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Phil_the_Author

Tom,

Actually that was part of the point I was trying to make, that it has always been so. I think from the first time a hickory hit a featherie someone was saying that the hole they were playing was good but couild be a lot better if...

George Pazin

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George

We know you are a math genius, as you tell us so every few years ;), but I am shocked :o that you have forgotten the difference between probability and actual outcome.  All handicap systems (GHIN, CONGU, etc.) are biased towards the lower handicap (which they should be, IMHO, to foster a desire for improvement) but this "bias" just means that in any one individual match the lower handicap player is more likely to win.  That's all.  In a stroke play field, however, given the greater spread of possible scores for higher handicap players, it is not at all surprising that an individual higher handicap player will win the event, given the laws of probability.

Rich

Can't ever recall saying I was or am a math genius (or even implying or alluding to that - I'm more than willing to admit I hit the wall in college and there were more than a few math geeks way beyond me), but I can honestly say I don't understand how your point in this post relates to what our previous exchange.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Rich Goodale

George

I was referring to your statement  "It also sounds like you feel the lower handicap should always win, but that's an argument for another day...".   Sorry for not waiting until another day, and sorry for the "math genius" phrasing.  I'll not use it again.

Rich

PS--I hate the word "always"....

Adam Clayman

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What's also interesting is how someone can find the right spot on a tough green and walk away thinking it's not so hard.
In other words, basing one's opinion on their infrequent play's outcome isn't an evaluation worth heeding.

I love the aspect of having a fine line that determines a balls finally resting place. If for no other reasons to hear the whimsical whine "I hit that shot perfectly". Obviously not.

"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

George Pazin

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Most players understand the concept of "short siding", but they simply don't take it to the next level of understanding - ie, knowing how the green contours dictate preferred chipping positions AS MUCH OR MORE THAN mere proximity to the pin (the proverbial "not much room to work with").  They fail to understand tthat sometimes, due to contours, the "short side" is actually the PREFERRED miss.  They fail to understand that sometimes, "safely on the dance floor" is far worse than a missed green to a good spot.

Another terrific post in its entirety. I chose this particular part because it reminded me of something I once read Pete Dye say. He said that sometimes he puts a greenside bunker on the lower side of a green, which would actually allow a relatively easy up and down, while missing on an unguarded side might result in a green running away from the golfer, and in some cases into that very bunker.

Good stuff. I think it's lost on most, particularly in cases like Adam notes, where limited play might leave a golfer with a mistaken, or at least not completely informed, notion.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

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