Peter

Green contour as it relates to the fairway and hole layout
Green to tee walks
Tee location
Efficacy of bunkering
Width

My values are set in the idea that golf is really a game where one is in a constant state of introduction and removal of an object ball from natural elements. The tee is the introduction point (perfect lie, complete control over club selection and decisions) and the hole is the "exit point" from the hole from which the golfer may remove his ball from nature and advance it outside the game to the next introduction point.

How the points where the ball is advanced outside the game ("in pocket") are managed and integrated with the rest of the golf course, for me, is one of the highest keys in the effectiveness of both the routing and the golf design in general. Let's take the walk between the 14 green and 15th tee at Cypress as an example (though I've never seen it). The player is both walking through a natural area with the ocean in sight, and then is set on the tee of one of the more natural holes in the world (followed by an even more natural hole with the ocean as the hazard). Therefore, the balance between the interruption of the game with the ball in pocket is kept with the reintroduction of the golf ball into some of the more natural and rugged areas of the golf course.

Extending this a bit further, we can look at the other areas of the golf course as variables in the influence of nature and luck on the ball's journey out of the hole. The game then becomes one of percentages where certain areas of the golf course will allow the player to advance the ball to the hole. Success of the shot becomes based in the change in how likely the player is to hole out the next shot - the more change, the more successful the shot. Conditioning of the golf course starts to creep in at this level, as such factors are instrumental in the likelihood that a shot is holed - especially as it comes to hazards, bunkers and firmness of greens.

I also am beginning to believe, more and more, that handicaps should be based off of an "perfect" score of 3 per hole. Can you think of a hole where 3 is a bad score?

Mike,

I worked briefly with sprigged Seashore Paspalum on greens in the Tampa/St. Petersburg area. From what I gathered, the Paspalum greens to the north were doing just fine, but much further south and the disease pressure was pretty high. We were dealing with brown patch and mowing heights of over .200.

Eric,

I loved the new Star Trek movie, but I do hope they maintain that story arc and not continue the current Next Gen storyline for some time. I'll definitely have to take PSU winning the 2010 National Championship...

I have to say, I sat in the Tennessee section of the Outback Bowl and the fans around me were both nice and accommodating - but apparently lost track of time since we play 60 minute games in the Big Ten. ;)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 05:22:56 PM by Kyle Harris »

Kyle Harris

Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2009, 05:23:48 PM »
I'm a wargamer and prefer cardboard operational level games.



Wow.  Just when I thought I am the only person in the world who has golf course architecture and cardboard wargames as their hobbies.  I swore that only I could have put together that bizarre combination.



Where are you on the planet Britt? I find it difficult anymore to find players that have the time and patience.

Kyle Harris

Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2009, 05:33:41 PM »
I wonder what the Big 10 bowl record would be like if you took out PSUs results since it joined.

Kyle -

Have you been exposed to all areas of greenkeeping, in the course of your travels? If so, what do you think is the one thing that would really surprise the rest of us folks who have no clue what goes into maintaining our venues?

-----

Thanks for the terrific intro, Kyle, hopefully everyone will follow your lead, and thanks everyone else for participating.



I think my answer would be just how much the golf courses changes during the course of the day, and especially during the course of a 4 hour round. I've been blessed/cursed with the opportunity to view the golf course through eyes that are no longer 4 hours wide.

Each golf course is also incredibly nuanced. At Mountain Lakes, our greens would speed up during the course of the day until around 4:30. If a group teed of at 2, they would start to notice the greens slowing down on about the 12th hole.

At Huntingdon Valley, we can get away with an evening cut lasting into the day after the next - of course assuming constant weather.

Another possible answer is the amount of detail and even general maintenance work that happens on the golf course that rarely, if ever, enters the golfer's field of vision. If the details are kept under control. For example, rough is almost always an 8 hour a day, 5 day per week operation during the growing season.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2009, 06:13:00 PM »

One more thought: I think a most important area to critique a golf course is in how the green to tee walks mesh with the holes immediately before and after.

Kyle, see my post today about Harding Park for the President's Cup.  Great minds and all that!

Bill_McBride

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Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2009, 06:23:44 PM »
Kyle, what were the greens at Mountain Lake?  I was thinking they were an ultradwarf, most likely TifEagle.  No?  What don't you like about TifEagle greens?  I personally think they are the best possible greens for our climate zone - so long as they don't make you overseed!

Have you had any experience with Champion?  I have heard so much anecdotal testimony about the high maintenance requirements after a couple of years that it is scary.  They sure are nice to start with, great putting surface down south.

Tim Bert

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Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2009, 06:39:41 PM »
The only hole I have ever played where 3 is a bad score is the short par three 8th at Holston Hills. No good reason to ever make a 3 there. It feels like a bogey!

Mike_Young

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Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2009, 06:55:25 PM »
The only hole I have ever played where 3 is a bad score is the short par three 8th at Holston Hills. No good reason to ever make a 3 there. It feels like a bogey!
Is this a joke?  That is a great hole and no one has had more twos than threes on that hole..... ;)
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Kyle Harris

Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2009, 07:00:52 PM »
Kyle, what were the greens at Mountain Lake?  I was thinking they were an ultradwarf, most likely TifEagle.  No?  What don't you like about TifEagle greens?  I personally think they are the best possible greens for our climate zone - so long as they don't make you overseed!

Have you had any experience with Champion?  I have heard so much anecdotal testimony about the high maintenance requirements after a couple of years that it is scary.  They sure are nice to start with, great putting surface down south.

The greens are TifEagle. The problems with the ultradrawves probably aren't consider problems simply because they are more a result of the climate and soil in that portion of Florida. Bill, I think you're in Pensacola, correct? Believe it or not, that is actually far enough north where any of the Tif Ultradwarves are a bit less persnickety. TifEagle is the like the tempermental two year old of the turf world. A lot of spoon feeding and a lot of close up management such as watering and cultivation.

It wouldn't be my first choice except where dictated by the climate.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Get to know Kyle Harris, starting tomorrow (Tues, 9/8)
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2009, 07:01:39 PM »
The only hole I have ever played where 3 is a bad score is the short par three 8th at Holston Hills. No good reason to ever make a 3 there. It feels like a bogey!
Is this a joke?  That is a great hole and no one has had more twos than threes on that hole..... ;)

Tim was a revolution away from making two 2's on 8 while playing 36 at Holston this past Sunday.  He was pissed he missed his second 2 on 8 so he took it out on the par 4 9th.  Yep, he holed it from 150 for a 2.  

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