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Phil McDade

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Geography does Flossmoor Country Club few favors. The club, in Chicago’s south suburbs, sits right next door to Olympia Fields, one of the most prestigious golf clubs in the country, and host (on its North Course) to the 2003 U.S. Open. Flossmoor competes as a test of golf and golf architecture in the greater Chicago area with Donald Ross’ Beverly, Seth Raynor’s Chicago GC and Shoreacres, the Medinah complex, and a host of others.

But recent renovation work at Flossmoor, who’s founding in 1899 makes it one of the oldest clubs in the Chicago area, has improved and updated the course. Its routing, by the under-rated H.J. Tweedie, remains largely intact, and bunkering has been extensively reworked. In addition, the course has removed hundreds of trees, making for some arresting internal course views, widening playing corridors, and enhancing turf quality.

The course has hosted a number of significant tournaments and players. Chicago’s own Jock Hutchison won the PGA contested at Flossmoor in 1920, while both Bobby Jones and Francis Ouimet competed at the U.S. Amateur there in 1923 (Max Marston defeated both of the great amateurs on his way to the championship.)  Jones held the course record here for more than 50 years, his 67 in 1928 finally topped in 1984 with a 66. The club has also hosted a number of Western Opens, Western Amateurs, and Women’s Western Amateurs, along with the U.S. Women’s Amateur Championship in 1910.

At a recent outing at Flossmoor, Michigan-based architect Ray Hearn provided details of the three-year renovation that his firm oversaw. Hearn provided an in-depth overview of the renovation, including detailed explanations of the bunker work, tree clearance, and significant adjustments to several holes. A special highlight of the outing was the presence of Jim Tweedie, great-grandson of the course designer, who is traveling throughout the country playing his great-grandfather’s work. Special thanks to Terry Lavin and Greg Ohlendorf, who helped arrange the outing and served as enthusiastic and gracious hosts throughout the day. Thanks also to Hearn for providing the author of this thread a CD containing detailed descriptions of the renovation work at Flossmoor.

The course, on a mid-August day with light winds and temperatures in the mid-80s, played wonderfully fast and firm – about as fast and firm as one might expect an Upper Midwest course to play in summer. Players were confronted with firm fairways, greens that produced 10-foot (or higher) bounces on some approach shots, and a light green sheen on the greens that in a few spots was edging toward brown -- and were stimping at 12.8. Course superintendent Bob Lively, as well as a membership that encourages such conditions, deserve commendation for the set-up and course conditions.

Course details: The course from the tips plays at 7,136 yards, with a rating of 75.5 and slope of 144. From the white tees, it’s 6,764 yds/73.7/138, and from the green tees, it’s 6,437 yds/72.2/134. The course also has a set of gold and red tees. The course has both wooded and open areas, with the front nine playing over flatter terrain than the back nine. On to the course (yardages from tips, blue, and green tees):

The back of the driving range, right next to the putting green and pro shop, done in the same distinctive red brick as the clubhouse.


No. 1 (par 5, 499/488/480)

Both of Flossmoor’s nines open and close with par 5s – a routing scheme I’ve never encountered. The 1st hole is the shortest of the four par 5s. It doglegs gently to the right over flat, slightly downhill terrain. Long hitters who avoid the fairway bunkers left and right can get home in two.


Golfers immediately encounter some of Hearn’s bunker work on the 1st hole. Hearn said he redid the bunkers at Flossmoor in the style of George Thomas, the Golden Age architect best known for his acclaimed Los Angeles trio of Riveria, Bel Air, and Los Angeles-North. (I plan to post a separate thread soon that takes an in-depth look at Hearn’s bunker work at Flossmoor.) This bunker stretches for a good 30 yards along the left side of the fairway at the 1st.


The oval green of the 1st, tilted slightly from back to front. Part of Flossmoor’s appeal is its greens – simple, often small ovals, tilted one way or another, often merely an extension of the fairway. Ever tire of the big, dramatic, multi-contoured and tiered greens so in vogue today? Come to Flossmoor, where there is much to admire in the simplicity of these greens.


No. 2 (par 3, 213/195/180)

A long, slightly uphill par 3, with flanking bunkers. On a course with its share of small greens, this is one of the larger ones.


More of Hearn’s bunker work can be seen here, left of the 2nd hole green.


No. 3 (par 4, 434/420/400)

Called  ”Home,”  because in the first configuration of the course, this was the final hole (the clubhouse sited near this hole burned twice, both times due to lightning strikes, so the club decided to relocate the clubhouse to its present location between the two nines). The slightly downhill par 4 forces a decision on golfers – cross the creek (260 yards from the tips), or lay up?


The bridge that crosses the creek, meant to replicate the Swilcan Bridge at The Old Course in St. Andrews. For my tastes -- a small matter, admittedly – I wish the bridge had been done in the distinctive red brick of the clubhouse and pro shop.


Two looks at the 3rd green (from the right side and behind), and the ample closely mown areas surrounding it that provide plenty of options for players should they miss the green. After playing the 3rd, I was struck by the scores posted on the club’s website from U.S. Open qualifying contested here in 2003 – this somewhat docile-looking hole played as the toughest one on the course.



No. 4 (par 4, 331/319/314)

The shortest par 4 on the course, and one with some interesting options. Hearn extensively reworked this hole, removing a small hill that obstructed the view off the tee, cutting down some trees, expanding the fairway to the right, adding fairway bunkers, and providing the player with choices off the tee. The bold player can risk woods and OB left to attack the hole by going over two fairway bunkers left and attempt to get close to the green. The more conservative play is out to the right, into a broad and gathering valley. But it leaves the player with a somewhat blind approach into the green.


The flag is visible, but not the green itself, from the low point of the valley.


The 4th green – somewhat kidney-shaped, and not terribly deep. Our foursome, including Eric Terhorst (left) and Paul Richards, wondered why this back portion of the green had been left as fringe, and thought it might serve as a neat backboard portion of the green.


No. 5 (par 4, 445/431/395)

A par 4 that gently doglegs to the left, and gets narrower the farther one travels from the tee.


Making this hole all the more difficult is the tiny target at the end – the 5th green is the smallest on the course, perhaps as small as 2,500 square feet, tilted from back to front.  With trouble on both sides and a falloff in back, the green is best approached with a running shot that takes advantage of the open green in front. I can’t emphasize enough how fun it is to come upon this small green – Hearn and the club had the good sense to largely leave it alone (it was expanded a bit on the edges).


No. 6 (par 4, 434/422/366)

The fourth par 4 in a row, this plays similarly to #5, with the dogleg to the right instead. These two par 4s run alongside the eastern border of the course, and the fairway rough runs right up against the backyards of dozens of homes in the Flossmoor neighborhood.


Deep woods lurk not far from the right side of the fairway. Even with the tree clearance efforts at the club, there are still parts of Flossmoor that are heavily wooded.


The approach is over level land to another small, tear-drop shaped green.


No. 7 (par 3, 173,161/143)

A par 3 set in the woods over a pond, to a crowned greensite with some of the course’s deepest bunkers fronting the green left and right. This hole was added in 1915 by Chicago golf architect Harry Collis, the onetime pro and greenskeeper at Flossmoor, according to research by Dan Moore, who’s written about the course on the GCA Discussion Board. Not the longest par 3 at Flossmoor, but a tough hole; it played as the hardest of the course’s four par 3s during U.S. Open qualifying play in 2003.


On the walk between the 7th green and 8th tee sits this plaque; there is something special about walking the same ground as one of the game’s all-time greats.


No. 8 (par 4, 461/417/392)

A hole significantly re-designed by Hearn. The tee shot is out of a chute carved from the woods on each side to a broad fairway that bends to the right. Players need to avoid these rugged set of bunkers on the left edge of the fairway where it bends.


Aerials of the course prior to the renovation show a green located equidistant between two ponds, with bunkers on the left and right sides of the greens catching balls bound for water. Hearn thought the hole ought to have a bit more risk, and not ignore the water, so he expanded the green, moved it to the right, and expanded the fairway closer to the right-side pond. The result is an approach shot vaguely similar to the second shot of a classic cape hole, with trouble lurking for any shot pushed right. Hearn wisely left room between a fronting bunker left and the green for those choosing to stay far away from the water’s edge.


The 8th hole green. In the late-afternoon sun of our round, the green looked anything but lush – perfect for those who like their golf on the quick side.


No. 9 (par 5, 626/560/545)

A long hole over mostly level land.


Those going for the green in two have to contend with a small rise in the fairway that hides a green tucked near the woods.


Even from 200 yards away, the green remains blind. I’ve played several classic-era courses – James Foulis’ Bonnie Brook in Waukegan, IL, comes to mind – in which the architect uses subtle rises and depressions in the land to disguise and hide green sites. It’s a refreshing change of pace from modern designs, where architects often seem compelled to visually present all features of a hole to the player.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 09:34:44 AM by Phil McDade »

Phil McDade

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2009, 09:28:41 AM »
(Flossmoor continued)

No. 10 (par 5, 553/522/517)

The second consecutive par 5 winds its way through a series of fairway bunkers and moves slightly right. Paul Thomas contemplates his tee shot.


A look at the bunkering that must be navigated on the 10th.


From about 80 yards away, the terrain of the hole slopes toward the green – again, the green opening and firm conditions here encourage a running approach to the pin.


The green tilts noticeably from back to front. Three-putting this green is a real possibility for the approach left above the pin.


No. 11 (par 3, 213/195/180)

Spion Kop – one of the more notable holes at Flossmoor, and one of its best. Named for the hill that was the scene of an epic battle in the Boer Wars. The play is uphill to a green perched on top of a ridge line, with three traps on each side grabbing miss-hits. Hearn eliminated a small pot bunker short-left of the green to open up the approach.


Two looks at the green – it slopes from front to back, and is tilted from front-left to right-back. Tweedie’s wonderful use of the ridge line, the demanding tee shot, and the front-to-back tilted green make this my favorite hole at Flossmoor.



No. 12 (par 4, 417/408/400)
From here on in, the terrain at Flossmoor becomes much more rambunctious, and Tweedie took advantage of it to create several holes of interest. The carry over the creek on the 12th is not onerous – but the ridge line in the distance requires a carry of about 250 yards.


Balls not well-struck on the tee risk rolling back down the hill.


Even from 150 yards away, the green is blind; there is a large aiming pole, complete with a target, to help guide the player in the direction of the green.


A terrific little green that’s sloped from front to back, with no bunkers.


No. 13 (par 3, 135/122/106)
A completely new hole built by Hearn as part of the course renovation. The previous par 3 13th was a similarly short hole, but had two distinct problems – it ran in the opposite direction of the 12th, and parallel to it, with the result that errant tee balls from the 12th were landing on the 13th green or flying over it. In addition, the old 13th green was originally built with what Hearn described as an 8 percent slope and about 650 square feet of pinnable space. In addition, Hearn said the old 13th tee was artificially built up, with the look of an “ant hill.” Finally, the walkway between the 12th green and 13th tee is the location of the club’s “two-thirds” house – a small building stocked with beverages and light snacks. Hearn said the longtime tradition of players at Flossmoor stopping at the two-thirds house justified the somewhat longer green-to-tee walk to the new 13th. Hearn designed a hole with a three-level green, ample chipping areas front and left, and bunkers right and back. A fairly large green by Flossmoor standards, but one with significant slopes, it can be easy to hit and hard to putt. The two-thirds house can be seen center-right of this picture.



No. 14 (par 4, 366/334/328)
Another option-filled short par 4 significantly reworked by Hearn – from a tee just behind the creek, the player takes aim at a fairway dominated by a large oak tree. Players can go left, right, or over it. Photos of the course prior to the renovation show tree corridors forced the golfer to play left of the large oak tree. The fairway terrain is gathering toward the middle, but a series of fairway bunkers threaten the off-target drive.


Paul Thomas negotiates the 14th green, watched by Eric Terhorst (left) and Brad Swanson. The green – which sits right next door to busy Western Avenue --  is sloped sharply from back to front, and surrounded by traps.


No. 15 (par 4, 431/424/415)
The beginning of Flossmoor’s challenging finish. The tee shot must be slotted between woods to the right and another large oak tree left-center.


The hole turns gently to the left, with Butterfield Creek needing to be crossed to a green guarded left and right by bunkers.


No. 16 (par 4, 425/402/380)
A sloping hill covered with woods directs the player left on this fairway. Eleanor’s Teeth, the famed bunker fronting the 16th green, looms in the distance. (A sidenote – Flossmoor for the most part does a good job of hiding its cart paths. But this one, to the left of the 16th tee, distracts from one of the course’s most distinctive-looking holes.)


The approach shot at 16 – the green sits perched up on the hill, and it’s all carry if you want to avoid the perils of the famous trap.


Brad Swanson, meet Eleanor.


Another look at this unique bunker.


From the left side of the 16th fairway is this wonderful interior view of the course – under Hearn’s revamping, large numbers of trees were cleared between the 16th, 17th, and 18th fairways, and the grass mowed at fairway height. Golf in its very beginning was a much simpler game – a ball and club taken to a field. The notion of individual hole corridors came later in the game’s development. The open area featured on Flossmoor’s closing trio of holes harkens back to the game’s early roots.


No. 17 (par 4, 473/461/418)
Long regarded as one of the toughest par 4s in the Chicago area, and rightly so. From an elevated tee, the golfer is encouraged to take a healthy swing to a broad and beckoning fairway. It’s a long way to the creek in the distance; Greg Ohlendorf said few members playing from the whites even try to carry the creek (292 yards to the creek).


The green sits on top of the ridge – even with a healthy drive of, say, 275 yards, the player is left with a long and sharply uphill second shot.


Another look at the ridge that must be carried to get to the green. A solid, half-par hole.


No. 18 (par 5, 533/505/495)
With woods hard left, the golfer on the tee at the home hole must cross the creek and then negotiate several fairway bunkers dotting the right side of the fairway. A solid drive will give the golfer an opportunity to get home in two, to a green perched upon the same shelf as the 16th green. The beautiful red-brick clubhouse looms in the distance.


The approach to 18.


A shorter approach to 18.


The green at 18, which runs off toward the backside.


Sunset at the 18th, from the back porch of the clubhouse.


It’s perhaps understandable that Flossmoor Country Club gets overlooked in the Chicago area; it’s a golf town rich with courses that are among the more notable in the country. But it’s a demanding test with a very solid routing by Tweedie that’s stood up for more than a century. Hearn’s renovation work has clearly improved the course. Golfers with the opportunity to play Flossmoor shouldn’t pass up the chance.

David Stamm

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 10:42:12 AM »
Thanks, Phil. Very good presentation. What was the bunker style originally? What made Hearns go with this style here?


I'm risking sounding nit picky here, and I apologize for that, but the bunker style at Thomas' courses was actually the work of his partner, Billy Bell.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

tlavin

Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2009, 10:46:37 AM »
Phil,

Thanks for the very detailed thread and the great photography.  Flossmoor is both benefited and cursed by its proximity to Olympia Fields.  I was a member of Flossmoor for many years and always enjoyed the experience on the golf course.  The greens in particular are surely among the very best in the Chicago area.  Over the years, the tree planting of well-intentioned grounds committees had left the course with a dull, repetitive, bowling alley feel down the fairways.  Willow trees were planted in between fairways, particularly on the 16-17-18 portion of the course.  The result was an arboreal jail of a golf course.  If nothing else, this renovation stands as the most eye-popping that I've ever seen simply because of the tree removal.  It is a shining example of the "photo-shop" vision of the architect that persuaded the club to cut down well over 1,000 trees.  He had some help, of course.  Brad Klein first visited the club more than six years ago.  He and I stopped by for a couple glasses of wine and a quick tour of the golf course after playing the North Course the year before the U.S. Open.  His remark proved prophetic, telling me something like, "there's a great golf course out there somewhere, it's just too hard to see with all of the trees."

I'm not crazy about every aspect of the renovation.  The re-do of #8 surely makes it a more beautiful and more difficult hole, but it just serves to further accent the fact that it doesn't fit with the rest of the 1899 layout.  The original #8 was a short par 4 (ca. 320 yards), but that was eliminated decades ago, which allowed the club to make #9 a par 5 and convert the club to a par 72, which was their goal at the time.  Ray Hearn told me that he had thought about restoring the old configuration of 8 and 9, but it was too big of a "sell" to the membership.

Also, the new #13 strikes me as underwhelming.  Perhaps this will grow on me, but they really had to do a lot of work to create this little hole and it strikes me as rather bland.  I'm not a fan of the berm work done to masquerade the halfway house either, for that matter.

These are trifling quibbles in the final analysis.  In my judgment, Flossmoor is a superior golf course that has now been revealed to the golfing public in Chicagoland, after spending decades in the shadow of Olympia Fields and also in the shadow of more than 1000 unnecessary trees.  God bless that!

Chris Flamion

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 11:00:57 AM »
Phil,

Thanks for the great write up.  The tree removal looks amazing and gives so many avenues of play through the course.  I really like the mix of long, short and medium length holes.

Looks like the course would be a blast.

PThomas

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 11:07:10 AM »
nice job Phil, thanks

Flossmoor is a fine club and course...what greens!  a definite treat to play

thanks again to our hosts for a great day and to Mother Nature for absolutely perfect weather
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Phil McDade

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 11:16:13 AM »
Terry:

The 8th certainly has a different feel to it than the rest of the course -- the water featured on other parts of the course, like the pond on the 7th and the creek winding its way around the back nine, are not as instrumental to how those holes play compared to the looming pond on 8. I like the new green of the 8th, but the pond bordering about half the hole is distinctly different than the rest of the course.

Mr. Hearn and I had several exchanges via email about the new 13th -- when I looked at the old aerials of the course, the new hole added to both the length of the walk from 12 green to 13 tee, and from 13 green to 14 tee (which remains a fairly awkward green-to-tee transition). And I really don't like awkward green-to-tee transitions (and the one from the 6th green to the par 3 7th isn't great, either...). But, I really can't comment on how that old 13th played -- I wondered with some of my playing partners about whether the old 13th green could have been extended, to make for more pinnable space, ala what Beverly did on the 8th hole. But, Mr. Hearn thought the initial routing was poor, in part because I believe technology (and the course's emphasis on tree reduction) led to more golfers flying the old 13th green from the 12th tee. i think the new 13th is a solid short par 3, but I found Spion Kop to be a much more compelling hole.


To me, the real strength of the course are its par 4s and those small, tilted greens.

Phil McDade

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 11:34:20 AM »
Thanks, Phil. Very good presentation. What was the bunker style originally? What made Hearns go with this style here?


I'm risking sounding nit picky here, and I apologize for that, but the bunker style at Thomas' courses was actually the work of his partner, Billy Bell.

David:

I hope to get into some of that when I post my Flossmoor bunkering thread -- probably in a day or so.

Jeff Goldman

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 11:46:18 AM »
Phil,

Was any thought given to expanding the greens (and could they tell how much they had shrunk), or did they want to keep them small?

How do the greensites (and land, I guess) compare to Ravisloe?  I haven't seen Flossmoor in person, but those at Rav are just terrific, and make for a very good golf course on pretty flat property, which doesn't seem much different from the pix of Flossmoor.

Jeff
That was one hellacious beaver.

Billsteele

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 03:08:23 PM »
Jeff-I managed to play both Ravisloe and Flossmoor in the same day. Ravisloe has some of the most dynamic bunkering I have seen on a Ross course. The property is fairly flat and the bunkering and the greens really give the course its character and challenge. The greensites were marvelous with most of them being pushed up with numerous runoffs and collection areas (I remember the one on the right of #1 green well because I was there).

Flossmoor certainly has the better piece of property. There are a number of elevation changes on the back nine. The sequence of 16, 17 and 18 brings a fairly pronounced ridge line into play on the approaches to 16...over Eleanor's teeth and 18...with a marvelous large shaved area over the green. #17 tees off on top of that ridge with an approach over a creek to an elevated green. The creek that runs through the back nine is also well utilized. My impression was that the greensites were a little more low profile at Flossmoor, blending into the land they are situated on more than the push-ups at Ravisloe. The movement in the greens was more subtle at Flossmoor.

From my recollection, the goal of the club in dealing with the greens in the renovation was to reclaim some areas that had been lost over the years to maintenance practices. However, I believe some expansion (on a limited basis did take place).

On the whole, I thought the par fours at Flossmoor were very strong as a group and that Ray Hearn did a very nice job in tweaking a very fine golf course.

Phil McDade

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 03:30:26 PM »
Phil,

Was any thought given to expanding the greens (and could they tell how much they had shrunk), or did they want to keep them small?

How do the greensites (and land, I guess) compare to Ravisloe?  I haven't seen Flossmoor in person, but those at Rav are just terrific, and make for a very good golf course on pretty flat property, which doesn't seem much different from the pix of Flossmoor.

Jeff

Jeff:

I know a few others on the board have played both Ravisloe and Flossmoor and might weigh in. I still hope to get to Ravisloe this year, perhaps in the fall.

Almost every green at Flossmoor was expanded to some extent; from Mr. Hearn's notes, I'd say the 6th, 12th and 14th greens, and maybe the 5th, were worked on or expanded less than the others (and those are some of the coolest greens on the course.) Greens at 2, 4, 7, 15, 17 and 18 were expanded to tie into bunkers better, or to fit better with their surrounds. Greens on 8 and 13 are new ones.

Bill makes a good observation -- on several of the holes at Flossmoor, there is a real seamless transition between fairway and green -- reminded me of some courses I'd played in Scotland.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 07:14:24 PM »
Phil,

Excellent post, the 4th is greatly enhanced by raising the tee and lowering a bank before the fairway, the view of the hole is now superb.
I agree with Terry on the 8th, a fine hole but it doesn't yet sit comfortably with the rest of the course, maybe time will assist. Personally i like 13 as an example of a short par 3, miss on the wrong side and your in all sorts of trouble. 17 is a "new" hole without the trees and surely one of the toughest in Chicagoland.

Flossmoor is a fine members club with a decent pedigree and wonderful members, anyone looking for a club to enjoy their golf at would do well to pay FCC a visit.

Mark
Cave Nil Vino

Dave Jarrard

Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2009, 09:25:15 PM »
I agree with Phil that the strength of the golf course rests with the par 4's.  You have 7 par 4's in excess of 435 yards and 1 (number 12 at 408) that make the course a strong test of the game.

 I agree with others regarding the eighth hole.

I believe Killian did the redesign in the late 80's, converting the 3rd hole from a par 5 to a par 4 and making number 9 a par 5.  The eighth was redesigned with ponds flanking both sides of the green, although, for most, the ponds never came into play.   The new design is far better than the previous version, but I hope like others stated earlier, that time settles this hole.  Personally, I would like to see the pond pulled back significantly and have more prairie grass added in lieu of the water hazard.   I am sure this hole will be tinkered with in the future. 

As for the walks between the 6th green and 7th tee, the neat thing is if you have not played the course before you get a great panoramic of the hole.  The walk is pleasant enough too.

Overall I love this course and the history to game that is not forgotten by many of the members on this site.

Dave

Tom MacWood

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2009, 09:39:03 PM »
Is Flossmoor the former Homewood CC?

Tim_Cronin

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2009, 10:09:58 PM »
Is Flossmoor the former Homewood CC?

Yes.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Greg Ohlendorf

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2009, 11:21:04 PM »
To all,

Thanks to all who made the trip down to Flossmoor for our rater/GCA day. We drew the perfect weather card and had a great day.

To answer some of the questions posed above...

Phil, 

First of all, thanks for a great post of photos. I hope to get to Ran an "in my opionion" piece on FCC soon with some beofre and after photos. for those who haven't seen the before, the changes at Flossmoor are amazing, especially in the tree removal department. Hearn did an amazing job, finding the course that was hidden. I appreciate Terry Lavin's photoshop comment. A true test of golf was already there, but it was hidden from view.

David,

The bunkering on the old course was non-descript. Hearn wanted to enhance that part of the course and chose a very classic "Thomas" look that was prevalent in the '20s. This is an old course that still lies in the same corridors as it was originally desinged in. At least 14 of the 18 holes are in the same corridors as Tweedie first set out. Not many courses can say that.

Terry,

Holes 8 and 13 are new and we all know that. 8 was a challenge as the aborted attempt to redo that hole 20 years ago was poor. Hearn built a lay of the land par 4 that is the tough end of the great par 4s on the fornt and he left a ground option to the green. He had to deal with the two ponds that are there, which was a challenge.  13 works for me as a short hole. The old hole had an 8.5 degree slope which was virtually unplayable. the new hole is a grreat improvement, while maintaining a "short" hole on the course. Thanks as well for helping set up a great day a couple of weeks ago.

Jeff,

The greens that were expanded were 1, 2, 3, a little on 5, and a little on 15. We think that we have a great collection of greens, amybe as Terry L. says, the best collection in Chicago. We wanted to do little with them. Hearn did find some old areas that had been lost over the years, and those areas were reclaimed, but overall, little was done to the group as a whole.


Jeff,

I'd love you to stop over and see the course. Please let me know if you would like to visit. I'd be happy to host you.


Greg


Dan Moore

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2009, 12:25:30 AM »
Nice work Phil.  I found a degree of irony in your opening line since I like the geography on the back nine very much. 

To the best of my knowledge, the evolution breaks down like this.  Club founded 1899.  Original course Tweedie with assistance from member Dr Gentles and pro Jack Pearson opened in Sept. 1900.  Willie Watson added two new holes (current 2nd and 3rd) after the 1909 Western won by Chicak Evans.  After 2nd clubhouse fire in 1914-15 pro/superintendent Harry Collis rearranged the course by combining a par 3 and par 4 into today's closing par 5, added a new par 3 the 7th and shortened the 5th from a 5 to a 4 and lengthened the 6th by 100 yards into a stellar dogleg right 425 par 4.  Somewhere along the line the 12th was shortened by 40-50 yards and converted into a par 4.  Today's greens are likely the work of Collis.  In the 80-90's the 3rd was shortened into a par 4 (safety issue involving the range), a new tee was added to 7, a new green was built on 8, and the 9th was changed into par 5.  Late 90's early 20's Dave Esler redid the 18th green.  In 2007-2008 Ray Hearn moved the hill on 4 and created virtually a new hole with bunker placement, fairway expansion and tree removal, built a new green on 8 and built an entirely new 13th hole.  Ray did much more than that but those are the main changes to the routing. 

The best thing I can say about the course at Flossmoor is that it has a distinct character or personality all its own.  This is due in part to Tweedie's long and bold original layout that has stood the test of time, the nature of the terrain which was superbly utilized on the back nine and a really unique set of greens that are unlike any I have played anywhere else.  Its an original. 

"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Tom MacWood

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2009, 06:22:57 AM »
Flossmoor's reputation was quite high nationally in the 1920s. I take it someone modernized the course around that time. Was that Collis and does he deserve the bulk of the credit for that course?

Greg Ohlendorf

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2009, 08:10:32 AM »
Tom,

As Dan notes, Collis had an impact on the course. Much of that was probably upgrading the bunkers and greens. There was actually a bent grass strain called Flossmoor Bent that was put into play after the original layout was completed. But I will paste in an article from The American golfer, circa 1909, that writes about some of the great holes at Flossmoor, which Tweedie laid out. The major corridors for play, thus the routing we see today, are mainly Tweedies. He certainly took advantage of the features of the ground he had to work with.



In July 1909, The American Golfer magazine ran an article describing some of the holes on the course as the club prepared for the 1909 Western Amateur, which was won by Chick Evans. The author of the story, “Lochinvar”, noted that he wanted to “describe the holes which delight the heart of the true golfer, albeit that they may often prove the cause of unutterable anguish to him that lacketh the skill in the game.”

“Lochincar” goes on to detail a number of his favorite holes. He begins as follows, “Take for example the seventh hole (today’s 11th); a short one, only 140 yards, but the green is on top of a low hill, at the foot of which yawns a real hazard, a goodly pit filled with sand, and at times profanity. Trouble awaits the timid player, who through fear of the pit, uses a too powerful club, and that he pulls or slices is justly punished. It is a fine hole.”

“The eighth hole (460 yards) (the 12th today) is also worthy of mention, being well planned to reward good play. The green lies at the bottom of a hill, the summit of which is some 340 yards from the tee. Two fairly good strokes will give the player a clear view of the green and a short approach to the hole; but otherwise he will have a blind approach over the hill and will probably have to be satisfied with a six.”

“The 13th (460 yards) (the 17th today) is a very fine hole which requires careful play and undoubtedly has proved many a golfers’ Waterloo. Two good wooden shots and a pitch to the green which is on the top of a rather steep hill is all that is needed; but a creek catches a bad second and a poor approach breeds trouble. A player who writes five on his card should be well satisfied.”

He finishes his story by noting, “It is probably that as time goes on a few trees will be removed in one or two places where the course is somewhat narrow…However, where the whole is so good it is needless to pick flaws. In the phraseology of the hoi poloi, the Homewood golf course is ‘sure some golf.’”



I find it very interesting that he mentions the possible need for tree removal in 1909!!

Greg


Dan Moore

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2009, 09:29:35 AM »
I agree with Greg.  The core of the course, its basic routing, is primarily Tweedie.  In particular some of the best holes on the course, like 11 and 12 mentioned in Greg's post from 1909 (pre-Collis), are Tweedie originals.  Collis does deserve a significant amount of credit as he improved upon Tweedie's routing added a couple of new and modified holes and no doubt is responsible for their green complexes.  The course in my opinion is a Tweedie Collis course with significant resto-renovation by Ray Hearn. 

In assessing Collis work it is worth looking at two nearby courses.  Collis designed a nearby course today called Glenwoodie.  Its interesting in that the routing follows a very similar pattern to that at Flossmoor.  Some of the holes on the back nine were clearly inspired by those at Flossmoor.  The green sites are good but nearly as good as those at Flossmoor and the greens themselves are also very good but also not as good as those at Flossmoor .  The greens are also are quite different in size and style with much more internal undulation.  Longwood another south side Collis course which appears virtually unmodified shows a routing that far less inspired than Flossmoors.  Both courses have a bunker style that is similar to what was at Flossmoor in the Collis era.  I'll hold off on that discussion until Phil makes his post on Flossmoor's bunker style as that should be a seperate discussion.  What I draw from this is that Collis was a superb greenskeeper and a less than original router of courses.  Flossmoor stands out from both on the strength of its original routing and quality of its green complexes. 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Tom MacWood

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2009, 01:31:00 PM »
Here is a schematic of Homewood circa 1911.

Steve Salmen

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2009, 01:58:36 PM »
I respect that Mr. Hearn did a good job at Flossmoor CC.  I believe none of it would have been possible without the devotion to the course by longtime member, Mark Egge.

Greg Ohlendorf

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2009, 02:14:46 PM »
Steve,

The efforts of Mark Egge made this project a reality at Flossmoor. Mark was the most unbelievably prepared greenss chairman anyone could ask for and his passion and dedication to the project were second to none.

Couple that with the work and talent of our superintendent Bob Lively and one can easily imagine how the project turned out so well.

Btw, Mark holds the current course record at 65. Maybe he just wanted to make it a bit more challenging to protect his turf!!  (Pun intended!)

Greg

Phil McDade

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2009, 04:17:14 PM »
Sorry about the photos everyone -- photobucket told me I was within my account storage limit, but exceed my account bandwith limit :-\ (Any advice as I work to fix this???)

Hope to have the photos restored in a day or two.

Greg Ohlendorf

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Re: Flossmoor CC (Tweedie) -- a fresh look to an old Chicago classic
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2009, 04:32:02 PM »
Phil,

Wondered where they went! Thought it was just me.

Greg

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