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Scott Warren

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Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« on: August 31, 2009, 04:35:14 PM »
I was fortunate to get a look at Batchworth Park today, a relatively new Dave Thomas course near Rickmansowrth - south of Watford - in a green belt that also houses Moor Park GC, Rickmansworth GC and a new as-yet-unnamed pay for play course.

I am also told Seve, health willing, is lined up to re-design Ruislip GC, about 10mins to the south. He is already responsible for The Shire, near Barnet in North London.

But back to Batchworth. It's the jewel in the crown of Crown Golf, and a private members club that accepts no unacompanied visitor play. It's sole mention on GCA so far seems to be in the Courses Worth Grovelling To Play thread, and after spending an afternoon there, I'd say it's probably not worth grovelling to play, but it is certainly worth keeping the name in your head, so when you come across a member, you can be ready to accept an invitation to check it out.

I was really impressed and quite surprised by the course. There are some seriously cool golf holes out there. Located on a street named Batchworth Hill, you expect some undulating terrain, and that's exactly what is serves up. But not only does is run along and between the ridges and valleys, holes like 3, 4, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 17 are routed over the hills - which are rally steep in sections. A few holes also also boast pretty awesome views.

My one complaint might be that the bunkers are over-countoured, but unlike the Thomas course I played last weekend (Traditions GC in Surrey), the back edges aren't covered in rough, so a ball approaching at any decent pace will still find the sand. What I didn't like that the mounding behind many bunkers meant you couldn't see them from either the tee or the fairway as you approach. Not only would the strategy be a bit clearer, the aesthetics would be enhanced.

It's not overpowered yet by trees, and here's hoping the club management strops the trees encroaching, because the feeling of space is one of the great joys of the course. It marries parkland, downland and heathland features nicely, and while it definitely feels "new", I don't mean that in a bad way.

The par 5s are standouts. The two on the front are quite short (I hit a 5i and 7i for my second shots), but on the back, both measure over 550yds (I hit a full 7i and a full PW for my third shots). They sit on some of the most interesting terrain, which is utilised well.

The short par fours also stand out as quite memorable. 2, 4, 8, 10 and 17 all reward a perfectly-struck driver, but also give some love to the canny golfer who hits his long iron or hybrid into the right position.

Pics to come in next thread.

Scott Warren

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Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 05:43:33 PM »
A cavernous bunker short-right of the 2nd green makes any approach that follows a drive leaked right quite rough to a green angling 45 degrees from front left to back right.


The 3rd is a par four that plays to the middle plateau off the tee, which looks only very short from the tee, but stretches 50m, and from which a 200 yard second can be played. Alternately, blast a drive over the plateau and have a shorter, but blind, second from about 130 yards out.


The short drop shot par three 4th has bunkers looking on three sides.



The driveable par four 5th allows a simple iron tee shot to a wide fairway, but from 70-100 yards short, the green is blind.



The 7th is a par five that bends about 70 degrees, allowing a ballsy tee shot that cuts he dogleg and allows an 80 yard second if you get it right. The inside of this hole is one of the few areas on the course that could do with some trees to blovk that option and force a shaped tee shot if the golfer wants a short second. This picture is from 170 yards out, where a brave but safe drive ends up.


The par four 7th. A brave drive over the left fairway trap gives the easy approach to a two-tiered green that is significantly higher on the left than the right.


The par five 9th features a semi-blind second and a major two-tiered (low front, high back) green.


The 13th is the first of back to back par fives, at 170 yards out, the land falls away, before rising steeply at the 80 yard zone to the skyline green set in the side of the hill.



The par four 16th sees most golfers hit a long iron or hybrid short of the lake that encroaches from the right, before pitching a shot iron into he heavily contoured green. It would perhaps play better from the ladies tee at 300 yards, where the lake could be flown with a 230-yard carry. As it stands the strategy off the tee is quite one-dimensional. But still a fun hole, as the closer you drive to the water, the better your angle in.


The 17th is also reachable, though a bunker short left means the blast is not without risk. A high lip on the trap means any drive to the left will face a tricky blind pitch.


Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 06:39:59 PM »
Scott - I think this course basically needs the bunkers redoing, the visbilty and atmosphere of them is not good. I did look at it once a few years ago they were planning another nine, dont know what happened to it.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Scott Warren

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Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2009, 06:42:34 PM »
Adrian, that may well be on the land that now houses the pay and play nine-holer I mentioned above. The site borders Batchworth Park's fifth hole.

The more I look at the pics I took and think about it, the more I think the bunkering is holding it back.

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 07:10:30 PM »
Adrian, that may well be on the land that now houses the pay and play nine-holer I mentioned above. The site borders Batchworth Park's fifth hole.

The more I look at the pics I took and think about it, the more I think the bunkering is holding it back.
I'll check that out on google Scott. The bunkers in many instances could be improved by recutting them higher so the sand gets flashed up higher.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Brian Phillips

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Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2009, 02:36:15 AM »
Scott - I think this course basically needs the bunkers redoing, the visbilty and atmosphere of them is not good. I did look at it once a few years ago they were planning another nine, dont know what happened to it.
Adrian,

The Dave Thomas team do all their bunkers like that.  I have played about 3 of their course, 1 in China and 2 in Britain and that is the way they design them.
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

James Boon

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Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 03:41:57 AM »
But back to Batchworth. It's the jewel in the crown of Crown Golf, and a private members club that accepts no unacompanied visitor play. It's sole mention on GCA so far seems to be in the Courses Worth Grovelling To Play thread, and after spending an afternoon there, I'd say it's probably not worth grovelling to play, but it is certainly worth keeping the name in your head, so when you come across a member, you can be ready to accept an invitation to check it out.

Scott,

Thanks for the pics, but looking at both those and a quick view of the Google aerial, I'm not quite sure why anyone would grovel to play the course? It honestly doesn't look anything special, but then I've felt pretty much the same about most Dave Thomas courses I've seen?

I know the grovelling comment wasnt yours, but what am I missing?

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 03:56:01 AM »
Scott - I think this course basically needs the bunkers redoing, the visbilty and atmosphere of them is not good. I did look at it once a few years ago they were planning another nine, dont know what happened to it.
Adrian,

The Dave Thomas team do all their bunkers like that.  I have played about 3 of their course, 1 in China and 2 in Britain and that is the way they design them.
Brian - Perhaps thats the way to do um then.  ;D
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Brian Phillips

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Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2009, 04:00:49 AM »
I did not say that... ;)
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2009, 08:42:28 AM »
When I went on google yesteray the imagery is obviously a bit out of date but you can see the ongoing construction of the newer nine. I also shuffled around and searched and spotted 1 golf hole that puzzled me.... If you search for The Grove, you will see what I mean..
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Niall C

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Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2009, 02:15:34 PM »
Scott - I think this course basically needs the bunkers redoing, the visbilty and atmosphere of them is not good. I did look at it once a few years ago they were planning another nine, dont know what happened to it.
Adrian,

The Dave Thomas team do all their bunkers like that.  I have played about 3 of their course, 1 in China and 2 in Britain and that is the way they design them.

Brian

Have you played Spey Valley at Aviemore ? Its a Dave Thomas design, although I think his son is doing most of the design work now. It has a mix of the type of bunkering that you see here and as well as more natural looking sand faced bunkers. In some respects it looks a bit schitzophrenic but some of the green complexes are really good with some really nice contours merging into the surrounds.

Don't know if you can find a link to the course.

Niall

Jason McNamara

Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2009, 06:40:03 PM »
It's part of some resort, so the golf course is somewhat of an add-on, and the hotel site doesn't really have any photos.

Paul_Turner

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Re: Batchworth Park - Dave Thomas in North London PICS
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2009, 07:18:34 PM »
I bet the members of Betchworth Park were ecstatic when this course opened.
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