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Patrick_Mucci

From a playing perspective, what's your
« on: September 03, 2009, 09:59:07 PM »
Favorite starting hole and why ?

NOTE: Only holes actually played should be discussed.

Answers should be in the context of your playing the hole AND in the context of a match/medal play competition that you're in.

Amongst my top 10 is # 1 at GCGC, a relatively short par 4 that plays mostly down wind.

To reach the fairway a modest carry is required, but the fairway is split by a narrow mound/dune into two sections.
The left side fairway is wide and requires a shorter carry, however, ball hit to that sector require a carry over a deep bunker while drives hit right require a more heroic carry, however, they are left with an ideal angle of attack requiring no carry.

It's a hole that's hard to bogey, which can yield a good number of birdies.

It's a good hole to start a round on a positive note.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 10:06:24 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Ronald Montesano

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2009, 10:10:28 PM »
#1 at Tobacco Road or Tot Hill Farm...take your pick.  Both preview the visual deception on which M. Strantz depended.  Look at the holes from green to tee and you'll see all the space(s) provided by the architect.  As I recall, they had fans running on both greens, indicating the amount of moisture that builds up in the Carolinas in the summertime.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Phil Benedict

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2009, 10:22:29 PM »
Pine Needles.  Par 5 reachable in 2 if you hit a good drive.  Gathering bunker in the lay up area.  Left a 5-footer for an eagle a foot short 1 time.  Fits the land like a glove.

Ed Oden

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2009, 10:51:40 PM »
Patrick, for match play, its got to be NGLA for me.  Its far and away the most strategic opener I have played.  There are just so many ways to play each shot, none undisputably better or worse than another.  You can pretty much make any number there, which in my mind is the hallmark of a great match play hole.

As for stroke play, I'll take Yeamans.  Generous from the tee, a bit more exacting on the approach and then a roller coaster ride on the green.  Big numbers are rare so the odds are you won't kill your round on the first hole.  But the hole is still full of character.

Ed

David Stamm

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2009, 10:57:28 PM »
Pat, I too would nominate GCGC. The potential for a good score can put one in a great frame of mind, but for such a short hole, if one were to make a bogey, it can out the player in catch up mode right off the bat.


I love Rustic Canyon's opener. You can make it as hard or easy as you want. Ditto for Riviera. That green there puts you on immediate notice to see if the putting touch is there.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Bill_McBride

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2009, 11:03:13 PM »
I like a relatively easy par 5 to start.  My favorite is the first at The Valley Club of Montecito.  It requires a decent tee shot.  Following advice from Tom Doak, the club recently removed a large tree that blocked the left side of the fairway, which is a good thing, because that tree blocked the best line for a second shot to reach the green.  The green opens up from the left side and has bunkers in a steep slope below the green to the right.  When the tree was there, the play was into the center or right side of the fairway, requiring a left to right long iron or fairay wood.  Now it's possible to hit a much more dangerous second shot that brings all those greenside bunkers into play!

David Stamm

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2009, 11:05:48 PM »
I like a relatively easy par 5 to start.  My favorite is the first at The Valley Club of Montecito.  It requires a decent tee shot.  Following advice from Tom Doak, the club recently removed a large tree that blocked the left side of the fairway, which is a good thing, because that tree blocked the best line for a second shot to reach the green.  The green opens up from the left side and has bunkers in a steep slope below the green to the right.  When the tree was there, the play was into the center or right side of the fairway, requiring a left to right long iron or fairay wood.  Now it's possible to hit a much more dangerous second shot that brings all those greenside bunkers into play!

Bill, remember, it's a par 4 now, no?
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Bill_McBride

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2009, 11:08:22 PM »
I like a relatively easy par 5 to start.  My favorite is the first at The Valley Club of Montecito.  It requires a decent tee shot.  Following advice from Tom Doak, the club recently removed a large tree that blocked the left side of the fairway, which is a good thing, because that tree blocked the best line for a second shot to reach the green.  The green opens up from the left side and has bunkers in a steep slope below the green to the right.  When the tree was there, the play was into the center or right side of the fairway, requiring a left to right long iron or fairay wood.  Now it's possible to hit a much more dangerous second shot that brings all those greenside bunkers into play!

Bill, remember, it's a par 4 now, no?

Only for the best players from the back tees.  For me (like #1 at Pasatiempo), it will always be a par 5!

Dan King

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2009, 11:14:34 PM »
I gotta go with the obvious answer -- Machrihanish. Read all about it and be ready to be disappointed, but I wasn't at all. Love it. I also loved The Machrie, right there in a same neck of the woods (Only as the crow flies.) Speaking of The Machrie, I've always been partial to first holes that take you quickly away from the hustle, bustle and stress of civilization. First holes like Royal Aberdeen, Spyglass and Pacific Dunes. They just allow you to enter a different state and get into the golf zone right away.

What is this stroke play of which y'all speak?

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
Machrihanish was not a grueling course, but any legitimate scratch golfer who went around in level fours would be extremely delighted. And yet I don't think a twenty-handicapper would ever struggle to break a hundred there.  Machrihanish was fun, yet challenging, a combination that is suprisingly rare.
 --Michael Bamberger

Brad Tufts

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2009, 11:15:50 PM »
#1 at Myopia.  274 yards straight uphill.  Very tough green to read.

Your round can start with a quick bird or an ugly 5 or 6.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2009, 09:28:29 AM »
Probably the first at SFGC.  Huge fairway and overall a good hole to get your game going in the right direction.

Mike Policano

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2009, 10:08:05 AM »
The first at St. Andrew's.   As a lefty with a fade, even I can't miss that fairway.  It is followed by a short second shot that asks for some precision now that you have left the R&A in the dust.   ;)


Shane Wright

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2009, 10:23:48 AM »
Portstewart....only thing lacking is an interesting green...

Jason Topp

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2009, 10:25:24 AM »
1st hole - Stoneridge - Stillwater, MN

290-320 downhill par 4.  Green runs from front to back.  Green driveable.  3 wood left has 50 yards of room side to side but a blind approach.  Agressive tee shot to right must be squeezed in a 15 yard gap to leave a visible approach or possibly drive the green.  Miss the tight target and bunkers, trees and ob are possibilities.

Unconventional starting hole that tempts very agressive play from the first shot of the day.  The balance of risks is sufficient that I alternate my club and line off the tee depending on the day.  

Kalen Braley

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2009, 10:27:00 AM »
Of the courses I've played, I've got to go with Pacific Dunes #1

A very neat  1st hole with the massive dune on the right, undulating fairway, and blind approach lets you know right out of the gate what you're in for. 

jonathan_becker

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2009, 10:37:13 AM »
I'll second Tobacco Road's opener because I've made birdie the 3 times i've played there.  Always a good way to start.

Kiawah's opener is always nice because it's by far the easiest hole on the course.

PCCraig

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2009, 10:48:59 AM »
#1 at TCC

Off the tee the aggressive line is over the fairway bunker on the left, you bring in OB (the range) in play, but it then gives you the best (open) shot into the green, it also makes the hole play 25 yards shorter. That's a tough tee shot to hit right off the bat so you can play out right onto the hill that used to be the racetrack seating and hope for a good bounce, but then the second shot is longer, over a greenside bunker, with a road long, and the green going away from you. It's really an easy 5 for the normal golfer and a hard 4 for almost anyone else.

I think was makes it a stronger hole is that it's the first...in the middle of the round it wouldn't be as difficult as the player would be more willing and more able to hit an aggressive tee shot.
H.P.S.

Michael Whitaker

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2009, 10:53:59 AM »
My favorite opening holes are:

Kingsley Club - just tough enough... just easy enough... with just enough strategy. It provides a player the opportunity to play safe or take a chance depending on their state of mind that day.

The Old Course - I never tire of standing on that tee and absorbing the experience. What better way to calm the nerves than have such a wide fairway to welcome an opening tee shot? But then your nerves are tested as you attempt to clear the burn by the proper distance on your second.  It all seems so easy, but make a mistake and you can quickly be one down. Marvelous!

Cuscowilla - a short par 4 that quickly let's you know your opponent's style of play and/or state of mind... he is either going to blast his opener over the bunkers for an easy/short approach to the green or play safe to the right and face an uphill shot over the greenside bunker. You can learn a lot on that hole.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Shane Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2009, 11:14:08 AM »
Jason, wow, hadn't thought of that one.  Great call....and a REALLY good course, outside of the bunkers.



1st hole - Stoneridge - Stillwater, MN

290-320 downhill par 4.  Green runs from front to back.  Green driveable.  3 wood left has 50 yards of room side to side but a blind approach.  Agressive tee shot to right must be squeezed in a 15 yard gap to leave a visible approach or possibly drive the green.  Miss the tight target and bunkers, trees and ob are possibilities.

Unconventional starting hole that tempts very agressive play from the first shot of the day.  The balance of risks is sufficient that I alternate my club and line off the tee depending on the day.  

Chris_Clouser

Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2009, 11:25:30 AM »
The best two holes I have played are Crystal Downs and Southern Hills.  There is something about those elevated tee shots that just get me pumped to play the course.  Crystal also is a perfect microcosm of what you will see on that day with the course.  Soutern Hills not as much as it lacks a lot of the contouring you will find throughout much of the course, especially the back nine.

Other than that, another one is the first at a local course in Noblesville called Fox Prairie.  Right away you have the challenge of ripping a drive over the hazard if you feel lucky and having a shot at eagle if you clear it or laying back and take a relatively easy par to start the day. 

Jay Kirkpatrick

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2009, 11:26:27 AM »
I loved Yeamans opener.  Pretty straight-forward drive into a slight upslope.  The approach goes over the gravel entry road to one of the coolest green complexes on the planet.  Great way to start a round...

TEPaul

Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2009, 11:35:42 AM »
NGLA's #1.

I like to hit an iron on the first tee if I can and I always have there. The tee shot just feels good to me calling for a nice draw with a long iron. It just feels really comfortable and it's not risky unless I draw it a bit too much. I've always felt the idea is to hit it more out to the right than one normally thinks and you're generally right in the middle of the fairway (the base of which is blind from the tee) with a nice wedge of some sort in.

The other opening tee shot I like is Torresdale/Frankfort----eg the same thing---a nice draw long iron down to the base of the blind fairway with a wedge of some sort in.

Both greens-----NGLA's and Torresdale's are really tough (for different reasons) and you can't put it in the wrong place to the pin or you'll have real problems making par.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 11:40:53 AM by TEPaul »

Karl Kocher

Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2009, 12:14:20 PM »
Best #1's I've played, top 5:

1. Pinehurst #2 - inviting, wide fairway drive then left with a mid/short iron to a fierce green....maybe birdie, maybe two chips and a double....Love the church bells in the backround!
2. Pine Valley - never forget the first time I put a peg in the ground there....not for the wayward drivers of the ball.
3. WFW - long opener and such a hard green, so hard a VW was driven over it the night before the '74 open and it didn't leave a mark!
4. Waterville - Such a tough driving hole and what seemed to be into the wind every day...why were the caddies trying to talk us out of the back tees? I found out right away!  Might be my favorite course on either of those large islands....
5. Merion - the shades of green when you look off that tee box late in the day are awe inspiring...and the hush of those lunching right behind you is historic.....

Shane Wright

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Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2009, 12:18:20 PM »

Karl, finally, someone else that likes Waterville......great to hear.
Best #1's I've played, top 5:

1. Pinehurst #2 - inviting, wide fairway drive then left with a mid/short iron to a fierce green....maybe birdie, maybe two chips and a double....Love the church bells in the backround!
2. Pine Valley - never forget the first time I put a peg in the ground there....not for the wayward drivers of the ball.
3. WFW - long opener and such a hard green, so hard a VW was driven over it the night before the '74 open and it didn't leave a mark!
4. Waterville - Such a tough driving hole and what seemed to be into the wind every day...why were the caddies trying to talk us out of the back tees? I found out right away!  Might be my favorite course on either of those large islands....
5. Merion - the shades of green when you look off that tee box late in the day are awe inspiring...and the hush of those lunching right behind you is historic.....

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From a playing perspective, what's your
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2009, 12:46:19 PM »
The first at NGLA is one of my favorite holes anywhere, but I wouldn't want to start a match on it (given my limited career record there).

I really like the first hole at Engineers. Tee shot has plenty of room, and in a match anything can happen on that green. 

Favorite first hole modern is Kingsley.  I just don't think I would fare as well in a match there.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 12:48:26 PM by John Mayhugh »

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