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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2009, 12:41:52 PM »
Has anyone looked at the size of the home market for top end golf without pedigree?

Scotland and Ireland are awash with top end golf courses and hotel complexes and some extremely well known ones are clearly in need of a little cash. I refer to the heavily discounted offer currently at OH as an example.

What we need over here are more decent layouts in the £75-£100 market.

Chappers

There a lot of very good courses available in that price range and less.  Its just a matter of the willingness of folks to put the notching belt in the closet. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2009, 02:05:20 PM »
David T/Adam L/Sean,

I didn't say that the close proximity to Inverness Airport wasn't a factor, and Mr Parsinen has proved himself a very smart operator and I'm absolutely certain that he had a very robust business plan that took into account a nearby airport. However to get back to the original point which was comparing CS as a golf development to others elsewhere in Scotland since the second world war, developments such as Kingsbarns and Turnberry if you want to count it, don't only have the benefit of far bigger airports serving a much wider catchment area but they are also in areas with far larger populations within a couple of hours travel time (by car).

Tim/Adam,

Kidd is doing the Ayrshire although when I last heard it was slow in coming out the blocks, can't recall what the problems were. What I was talking about was the Ardeer Penninsula which is where Nobel used to have their explosives factory. Not sure if theres a deal done on the site but I can guess who's looking at it and who might be lined up to design.

Niall

Mark Arata

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2009, 03:03:11 PM »
I dont really know what the complaints are about this course, it was fantasic, the views were incredible, and the course was a hell of a lot of fun.....it really doesnt punish the mid handicapper as much as Cruden Bay, which was also very nice, but the rough was borderline impossible because of all the rain they have had...

I think after next year, this place is going to be huge hit.........I would come back and play it again in a heartbeat.
New Orleans, proud to swim home...........

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2009, 03:46:40 PM »

Thanks

Latest; Hot off the presses a new review by somone who's actually played it

Headline

A few 'fake' features fail to flumoux fans. Focus is on fantastic fun!
Let's make GCA grate again!

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2009, 07:44:21 PM »
I think the proximity to Inverness airport is important for attracting British visitors. As previous posters have said, there are lots of flights there from various UK airports. Sans airport, Inverness is a big hike if you're in England. Obviously if coming in fom the US, the calculation is rather different.

Adam

Last summer I flew from Atlanta to Gatwick on Delta, switched easily to Easy Jet and was in Inverness by 3 p.m., in the flat at Dornoch by 5 with drink in hand!

The guys who flew into Edinburgh and drove to Dornoch were exhausted when they arrived.  I found the LGW - INV connection to be very easy.

Stan Dodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2009, 08:27:59 PM »
I think it was one of the best new courses I have played.  Top 100?... it is compares favorably to the Shore Course at MPCC, of the courses I have played.

Rich Goodale

Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2009, 03:33:09 PM »
I had a guided tour of Castle Stuart in April and played the course for the first time about a month ago.  Knowing Mitch and his game and having played with him at Dornoch the day before his most recent round there, I very much value his observations.  Mine are as follows:

1.  Castle Stuart (CS hereafter for brevity) easily fits in with the best of the new courses I have played over the past 10 years (i.e. Kingsbarns, Pacific Dunes, Applebrook) and also compares favorably with the best of the older courses I played for the first time this year (i.e. Royal Melbourne (West and East), the Valley Club, and Kingston Heath).  It sits comfortably within this company.

2.  It is a new course, with seeding lines in the fairway still visible and enough roughness to allow one to imagine ameliorations and alterations to be made as the course physically matures and the green staff and management gain, interpret and act on information gained from players as well as their own observations.

3.  The management and staff are all highly competent and committed to developing a very special golf course.

4.  The course is the most comprehensively "arty" golf course I have ever played or seen.  Tremendous care has been taken to place greens on sites which are not only interesting from a golf point of view but also aesthetically pleasing.  There are more "skyline" greens than I have ever seen, and others are framed by views of lighthouses, mountains and the Castle Stuart itself.  In addition, as has been discussed before on this board, there was a conscious effort to create interesting mini- and micro-undulations on the course, both on the fairways and the green sites.

5.  In regards to the above, there is a relative profusion of aged wood around the course (most of which I do not think are technically "sleepers"), both in bunkers and on the sides of paths going from green to tee, but they do not seem at all out of place.  There are also a few Ryeish eyebrow bunkers which are amusing, but relatively trivial to lines of pay (as they are at Rye).

6.  The overall routing of the course, which divides the 18 holes into two mirror-image 9's which first go down to a strip of thrilling shoreline holes and then up to a Kingsbarn-like recreated linksland is ingenious, creating a course which has an adult mixture of intimacy and seclusion.  There are a few aerobically challenging climbs, most notably from 12 to 13, but that is necessitated by the fact that the natural landform climbs up that way, and you eventually have to get from point A on the shore to point B on the uplands.   Thoughtfully, there is a refreshment appliance halfway up the hill.

7.  As for the course in general, it is distinguished by characteristics such as:
•   Mostly very wide fairways, with penalties for straying from the proper side challenging rather than binomial
•   Some interesting “rumples” in the land, but more “micro” than “mini” undulations, i.e. indicative of design rather than nature.  These features will surely mature and morph over time.
•   Many green sites with significant ground movement, both on the putting surfaces and in their surrounds.  High stimpmeter readings would not suit this golf course.  That being said, there are oodles of points of interest on most greens which will only be close to fully revealed with repeated play.  Playing this course once will be satisfying, but only by playing it many times will you begin to understand its subtleties.

8.  The clubhouse, which is retro (art deco) is comfortably sized and designed to allow either camaraderie or seclusion, and staffed by people with the friendly and intelligent edge that defines the best of the Scottish people.

9.  As to specifics, in my brief encounter, the following were the most interesting to me:
•   The multiple tees which sit between the 1st and 10th holes (aiming in opposite directions), many of which can be used flexibly for either hole.  There is even one of these tee markers on the putting green!
•   The reachable par-5 2nd which makes it clear to the observant golfer that you must go left on your second but “penalises” you with fascinating recovery shots if you stray right.
•   The driveable 3rd which has even more fascinating recovery/scoring possibilities if you miss left.
•   The long par-5 7th which has a cool right->left slope making the almost inevitable 3rd shot to the green problematic
•   The spectacular drive over a huge waste area on the 13th with the mid-iron then to the skyline green
•   The punchbowl  17th green that begs for a reverse Redanish shot down the left to get to any leftish pin
•   The long 18th where you hit your 2nd of 3rd downhill to a diabolical green in front of the clubhouse, with spectators sipping their pints on the balcony

I reserve final judgement until I (hopefully) play the course several more times, but it is now already at least 2** on the Rihcelin Scale
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 04:58:22 PM by Rich Goodale »

Ash Towe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2009, 04:08:58 PM »
Rich,
Thanks for that informative and insightful review.  There was much to take in.

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2009, 04:12:40 PM »
A fine description and review, Rihc, this is why I still stick around this website....

What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2009, 05:50:42 PM »
Rich -

Thanks for the lucid and comprehensive review/analysis of CS.

DT           

Rich Goodale

Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2009, 12:54:57 AM »
A fine description and review, Rihc, this is why I still stick around this website....



Thanks Michael (and Ash and David), this is why I stick around too.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #61 on: September 14, 2009, 03:12:39 AM »
A fine description and review, Rihc, this is why I still stick around this website....



Thanks Michael (and Ash and David), this is why I stick around too.

Rihc

A 2 star on the Rihcelin Scale is heady stuff.  I know we disagree on the merits on the merits of some championship courses but I generally fall in line with your ideas concerning the lesser greats.  Based on your comments I gotta believe CS is a must see.  Cheers.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Castle Stuart for the second time
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2009, 03:54:21 AM »
Just a quick response on this thread... I played CS last Friday and what an awesome experience it was!

I have a few photos which I will post when I have more time, and I hope to be able to describe the playing experience in more depth for those that are interested, but clearly there are a few other issues that are getting people talking: the aged aesthetic, which I'll leave till another time, and the location.

This course has a great setting! By being on the Moray Firth it combines the coastal context with that of being in the Highlands of Scotland. But instead of being in the middle of nowhere, it is only 5 minutes from the airport. I tend to combine holidays with my wife, with a morning or two of golf, but when I do go away on a golfing trip with mates, it tends to be a short 3 day break, so if we havent driven, proximity to the golf course is critical. Sean touched on it earlier, if you are squeezing one last round in before a flight, you dont want to be rushing off the courses and driving at speed to the airport. The staff at CS even offered to drop me back at the airport for my flight back to Manchester!

Will post pictures soon (and some of Nairn as well)...

Cheers,

James

2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell