[Tim_Weiman]

Is it possible to play a golf course more than a hundred times and fail to notice a world class golf hole right in front of your eyes?
 
Recreation Park is a municipal course in Long Beach, California that nobody talks about. It would not be mistaken for a venue like Bethpage Black, that’s for sure. But, make no mistake, the course has a wonderful “lost redan” lying there unnoticed just crying out for restoration.

My observation skills in the years I played the course obviously weren’t good enough, but I finally got to play Rec Park with Tommy Naccarato this weekend and what a treat it was. Before playing the 5th hole Tommy told me he wanted to show me something and took me over to an old tee hidden in the trees. Then he pointed to the lost bunkers which took on a whole different feel from the lost tee.  When I made it to the green, I realized the slope of the green fit the redan model perfectly.

I know it is a crazy comparison, but recently I played at North Berwick in Scotland, the home of the original redan.  If the 5th at Rec Park were ever restored, it might be just as much fun. It would be a gem, there is no doubt.

Has anyone else had the experience of seeing Rec Park’s “lost redan”?

[Bill_McBride]

Who was the architect?

[Jon Spaulding]

Bell, Sr. is the designer.

Not many things better in golf than playing Rec Park with Don Whorleone (Tommy). His passion and knowledge of that course bring it to life. It's a very good design, save a few holes. Also, it passes the Mucci test wherein we immediately headed from the 18th green back to the 1st tee after our first round of the day.

I've not played the original Redan, so will not comment too much on the comparison. I would say the proposed at Big Rec it is a bit too uphill, and a bit too "Kikuya" to allow for much of a running shot; far more uphill than the 3rd at Piping Rock. Either way, it would be a unique version with the restoration.

Most interesting about this hole (to me) is a completely alternate tee/green wherein the hole can be played as a downhill 120 yard short which is very good and offers some unique features down this way.

[Jon Spaulding]

A photo of the aforemention hole at Rec Park, from the old tee.

[Michael Dugger]

I also think I see the face of Mona Lisa in the shadows!

[Bill_McBride]

A photo of the aforemention hole at Rec Park, from the old tee.

Huh?   

"Caddy, I'll take the Stihl for this shot please."

[Chris Cupit]

I'm guessing that the guy in the white by the cart is on line with what the right edge of the green would be and the telephone pole/cell tower marks the left edge of what would be the green?  I think I see it.  Looks like you need some tree trimming--I can get my Stihl warmed up

[Sean Leary]

Bell, Sr. is the designer.

Not many things better in golf than playing Rec Park with Don Whorleone (Tommy). His passion and knowledge of that course bring it to life. It's a very good design, save a few holes. Also, it passes the Mucci test wherein we immediately headed from the 18th green back to the 1st tee after our first round of the day.

I've not played the original Redan, so will not comment too much on the comparison. I would say the proposed at Big Rec it is a bit too uphill, and a bit too "Kikuya" to allow for much of a running shot; far more uphill than the 3rd at Piping Rock. Either way, it would be a unique version with the restoration.

Most interesting about this hole (to me) is a completely alternate tee/green wherein the hole can be played as a downhill 120 yard short which is very good and offers some unique features down this way.

Spaulds,

Maybe if the Don had invited us to play Rec Park this weekend, then he coulda played with us today. Too bad..

[Tim_Weiman]

Jon,

Thanks for posting the picture. As for the kikuya, there is no question the entire area around the green would have to be cut down (including the area behind the green) or perhaps seeded with another grass, but I don't know why this couldn't be done.

Next time I"m in Long Beach I'll consider your point about the hole being "too uphill", but my immediate reaction is that I don't believe it would be a problem.

All in all, the lost redan at Rec Park would be loads of fun, I believe. Too bad there is little chance of it ever being restored.

But, maybe Tommy can work some magic a la Yale. There is lots of cool stuff at Rec Park I'd love to see restored.

[David Stamm]

Tim, I too have had the education from Tom at Big Rec (old Virgina CC). And I've stood on said tee with him and I could see the potential greatness. What's interesting to me as well is that it does not appear that Bell ever made it across the Atlantic, so this concept was gleaned form his mentor, Thomas, and examples on the east coast that he saw on his travels there. Like Spaulds, I have not made it over to the original, but it certainly seems he did the template justice, from what I can tell. He also had done a downhill version at San Clemente's 15th.

[Robert_Ball]

Jon gets an A for effort on the picture.   The cart and walker are well short of the green.  Chris got the left/right lines correct.

Tim,

We need to get out to Willowick so you can see Billy's lost Short hole.  The next time you're on #9 tee there just look 20 yards to the right.  It's as striking as Rec Park 5.  Billy Bell's interest in the Redan and Short seemed to grow in the late twenties as he began incorporating similar holes into his solo efforts.  Other Billy "Redans" could be found at Sunset Fields South (NLE) and the aforementioned San Clemente.  South Hills CC 17 is/was one of his better "Shorts."

Robert

[Bill_McBride]

Tim, I too have had the education from Tom at Big Rec (old Virgina CC). And I've stood on said tee with him and I could see the potential greatness. What's interesting to me as well is that it does not appear that Bell ever made it across the Atlantic, so this concept was gleaned form his mentor, Thomas, and examples on the east coast that he saw on his travels there. Like Spaulds, I have not made it over to the original, but it certainly seems he did the template justice, from what I can tell. He also had done a downhill version at San Clemente's 15th.

David, when did this stop being Virginia CC and change to "Big Rec?"

Our UCSB golf team played a match vs Long Beach State at Virginia CC in 1962 - was it on this course?  I remember little except the 18th, which was a par 5 with a big valley in front of the green.

[David Stamm]

Tim, I too have had the education from Tom at Big Rec (old Virgina CC). And I've stood on said tee with him and I could see the potential greatness. What's interesting to me as well is that it does not appear that Bell ever made it across the Atlantic, so this concept was gleaned form his mentor, Thomas, and examples on the east coast that he saw on his travels there. Like Spaulds, I have not made it over to the original, but it certainly seems he did the template justice, from what I can tell. He also had done a downhill version at San Clemente's 15th.

David, when did this stop being Virginia CC and change to "Big Rec?"

Our UCSB golf team played a match vs Long Beach State at Virginia CC in 1962 - was it on this course?  I remember little except the 18th, which was a par 5 with a big valley in front of the green.

Bill, the one you played was at the present Virginia CC, also in Long Beach. The original, which had been done by Willie Watson in I believe 1909 and then redone by Bell, is what became Recreation Park. The club sold the land in the mid 20's (I can't remember the exact year) and purchased land on the other side of town and hired Bell and Tillinghast in the early 30's(?) to design their new course. TN knows the all the details of the history. I believe Spaulding just played the "new" one and maybe he can provide pics.


Tim, Robert is spot on. It's eerie standing on the 9th tee at Willowick and look to the right and you can clearly see the remnants of a Short that was about 110-120 yds. The green, the bunkers, everything is right there, in the middle of a grove of trees. This is just one example of many ghosts of the past here in So Cal. Lakeside has quite a few, unfortunately. The old 10th green can clearly be seen there complete with an irrigation control box growing out of it.
And of course the ones we saw at Ojai during TN's tour this past KP.

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