what are the best courses in maryland and virginia

[Jay Flemma]

so some of us were having this discussion at the potomac cup.  (I got yelled at for suggesting Royal New Kent).  what are the best courses in maryland and what are the best in VA?

[Chris_Clouser]

Never played in either state, but I would wager that Five Farms and Cascades are the odds on favorites for the title...

[Andy Troeger]

I'd be very surprised if there's anything in Maryland better than Baltimore CC East. Only other two courses I've played are Congressional Blue and Bulle Rock--both are very good but BCC is super.

[mark chalfant]

Baltimore 5 farms, Four Streams, and Columbia CC !  in Chevy Chase


Virginia:  Golden Horseshoe, Creghton Farms, Riverfront and Cascades


p.s.  Adam  Messix once told me of a nice Herbert Strong layout near Baltimore,  but  I forget the name

[Mark Pritchett]

From everything I hear Kinloch has to be right up there near the top. 

[Jay Flemma]

I liked Kinloch and Five Farms a great deal.  Any others?

Shame about beechtree...

[Ron Csigo]

so some of us were having this discussion at the potomac cup.  (I got yelled at for suggesting Royal New Kent).  what are the best courses in maryland and what are the best in VA?

Jay - I'm fond of Royal New Kent myself.  It's a good suggestion IMO.

I recently played the River Course @ Kingsmill last month. It's a nice Pete Dye course that I'm sure has some support.  

[Jay Flemma]

there's two good dyes...kingsmill river and va tech.

what about cannon ridge?  anyone play it?  like it?

[Jason McNamara]

I have walked RTJ, not played it, but thought I'd throw it in for consideration.  Top 5 maybe?  Who's actually played it?

[Bill_McBride]

I have walked RTJ, not played it, but thought I'd throw it in for consideration.  Top 5 maybe?  Who's actually played it?

I played it twice in the early 90s and saw the first President's Cup there.  It's a nice big rolling course with some water thrown in, but I'll bet there are a dozen better courses in Virginia.  Nothing I can think of in Northern Virginia though.  The DC area guys can chime in here.

[Jeff Taylor]

If memory serves, Herbert Strong designed Country Club of Maryland and Woodholm Country Club. Both sit near the Baltimore Beltway. They may have been long in their day but are short by today's standards. That does not make them weak sisters by any stretch. They both sit on rolling topography and have small but fast greens. Woodholm hosted the Maryland Open a few years back.

[Chris DeNigris]

Jay,

Emphatically agree about RNK...my favorite in the whole region. I think it's Mike's signature course, even though TR and Caledonia get more buzz.

For most of us there is a course that stirs something indescribable deep down inside. She's it for me.

There isn't anything I don't like about the course (the unfortunate lack of walkability notwithstanding)....although what they're doing to the back nine is slowly driving a stake into my heart.

Up the road a piece (and off the beaten path) Mattaponi Springs has some really interesting things going on.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jay,

In MD, I like BCC 5 Farms.

It's an enjoyable challenge.

[Jimmy Muratt]

Virginia
1.  Kinloch
2.  Creighton Farms
3.  RTJ
4.  Cascades

Baltimore CC - Five Farms is the best in Maryland by far.

[Matt_Ward]

For those who have not played it -- Four Streams in Bealsville, MD is a first rate layout from the hand of Steve Smyers. Gets little attention because most have likely never played it. I don't question the qualities of Five Farms but Four Streams is clearly a "must" play when in MD in my mind. Good call from Mark C in mentioning it.

[Jason McNamara]

I have walked RTJ, not played it, but thought I'd throw it in for consideration.  Top 5 maybe?  Who's actually played it?

I played it twice in the early 90s and saw the first President's Cup there.  It's a nice big rolling course with some water thrown in, but I'll bet there are a dozen better courses in Virginia.  Nothing I can think of in Northern Virginia though.  The DC area guys can chime in here.

Yeah, I couldn't think of anything else near DC, but don't know the courses down by Richmond.  Thanks Bill.

ps.  How did I miss you at the President's Cup?  I mean, I was there too.  :-)

[Carl Nichols]

My current top eight in the DC area*, limited to those courses I've played, is: 

1.  RTJ (VA) [It gets better each time I play it -- flame away!]
2.  Congressional Blue (MD)
3.  Columbia (MD)
4.  Four Streams [Used to have this higher, but I played it recently for the 4th time and was underwhelmed]
5.  Congressional Gold (MD)
6.  Bethesda (MD) [Maybe I'm a homer, but I think it's solid.]
7.  Chevy Chase (MD)
8.  Westfields (VA)

*I'm thus not including Baltimore, Beach, or Southern VA courses.

[Bart Bradley]

I think many people would mention the Old Farm and possibly the Virginian for Virginia...certainly they are the best in the far southwestern portion!

Bart

[Bill_McBride]

I have walked RTJ, not played it, but thought I'd throw it in for consideration.  Top 5 maybe?  Who's actually played it?

I played it twice in the early 90s and saw the first President's Cup there.  It's a nice big rolling course with some water thrown in, but I'll bet there are a dozen better courses in Virginia.  Nothing I can think of in Northern Virginia though.  The DC area guys can chime in here.

Yeah, I couldn't think of anything else near DC, but don't know the courses down by Richmond.  Thanks Bill.

ps.  How did I miss you at the President's Cup?  I mean, I was there too.  :-)

Jason, we spent a lot of time behind the first par 5 and the last par 5.  Both were interesting.  The first was too long and required a lay up.  We were right on the edge of the back of the green and the wedges were landing within 15' of us and spinning back.  On the last - #15? - there were some wild plays to get home in two.

The crowds weren't large, I'm also surprised we didn't meet.   

[Rob_Waldron]

Besides the usual suspects:
BCC East
Congo Blue
Columbia
Bulle Rock
Four Streams
Chey Chase Club

Maryland has a few hidden gems:
CC at Woodmore - Best AP design I have ever seen. Of course it has been re-worked
Swan Point - The look and feel of South Carolina
Woodholme


For the Daily Fee player:
Patriots Glen in Elkton
Whiskey Creek
PB Dye
Mountain Branch
Waverly Woods

Best Newbies:
Lake Presidential - Landmark course in Upper Marlboro
Oak Creek - One of Tom Clark's best efforts near Six Flags. Too bad nobody plays it!


Sorry Carl, there is no way that Bethesda comes close to any of these. The numerous extreme doglegs in concert way too many trees takes the fun out of the course.

[Carl Nichols]

Rob, I certainly agree that Bethesda could use to trim some trees.  I'm also not interested in defending the course, but if you really think that P.B. Dye and Waverly Woods [to pick two I've played multiple times] are much better than Bethesda, then I think our tastes in courses are sufficiently different that we should just agree to disagree.  [I also think Bethesda is slightly better than Chevy, but can easily see how others would see it differently.]

[Jerry Kluger]

I would like to add Mataponi Springs Golf Club; this is a real good public course in the Fredericksburg area - perhaps the best of the non-resort public courses in Virginia.   

[Adam_Messix]

I think you all have mentioned the best courses in the combined two states, but didn't mention the Country Club of Virginia's James River course that is a very nice Flynn effort that was restored by Lester George in the last couple of years.  

The hidden gem though is Woodholme, a really nice, and surprisingly tough Herbert Strong course in Pikesville, MD just off the Baltimore Beltway.  

[Cory Lewis]

Besides the obvious courses already mentioned, a few sleepers I enjoyed:

in VA:  Hermitage(Manakin), Farmington

in MD: Woodmont(North), Woodholme

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

gotta add Primland to the VA discussion.  its new, and rarely played, but very good.