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Dan_Callahan

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Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« on: March 29, 2007, 11:34:45 PM »
Can't wait to see it. Some of the changes mentioned in this Globe article sound interesting:

http://tinyurl.com/2xaquw

PCCraig

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Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2007, 12:24:19 AM »
Dan,

I saw the article this morning as well, here is a copy for the others;

I can't decide if a bunker in the middle of the 18th is good or bad, I suppose this spring I'll have to see for myself.

Pat

By Jim McCabe, Globe Staff  |  March 29, 2007

NORTON -- The hole story sits in the 18th fairway.

For the whole story, however, start at No. 1 and wind throughout miles of golf course to understand and appreciate the transformation Gil Hanse and Jim Wagner have pulled off at TPC Boston. If you know the venue from past editions of the Deutsche Bank Championship -- a $7 million PGA Tour event held Labor Day weekend -- you may not recognize it.

"If it feels older and looks more rustic, then we've done our job. That would be a great compliment," said Hanse, whose work at TPC Boston is a convenient starting point to a local golf season ready to blossom. After a brief blast of snow, slush, and ice, brown grass and soft, mushy turf is at our feet, and golf courses are slowly, but surely coming out of winter hibernation.

TPC Boston isn't quite ready for play, but soon it will be. In the meantime, Hanse and his colleagues have the place virtually to themselves.

His star in the world of course architecture was considered bright by those within the sport's inner circles years ago, but thanks to his exquisite work at The Boston Golf Club in Hingham, Hanse is no longer a secret. He and Wagner -- a vice president and design partner in Hanse Golf Course Design, Inc. -- are involved in projects in California and Nebraska, and just returned from Scotland. Still, their commitment to TPC Boston has been nothing short of consuming, given that they jumped into the project within two weeks of Tiger Woods's victory last Labor Day and are still there, almost on a daily basis.

"When people ask what we're doing, it's been said that we're trying to New Englandize it, if that's even a word," said Hanse, who was busy Tuesday shaping a bunker at the 11th hole. Somewhere on site, Wagner was busy with another bunker, because if this project is about anything, it's bunkers.

"I'd say they've touched every single one of them," said Eric Baldwin, championship director of the Deutsche Bank Championship.

And they've done so with patience and purpose. Bunkers, so far as Hanse and Wagner are concerned, should appear old and eroded, and they achieve the effect with attention to detail, down to the little islands of tall fescue that pop up in the middle of some bunkers. Although one would imagine such a mind-set would result in many new bunkers, the opposite took place.

"There are fewer [bunkers] now" said superintendent Tom Brodeur. "There were maybe 110 and now there are probably 52-53, although there's still the same relative square footage [of sand]."

Hanse did that by combining a series of small bunkers in some spots, such as to the left of the first hole, which is now a large, rugged-looking hazard. But in some cases, a bunker was added, which brings us to the hole story in the 18th fairway.

"One of the really cool things they've done with the bunkers is to bring back some places where you really have to think before you swing," said Baldwin, acknowledging what has been a critique of the course, that it was more of a blast-away course and less of a shot-maker's dream.

Wagner gets credit for putting more strategy into the 18th with the shaping of a steep, links-like pot bunker in the middle of what would be the layup area at the long, par-5 18th. Long hitters will still rip for the green in two, but those playing it as a three-shot hole must take caution because that 20-by-25 feet of sandy real estate will put a bite into your score.

"It's just a cool pot bunker," said Brodeur. He concedes that he's overwhelmed by some of the changes, one of his favorites being the par-4 17th. It was a hard dogleg left that benefited long hitters who could cut the corner, but it now puts a premium on the approach shot, with a new green that is a mere 3,300-square feet.

"That's A-plus work right there and he does A-work anyway," said Brodeur.

If you're thinking a 3,300-square-foot green is postage stamp-like in this era of 10,000-square-foot putting surfaces, then imagine No. 4, one of four new greens (also the ninth, 16th, and 17th) Hanse has put in. There's perhaps 3,100-square feet of putting green there, which is OK, because the hole will play in the vicinity of 300 yards, a drivable par 4 that was a dogleg right, but is now straightaway.

Go for it with your drive, but if you miss, great bunker work guards that tiny fourth green.

"We've tried to alter the strategic character of the golf course through the bunker work," said Hanse, who has worked closely with Steve Wenzloff, the PGA Tour's vice president of design services. Hanse has also received valuable input from PGA Tour member Brad Faxon, a New Englander who favors old-world courses that are not so much about length as they are about precise shots.

Reducing the number of bunkers and enlivening those they have reshaped is only part of the work by Hanse and Wagner. They've also done a rarity in today's world of golf -- they've shortened the course by approximately 165 yards, taking length away from Nos. 4, 16 (now approximately 161 yards to a green that has been brought closer to a large pond), and 17.

"They've put a little bit of the motion back in the drives," said Baldwin. "You have to work your ball in a variety of ways."

Hanse also has overseen a handful of sweeping changes, such as the cross-bunker at the par-5 seventh, a large expanse that begins roughly 140 yards from the green and runs 40 yards deep toward the green. And the stonewall work done at the par-3 16th and behind the green at the par-3 third? Baldwin and Brodeur think they add a mature, distinctive look that courses as young as TPC Boston (it opened in June 2002) rarely have.

"Those guys are so very talented," said Brodeur. "I'll be interested to see what the reaction is."

Assuming Mother Nature continues to cooperate, Brodeur should have his answer soon. A new season for one of our oldest sporting passions is here.
H.P.S.

Nick Church

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Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2007, 10:32:23 AM »
I enjoyed reading the article.

I am curious how the before & after images might look.

I had hoped that Hanse's website might have a progress report with pictures.

Selfishly, my first thought was regret that Mr. Hanse wasn't brought in to design the second course at my club.

Nick Church

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Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2007, 09:51:12 AM »
Does anyone have pictures of the re-work at TPC Boston?  I'd really like to see what Hanse & Co. did there.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2007, 10:00:16 AM »
No pictures are posted at the club's website:

www.thetpcofboston.com

or at Hanse's website:

www.hansegolfdesign.com

We'll just have to wait until  sometime in June after all this rain for someone to play there and take some pictures. :(
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Cliff Hamm

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Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2007, 11:44:37 AM »
The changes sound excellent.  On the other hand, having attended numerous tournaments, including those at TPC Boston, I would venture to say that Boston is the worst spectator course I have ever seen.  It amazes me that for a TPC it is less accommodating for spectators that US Open venues.  

On the front nine there are bridges that funnel the entire crowd into 5 across.  It is a mess.  The 18th is a terrible spectator hole, which is not able to hold the huge crowds that one would anticipate this year.  Anyway, obviously GCA comes first, but it would be nice if changes were also made for spectators.

PCCraig

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Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2007, 01:27:45 PM »
Hey there everyone,

I actually got around to playing TPC Boston and seeing some of the changes this past week, and thought I would report back on them.

When I played, only the front nine was open, and of those nine, only 6 greens were playable.

The big changes I saw;

#1- Front right two bunkers is now one large one with small "islands" of turf within. Also there are now small moguls/dunes/humps down the left rough. (These "dunes" are now everywhere on the course. At first they can be a bit of an eyesore, but then they start to grow on you and make the place feel a little more rustic.)

#4-Bunkering almost totally redone, most bunkers were consolidated into larger ones. Large amount of trees plucked from the short right of the bunkers.

#5- Short right bunker is now super super deep, and they replaced the wall of the bunker from sand to grass.

#6- Brand new green and left tee. The new back left tee plays through a narrow chute of trees. And the new green is were the old two front bunkers were next to the water. The also built up a "bunker hill" (a hill with pot bunkers all over it) on the left side of the green.

#7- Front left bunkers are now all one huge bunker.

#8- Raised ground on the left of the green, while lowering the right side. Frames the hole much better.

And for the back (which we drove in a cart to check out.)

#11 Front bunkers consolidated into one large bunker. Pretty intimidating.
#16 New green, right were the front fairway was on the old hole, now is almost an island green. But shorter.

#17 Is out of this world, hard to explain but looks like something out of Tobacco Road in NC. Totally redone.

#18, Tees moved, tons of trees taken out. The front bunker in middle of 2nd shot landing area is going to make things harder.

Hopes this helps, sorry no pictures.

Pat
H.P.S.

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2007, 02:15:24 PM »
I'm sure the work of Gil and Jim will be wonderful and I'm glad they were brought in to do the work. I think the real story here is that this is the third major renovation to a golf course that is just about four-years-old. I've heard estimates from people familiar with all three renovations that the total cost to upgrade the course thus far has run between $7 million and $9 million. Obviously the PGA Tour has lots of money to throw around that kind of cash for a succession of redos.

There is also talk that Arnold Palmer wants his name taken off the project the changes have been so severe. If that happens, then will they also rename the road leading into TPC-Boston, which I believe is Arnold Palmer Drive.


Anthony




Dan Herrmann

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Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2007, 04:33:05 PM »
Any influence on the input from Brad Faxon?

(By the way, I think Gil is one of the nicest people I've ever met - pure class, and I'm proud to know him)

Mike Sweeney

Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2007, 06:11:32 AM »
http://www.bunkershot.com/2007/viewstory.cfm?ID=4609

Just curious if anyone has played it recently. Is it TPC, Palmer or Gil Hanse now?

wsmorrison

Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2007, 07:18:05 AM »
I played golf with Gil a few months back and I believe he mentioned that Palmer wanted his name taken off the architectural attribution for the TPC in Boston.  At the time, Gil didn't think there was a majority of his work on the course (I think this will change over time) and he wasn't comfortable if he were to be given design attribution.

Brad Tufts

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Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2007, 09:48:33 AM »
Hi Guys,

I played the course about a month ago...the course would be a Palmer/TPC routing, but definately a Hanse course now.

It seems like there was a tight timeframe in completing the course, as there were a couple holes that Hanse did not have time to get to, and thus look almost the same as before.  Some of the greens went unchanged, but many also were totally redone.  Yardages are from the back, unless noted...

1:  360 yds...gentle par four to open, reworked fairway bunkers on right...changed front bunkers to one large deep bunker with uneven edges, and a couple turf islands.

2:  540 yds...totally redid right fairway bunkers, they look like a bit of a waste area now tying them to the woods on the right.  The green appeared unchanged over the wetlands.

3:  190 yds...front bunkers reworked...many trees cleared out around the green, a stone wall added (the "New England touch"), and fescue planted behind the green for old-style look.

4:  305 or 330 yds...totally redone.  This hole used to be a boring dogleg right of 440, now it's a reachable par 4 with several bunkers and fairway moguls right in the run-up area.  The green is fronted by a huge deep bunker, and the green is pushed up about 6 feet, and is very wide but shallow.  Look for a front pin to tempt, confuse, and destroy a couple pros during the DB.

5:  410 yds...new tee weakens the turn in the dogleg (good thing), reworked fairway bunkers on the left, the two tiered green seemed to be the same.

6:  450 yds....reworked greenside bunkers, especially on the left, tying the greensite in with some mounds and fescue off to the left.  The green seemed to be the same, although I could be wrong on that one.

7:  550 yds....uphill par 5 remains generally the same, but with an added twist.  The fairway bunkers at 130 yards are gone, replaced by a huge "Hell's half-acre" bunker.  The bunker stretches the entire width of the fairway, is probably 40 yards from front to back, and the hole gains about 20 feet in elevation in clearing the hazard, creating a generally blind third after a layup.  The green looked like the same multi-tiered affair as before, although there seemed to be some new grass bunkers long and right of it.

8:  215 yds....totally reworked green.  There was minimal visibility here, as the green sat so low the player couldn't see much of it from the tee.  Now it ties in nicely with a small hill to the left, it banked towards the tee to catch shots and provide a look, and the front bunkers are new.

9:  380 or 460 from where the pros will be...dogleg right is same from tee to green, with some fescue added in the left rough.  The green is totally different here, as it's now a punchbowl.  While not severe at all, the approach is pretty much completely blind over a bunker in the hillock 30 yds short.

10:  420 yds...same hole pretty much.

11:  215 yds...uphill par 3 with the same 2-tiered green, but with the left surrounds and front bunkers reworked.  The player can now go left and kick a tee shot onto the green, and the several fronting bunkers are now one huge bunker that takes up the entire upslope to the green.

12:  460 yds...downhill par four that remains basically unchanged, save for a new fairway bunker not really in play in the right rough.  This green with the right half over a hazard is still very severe.

13:  375 or 470 from the way backs...gentle dogleg right, basically unchanged but several rock outcroppings were either added or uncovered.  The green was reworked slightly, perhaps to make the green fit the long approaches when playing from the 470 tees.

14:  515 yds...this hole is a par 4 in the DB.  Hanse cleared many trees here on the left, tempting the player to skirt that side.  Awaiting those who go left are several new fairway bunkers, a few boulders, and lots of tall fescue.  The green has been redone and surrounded by bunkers, one guarding the front, but about 30 yards short.

15:  420 yds...Totally redone, and great.  Mounds have been added, rocks uncovered, and fescue planted on the edges.  There is now a slope in the fairway that the tee shot must avoid to get a free look at the classic-looking pushed up green.  The putting surface is a large tabletop with a new deep bunker to the right, and an interesting chipping swale to the left.  A great aesthetic change.

16:  165 yds...new tees took about 40 yards off this par 3 played to a peninsula green jutting out into a pond.  The green was reworked into a multi-tiered surface to test the short iron shots that now will be hit from the shorter tees.

17:  415 yds...totally new hole at 17.  Still a dogleg right, the fairway goes straight on for about 290 yards.  New mounds covered in fescue create almost a barrier to a lower fairway, but with a 20-yd wide gap where a draw could run down 15 vertical feet to the fairway below.  The effect is like a mini-golf hole where you putt into one hole, and look over the edge to see the ball coming out on another part of the carpet a few feet away and below you.  From here, the green is an island in deep rough and severely sloped.  In between are several waste bunkers and fescue to catch those that think they can bomb over the trees to the green, doable, but probably a 330-yd carry.

18:  540 yds.  The finishing par 5 has been reworked as well.  No longer is the hole just a bomb-and-iron to the finish.  The tees have been moved left, straightening the hole.  The fairway has been widened, and three fairway bunkers have been installed, two surrounded by fairway.  The first is a 240-yd carry, the second a 260-yd carry, and the third is about 310 from the tee.  They are oriented starting in the middle of the fairway, diagonally toward the right, where the long-hitter would try to cut off yardage.  Now the pros will have to decide which bunker they will take on.  Also added in the second shot landing area is a small pot bunker smack in the middle, which will complicate the previously simple layup.  The green has been slightly redone as well, now sloping harder from back to front.  No longer will the pros be able to blast long and have an easy chip back, as the green now runs hard towards deep rough and the hazard in front of the green.

The DB tournament should be VERY interesting to watch, as the pros will have to contend with some wild areas and wacky lies if they hit it sideways.  Early reviews from some of the pros have been positive, but there are bound to be a couple who hate the quirk.  I actually have at home the Hanse-written guide to the changes, so I can look at that and update my thoughts above.  Any questions??

-Brad
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 09:49:51 AM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Brad Tufts

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Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2007, 09:20:46 AM »
After all that typing....it gets one bump...
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Mike Sweeney

Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2007, 11:35:46 AM »
After all that typing....it gets one bump...

Next time bring Moore along for pictures!  ;)

How far is Boston GC from TPC Boston, and in the old 10 round split between TPC Boston and Boston GC, how would you split?


Brad Tufts

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Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2007, 09:00:26 PM »
Yeah didn't bring the camera that day....and I haven't been to Boston Golf Club yet, but from pics I bet I will say 6-4 or 7-3 in favor if BGC after I play it.  I love the quirky stuff.  TPC Boston is much better than it was, but it's still a tour venue.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Willie_Dow

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Re:Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2007, 09:48:00 AM »
Brad - Thanks a bunch for that writeup.  It forced my lousey hip to walk around TPC Boston yesterday.

Who ever said Hanse couldn't finish a job in a remarkably on time fashion should go to Norton, MA.

It is one of his greatest works, very close to his job at Boston Golf Club in Hingham.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Hanse's work at TPC Boston
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2009, 05:28:56 PM »
Anybody play it recently ? Still think this looks like a fun course.

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