London variety (?)

[Jason McNamara]

This is sort of an offshoot from Scott Warren's thread about all the great Surrey courses in one small area.

Sean Arble commented the Surrey courses are somewhat of a kind:  "they may start to blend together as several of the courses don't really distinguish themselves from each other."  Not a shock considering their proximity to one another.

To what extent is that true of London in general?  I know the Addington is pretty much sui generis, but what about Coombe Hill, and Orsett, Knole Park, Sandy Lodge, Reigate Heath, Blackmoor, etc.?  I expect the 3 area bunkerless courses to stand out a bit more*, the newer Grove course hasn't looked very traditional from what little I have seen...

How many days can one play in London before hitting the wall?  (If this is Thursday, this must be N course.)

Jason

* I realize putting Piltdown in "London" is a bit of a stretch (RAF and Berkhamsted too, for that matter), but for the sake of discussion....

[Tony_Muldoon]

Thanks Jason, I saw that comment and wanted to shout.


Yes if you sequentially played Sunningdale x2, Berkshire x 2, Swinley, the three W's you might think is that all there is?  

But alternate them with
Addington - one of a kind
Stockley Park - a good RTJ, cheap and accessible.
Orsett - have you played it? well out of the way.
Walton Heath x 2- more open, flatter and old fashioned than the one's above
Kent Links courses. RSG, Deal, Princes. A really significant proportion of the membership of each is London based.
Wentworth – OK I’m a hypocrite but it’s different to the Heathland tracks.
Chart Hills – Faldo Smyers
The Grove – Kyle Philips although I don’t know many that have a lot of love for it.
RAF - no bunkers. It was dropped as yesterday's venue in favour of Pulborough.

That’s at least 14 days of quality and varied golf in anyone’s book. Hard to beat in world terms.  I bet most tourists tick a couple of London boxes and then move on.

PS  I have also played Pennard, Burnham, Birkdale, and Hunstanton as day trips from London, by car.  with 3 airports and ferries I could easily include RCD, Portmarnock, Prestwick, East Lothian, Aberdeen, Le Touquet and many others. I'm working on a day trip to Macrihanish.

[Scott Warren]

I haven't played enough London tracks to say that Sean is wrong or right, but by the time the sun sets on Thursday I will have played West Sussex, Batchworth Park, Royal Wimbledon and Walton Heath ios the space of five days. I'll report back on whether I am feeling a bit "samey" then.

[Sean_A]

Thanks Jason, I saw that comment and wanted to shout.


Yes if you sequentially played Sunningdale x2, Berkshire x 2, Swinley, the three W's you might think is that all there is?  

But alternate them with
Addington - one of a kind
Stockley Park - a good RTJ, cheap and accessible.
Orsett - have you played it? well out of the way.
Walton Heath x 2- more open, flatter and old fashioned than the one's above
Kent Links courses. RSG, Deal, Princes. A really significant proportion of the membership of each is London based.
Wentworth – OK I’m a hypocrite but it’s different to the Heathland tracks.
Chart Hills – Faldo Smyers
The Grove – Kyle Philips although I don’t know many that have a lot of love for it.
RAF - no bunkers. It was dropped as yesterday's venue in favour of Pulborough.

That’s at least 14 days of quality and varied golf in anyone’s book. Hard to beat in world terms.  I bet most tourists tick a couple of London boxes and then move on.

PS  I have also played Pennard, Burnham, Birkdale, and Hunstanton as day trips from London, by car.  with 3 airports and ferries I could easily include RCD, Portmarnock, Prestwick, East Lothian, Aberdeen, Le Touquet and many others. I'm working on a day trip to Macrihanish.

Tony

You have considerably widened the zone I wrote of.  My initial comments were directed at the tourista trail of Surrey and hinting how folks would miss out if they didn't push the boundaries a bit. 

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

Thanks Jason, I saw that comment and wanted to shout.


Yes if you sequentially played Sunningdale x2, Berkshire x 2, Swinley, the three W's you might think is that all there is?  

But alternate them with
Addington - one of a kind
Stockley Park - a good RTJ, cheap and accessible.
Orsett - have you played it? well out of the way.
Walton Heath x 2- more open, flatter and old fashioned than the one's above
Kent Links courses. RSG, Deal, Princes. A really significant proportion of the membership of each is London based.
Wentworth – OK I’m a hypocrite but it’s different to the Heathland tracks.
Chart Hills – Faldo Smyers
The Grove – Kyle Philips although I don’t know many that have a lot of love for it.
RAF - no bunkers. It was dropped as yesterday's venue in favour of Pulborough.

That’s at least 14 days of quality and varied golf in anyone’s book. Hard to beat in world terms.  I bet most tourists tick a couple of London boxes and then move on.

PS  I have also played Pennard, Burnham, Birkdale, and Hunstanton as day trips from London, by car.  with 3 airports and ferries I could easily include RCD, Portmarnock, Prestwick, East Lothian, Aberdeen, Le Touquet and many others. I'm working on a day trip to Macrihanish.

Tony

You have considerably widened the zone I wrote of.  My initial comments were directed at the tourista trail of Surrey and hinting how folks would miss out if they didn't push the boundaries a bit. 

Ciao

I just checked and apparently Macrihanish is not in Surrey, and I hope everyone who read your initial post was also a geographer.    It was Jason who expanded it to London, which in golf terms is much harder to define. However for the average tourist Surrey/Berkshire is London and my point is it’s not hard to add variety. Anyways with several top 100 OFFICIAL courses to play most people won't care if they offer all the varieties of golf that are possible. On first trip to the Heathlands it would be like a first trip playing links land, the courses might blend in the memory but the impression will stil be strong and the desire to return again and again will be set. I will go as far as to say that London (if not surrey alone) offers more interesting variety than any other base in the world. 

[Scott Warren]

So what would be the best itinerary to show a London visitor the variety that exists in the heathlands of Surrey/Berks/Sussex?

Say 3 days of golf, and the golfer in question refuses to spend more than 100 quid on a round.

If it's high summer, you could do a day consisting of West Sussex/The Addington and another of New Zealand/Woking. What's a day ticket at Sunningdale cost?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Good G-d, how can it be no one's mentioned St George's Hill?

Sean does make a good point about the ills of confining oneself to the Stockbroker Belt, even if I disagree with his rationale.  Many's the time a City exec cast a puzzled glance at hearing I was training down to...East Croyden.

[Sean_A]

Thanks Jason, I saw that comment and wanted to shout.


Yes if you sequentially played Sunningdale x2, Berkshire x 2, Swinley, the three W's you might think is that all there is?  

But alternate them with
Addington - one of a kind
Stockley Park - a good RTJ, cheap and accessible.
Orsett - have you played it? well out of the way.
Walton Heath x 2- more open, flatter and old fashioned than the one's above
Kent Links courses. RSG, Deal, Princes. A really significant proportion of the membership of each is London based.
Wentworth – OK I’m a hypocrite but it’s different to the Heathland tracks.
Chart Hills – Faldo Smyers
The Grove – Kyle Philips although I don’t know many that have a lot of love for it.
RAF - no bunkers. It was dropped as yesterday's venue in favour of Pulborough.

That’s at least 14 days of quality and varied golf in anyone’s book. Hard to beat in world terms.  I bet most tourists tick a couple of London boxes and then move on.

PS  I have also played Pennard, Burnham, Birkdale, and Hunstanton as day trips from London, by car.  with 3 airports and ferries I could easily include RCD, Portmarnock, Prestwick, East Lothian, Aberdeen, Le Touquet and many others. I'm working on a day trip to Macrihanish.

Tony

You have considerably widened the zone I wrote of.  My initial comments were directed at the tourista trail of Surrey and hinting how folks would miss out if they didn't push the boundaries a bit.  

Ciao

I just checked and apparently Macrihanish is not in Surrey, and I hope everyone who read your initial post was also a geographer.    It was Jason who expanded it to London, which in golf terms is much harder to define. However for the average tourist Surrey/Berkshire is London and my point is it’s not hard to add variety. Anyways with several top 100 OFFICIAL courses to play most people won't care if they offer all the varieties of golf that are possible. On first trip to the Heathlands it would be like a first trip playing links land, the courses might blend in the memory but the impression will stil be strong and the desire to return again and again will be set. I will go as far as to say that London (if not surrey alone) offers more interesting variety than any other base in the world.  

Tony

I would probably agree with you.  I don't think there is a city on earth that competes with London as a centre of operations for high quality, diversity and accessibility - plus the city is not a bad place at all.  That said, it does some very serious excursions from Surrey and Berkshire.  I am not trying to knock the big guns of Surrey, just pointing out that some of what made Surrey golf justly famous perhaps held it back from bigger and better things.  So may courses were designed by the same click in the same time period that similar themes are easily spotted.  It is note worthy that Fowler has the biggest diversity between The Berkshire and Walton Heath - I believe because he stuck to his guns about the land dictating the golf.  Well that and Simpson probably had a lot to do with the Berkshire - tee hee.  

Scott

I would absolutely point visitors to Addington amd Woking.  Your price limit precludes St Georges Hill, so I would probably opt for West Sussex, possibly Worplesdon or New New Zealand. 

Ciao

[Jason McNamara]

Note:  Sean, I took your comments directly from the other thread, yet if I in any way misrepresented your position, that is certainly not my intent - please let me know.
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Some day ticket (36 hole) prices:

Walton Heath    140
St. George's Hill   145
Sunningdale   265
Berkshire           125

(Wentworth doesn't offer such)
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Obviously I expect some similarity amongst the string from the Berkshire to Wentworth.  I expect the 3 Ws to be fairly similar:  they occupy 3 corners of a single intersection!

Tony, while seriously warping the standard definition of day trip(!), is taking the approach I'd hoped.  Over here in the States we do not always get the picture that London is hard to define.  I knew the Addington would be different, as well as RAF, but definitely appreciate the feedback on the others.  Are there different similarities that courses in other areas share?  (Obviously those in Sandwich / Deal - don't count those, Tony!)

[Mark Pearce]

Whilst Surrey/Berkshire obviously have the heathland courses it's wrong to suggest that nowhere else around London has decent golf.  Whilst not hitting the heights of the best heathland courses Sandy Lodge, Moor Park and Denham are all noteworthy of courses I have played, then there is the Grove, the London Club, Royal Mid-Surrey, Chart Hills, Stockley Park and the Addington.  There's a recent thread on Royal Wimbledon.  Huntercombe isn't a lot further out.  Nor is Woburn.  Or Berkhamsted.

I think there's plenty of variety.  The suggestion that it would all merge into one after a while is a bit like suggesting that playing golf in Fife would all merge into one.  It'll happen but it'll take more golf than you're realistically going to play before it does.

[Jason McNamara]

Whilst not hitting the heights of the best heathland courses Sandy Lodge, Moor Park and Denham are all noteworthy of courses I have played, then there is the Grove,   [...]

Mark, is there a similarly amongst the clubs generally in that area?  Are those courses generally different from the Surrey big shots, or similar and very good... but not great?  Thanks.