[Craig Sweet]

This week the women are playing the Safeway Classic at Pumpkin Ridge and in pretournament interviews they have been asking the players what they thought of playing three par 5 holes in a row....are they playing a par 4 as a par 5 this week, or do they really have three par 5's in a row at Pumpkin Ridge?

[Jeff_Brauer]

When not playing well, I sometimes feel as if every course has 18 consecutive par 5 holes.....broken only by the occaisional par 6.

[John Kirk]

Hi Craig,

#9 at Ghost Creek is a 467 (443 from the blues) yard par 4 with trouble everywhere.  When the Nike Tour championship was held here in 1993 and 1994, it was the toughest hole versus par on the Nike Tour each year.

It's somewhat unsatisfactory as a par 5, since the fairway narrows down to 20-30 yards for the last 80-100 yards to the green.  In my opinion, #9, though compelling in its difficulty to the best players, is the least sound design on this otherwise consistently solid course.  The cart path inhabits the bailout area right of the green (away from the large pond), and can impact play.  Also, power hitters can eliminate much of the trouble by playing into the first fairway, though I doubt they will during the tournament.

#8 is a great short par 5 when played from the 498 box, and #10 is an option laden short par 5 at 492.  Both #8 and #10 have very small greens.  Even though I typically play #9 at 443, my average score on the three holes are as follows:

#8:  4.93
#9:  5.07
#10:  4.88

I think the LPGA professionals will have an easier time with #9 than I do, since they hit it so straight.  We'll see.

Pumpkin Ridge was originally conceived to hold tournaments on the East course (Ghost Creek), while leaving the members to play the West.  It's set up that way this week, and it just looks terrific.  The neighboring Cropp farm in North Plains is used for parking.  The mounding around the back nine offers great viewing and an intimate feel. Ghost Creek has been groomed into its best condition in years, with splotchy, inconsistent three inch rough and very smooth greens.  I'm sure the pros will enjoy their week here.

[Jeff Doerr]

John and all,

I used to play a bunch at Ghost in the mid 90s. I was playing some of my best golf and pushed my index into the 4s. Then I had my "these guys are good moment..." I think David Berganio was in the threesome I was watching at the 9th at the Nike Tour Championship in 94 or 95 (Duval was in the field). Two of the 3 hit good deep drives. One went right and almost got in the creek, the ball was hanging on the bank. He got got down in the creek and played his shot onto the green about 20 feet away. The other two hit their approaches just inside that. They had the hole surrounded...and of course they all made their putts! I just shook my head, nine is a VERY hard par 4 from any tees, let alone the tips.

Cheers, Jeff

[Mike Hendren]

Langford's Gatlinburg (TN) Country Club.  9, 10 & 11.  Relatively short but routed through extremely tight valleys.  Designed late in his career (1950's) but since ruined I hear.  

Now known as Gatlinburg Municipal, here's a photo from the lower tee at the 10th.

         

Mike

[Pete_Pittock]

Hopefully the interviewers will ask players how they like it and how it affects strategy if at all.

According to the daily rag the short par four 17th hole will play at 334, 281 and 230.

[James Boon]

I've only ever seen 3 par 5s in a row once, at Sutton Coldfield near Birmingham, a little known Alister MacKenzie course.

5th 482yds
6th 520yds
7th 478yds

So not all 600 yard monsters but its says par 5 on the card never the less!

The way the course is laid out, the holes at start, turn and finish all tend to be a bit shorter and in amongst the trees of Sutton Park, before the course stretches its legs into the open heathland, so this was obviously the best opportunity the lay out the longer holes?

Cheers,

James

[JohnV]

Interesting that they are doing this, but it makes #9 a driver hole for most of the ladies.  From further up, they would be laying up off the tee because of creek which crosses the fairway and the lake and it still would become out of reach for some of them.  The only other choice is to call it a par 4 and play it from pretty far back which is what the USGA would do.  Of course, in the long run, par doesn't matter so who really cares.  They are just playing it as a longer hole.

[Pete_Pittock]

Back from the Creek. I watched a spectator take one in the head on the fly off the 9th tee. For those long enough off th tee it seems that aiming at the 1st fairway is the play to get a better angle into the green. Tees were back on 17 all laid up short of the creek, low scoring in the morning wave. Light rain started about 2pm. USAF Thunderbirds practicing for airshow.

[John Kirk]

In my short time observing hole #9, I thought it wasn't working very well as a par 5, an would work better as a 410 yard par 4.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

The only time I played 3 par 5's in a row is when I teed off on the back of Baltusrol (Lower).  #17, #18 and #1 are all par 5's.  #1 is changed to a par 4 for professional tournaments.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Inwood has holes 3,4,5 as par 5's. 

[Garland Bayley]

I was just looking at the leaderboard. Christina Kim is 9 under par on 8, 9, 10, which is average birdie through all rounds. By contrast, big hitting U No Hu is only 3 under on those holes.

[Craig Sweet]

Ah yes...but who finished higher?

[Garland Bayley]

U No Hu finished higher, because Kim finished -9 exactly her score for the tournament on 8, 9, and 10.

[Craig Sweet]

No Hu finished higher, because Kim finished -9 exactly her score for the tournament on 8, 9, and 10./quote][/b]

I smell conspiracy....

[John Handley]

Walden on Lake Conroe outside of Houston has 3 par 5's in a row.  Numbers 9, 10, and 11.  Bruce Devlin and Robert Von Hagge designed the course.  It is a wonderful golf course.  If you are ever up in north Houston, it's worth the drive.

Personally I think it's lame that the LPGA played #9 at Ghost Creek as a par 5.  I am a member at Pumpkin Ridge and have played the course many, many times.  #9 is a great par 4 while #10 and #8 are not difficult par 5's.  I would have had them play from tees further forward and keep it a par 4.

[Pete_Pittock]

Based on the short time I was on #9 if they had moved up to the next set of tees and played it as a par four the majority of the field would not play the hole as designed, instead choosing to play into the 10th fairway, causing both a safety and a pace of play issue.

[Rob Rigg]

I think they should build a couple tees behind the 8th green at Ghost (not sure if they own the land).

This would make the 9th a real par five with a narrowing landing area into the green. The forward tees could be used for the ladies, with the whites only pushing back slightly but hopefully taking the 1st fairway out of play as a bail out. From a tee 40 yards back, the blues/black would play as legit three shotters, especially into the prevailing wind.

Still not a perfect hole but better? A couple of the guys I played with on Monday liked the idea. Currently, I am not a fan of the hole and think it is much better to rip a drive onto 1, or even into the mounds, for a better angle on the approach.

Push the tees up on 10 and make it a par four (it's a par 4.5 anyways) - I was driver, 7 iron into the green on Monday with a strong tailwind. It is usually driver, hybrid to 5 iron after a decent drive.

That would mean back to back par 5s to close the front nine, which is fine by me.

The 8th is a fantastic hole - hopefully the ladies dug it as well - most of them, that I saw, were short but having a go at it.

[Kalen Braley]

With the change in the routing at Indian Canyon, it now has 3 par 5's in a row.

#9 - 11 which used to be #18, 1, and 2.

[Garland Bayley]

With the change in the routing at Indian Canyon, it now has 3 par 5's in a row.

#9 - 11 which used to be #18, 1, and 2.

Except that #10 is on the card as a par 4. I hit driver, 8 iron. In recent years I have never hit anything less that driver, 6 iron on a par 5, and that was the one time I reached a down slope that I never reach. Otherwise the same hole is driver, 5 wood for me.

[Dan Kelly]

When not playing well, I sometimes feel as if every course has 18 consecutive par 5 holes.....broken only by the occaisional par 6.

I'm remembering a course built (or planned) called, I think, Tri-Par, that was designed to be played at anywhere from par-54 (18 3s) to par-90 (18 5s).

Anyone know what, if anything, came of that?

(As for three consecutive 5s: Town and Country Club in St. Paul, Minnesota's oldest course [as far as I know], has par-5s at 15, 16, and 17. I think it was Tom Lehman who blew a big Minnesota tournament, years ago, by making a 10 at No. 16 -- after being just off the green in 2? I'll have to look that up.)

[JohnV]

For those long enough off th tee it seems that aiming at the 1st fairway is the play to get a better angle into the green.

It always was as long as the 1st fairway was clear.

[Garland Bayley]

When not playing well, I sometimes feel as if every course has 18 consecutive par 5 holes.....broken only by the occaisional par 6.

I'm remembering a course built (or planned) called, I think, Tri-Par, that was designed to be played at anywhere from par-54 (18 3s) to par-90 (18 5s).
...

There is a John Daly signature in NoCal that opened in the last few years that can have every hole stretched to par 5 making it a par 90.

[Jay Flemma]

Inwood has holes 3,4,5 as par 5's. 

Exactly...they are followed by back to back par-3s.  That's a cool routing.

Good course, Inwood.  Why don't we talk more about it here?

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