Keiser to invest in Askernish?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Keiser to invest in Askernish?

Golf Course Architecture article dated the 4th August 2009

If interested check out the following web page;  http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Keiser-to-invest-in-Askernish/1583/Default.aspx

Melvyn

[Adrian_Stiff]

I cant understand any logic to this project. Whilst I understand that not everything needs to be commercial the location of Askernish is incredibly remote. I would love to see this course but its so difficult and expensive to get there. Taking things to an extreme if a great piece of land exists in northern Greenland is someone going to stump up the money to build it. Whatever happened to LOCATION-LOCATION-LOCATION ?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Adrian

I do not disagree with the expense of getting to Askernish (£199 by air), but I can see the sense of developing the area to attract more than just golfers, plus encouraging a longer stay making it worthwhile to travel by sea with or without a car.

I certainly do not see the need for a Trump extravaganza, but a development that helps promote the Island main attractions. Package deals, with more than just golf on offer. The cost of getting there can be minimized by ferry travel rather than air and longer stays make it more economical in both time and money.

As with all small resorts, they develop their core business and soon offshoots start to surface.

As for South Uist, if interested in the island as it was around the time of the design/construction of the course, there is a book by F G Rea ‘A School in South Uist’ (Reminiscences of a Hebridean Schoolmaster, 1890-1913). Somewhat slow but readable and available from www.birlinn.co.uk (ISBN: 1 874744874).

Let’s not forget that resorts like Cruden Bay, Strathpeffer Spa, Castletown (IOM), Rosapenna all started by attracting visitors, Castle Stewart and to a point the Castle Course are there to encourage non-locals – well they are the only ones mad enough to pay the Green Fees for these new courses.

With the right ideas and correct investment (phased to minimize impact and control of the potential) I feel that South Uist could offer both GB&I inhabitants and the overseas visitors a unique and interesting break from the normal resort holiday – without busting the bank for the investor or potential holidaymaker.   

Melvyn

[Mark Pearce]

I spent a week on South Uist with my wife (then girlfriend) some 19 years ago.  There's some real beauty there and Lorna (who loves the Western Isles) is keen to go back with the kids.  There isn't much to do than walk and sight see, though and the addition of a decent hotel and some decent places to eat would make it much more attractive (in the way that it has done for Skye, for instance).  We seriously thought about it this year and probably will visit, with clubs, in the next couple of years.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Melvyn & Mark (to some degree)- The theory is lovely, I just worry so much for Askernish, the green fee is so small yet the all in price is crazy high. Remember time is so important and not to travel by air adds lots of hours. I would be keen to stop, stare and enjoy South Uist but my friends just want to do it in a day and it cost £100. To some degree Castle Stuart is a must play but I think that will work out at £500 for a round each, with the flights and an overnight. It could suffer the same problems for us Southerner's we want to play it, dont mind the £150 but the location and ancillaries makes it a NO.

[Ross Tuddenham]

I live in Edinburgh and I think it would be easier to get to Bandon than it would South Uist.


Have you played the course?

If so, where do you see that this sort of investment could help the project?

[Forrest Richardson]

Askernish is not that bad a jaunt from Glasgow. Simple flight, gin and tonic on board, then a few minutes across the countryside from the airport. You can also land on the beach to the south (Barra) as it remains one of the few (if not the only) scheduled flight airports to use a stretch of beach for the "tarmac" and runway.

[David_Tepper]

Melvyn -

You continue to state misinformation regarding the green fee rate for locals at Castle Stuart. Locals can play the course for 50 pounds, which makes a round at Castle Stuart much less expensive for locals than a round at either Nairn or Royal Dornoch.

DT     

[Adrian_Stiff]

I just checked some flight costs, times if I wanted to go this weekend and my flights to Glasgow would cost £160 with my golf clubs and hand luggage and £324 from Glasgow to Benbucula. It also involves a 9 hour wait in Glasgow airport one way and a real sprint to make the return. Lets call it £500 to get there with taxis/parking.

[Aidan Bradley]

Adrian,

With all due respects, last September after I photographed Bearwood Lakes I flew from Heathrow to Glasgow, had an hours wait and two lovely wee scotches. Flying back was equally stress free. The bottom line is it may not be for everyone for what ever reason, but those that go and appreciate the experience for what is, will not be disappointed and will cherish fond memories for al long time.

Aidan.

[Forrest Richardson]

I imagine it a far less troublesome journey today than Old Tom had getting there.   

[Adrian_Stiff]

Your missing the point......ITS NOT GOING TO WORK

[Aidan Bradley]

Adrian, why so positive?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Aidan just because of the costs involved and the difficulty in getting there. I want to play it but at £500 and with the associated hassle of two flights, taxis and waits its a NO. I can't see there being anywhere near enough people that will want to play this course taking those things into consideration. Location is a big factor in any buisness and it needs people to make it work to any degree, its no good living in a cocoon and hailing it a must play mastepiece if its too hard to get too, why did it close, great course it may be but how many rounds is it doing? The Green fee is actually a near give away, how can it survive. Melvyn mentined a £199 return fly package from Glasgow, that saves £130 ish on the price I got but....... this isnt about a good old sit down and a gin and tonic. Just not enough people.

[Aidan Bradley]

Views of South Uist................. $00.00

Conversing with the locals.........$00.00

Fresh Salar Salmon....................$15.00

Hoping to hit the 11th...............Priceless

[Melvyn Morrow]

David

What the hell have I done to you?

Why can’t you just read what is written instead on jumping to conclusions.

Just where did I mention the cost for the Green Fees at CS. I do not believe I mentioned any, so how can that be misinformation. All the Bull Shit is coming from you as usual, for the simple reason that you read what you think I am saying instead of WHAT I am saying.

You have also ignored my previous posts because you would have noticed that I enjoy the smaller more out of the way courses like Cullen £22-30, Tarland £18. I would not play Royal Dornoch if you paid me, although I have a soft spot for Nairn.

So attack me by all means but get your facts right before you do so as it makes you look a real whatever.

Melvyn


Adrian

What is not going to work? I don’t have ESP so will have to wait to see what suggestions/plans are being (if any at the moment) suggested.

I expect if you had been alive around the 1910 period you would have raised concerns about the Titanic – saying it was not unsinkable. You will excuse me but I will comment when I see something to comment upon. As yet, I am not aware future projects.

Expect you would say that your pint is half-empty whilst I would say mine is half full, before finishing it and passing the glass to you to buy the next round.

To the unsinkable and most charming of all the Doom Merchants on GCA.com 
I give you our own Mr. Adrian ‘IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK ‘ Stiff. 

Melvyn

[Brian_Ewen]

How many local members does Askernish have ?

[Forrest Richardson]

The precise reasons it will not work are the very reasons it might.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Melvyn- I am trying to be realistic and not just look at this wonderful golf course with rose tinted glasses. We are in an age where there have been too many projects given the green light by crazed banking and loose money. I would like to see a way this course could work, I just cant come up with one with the present logistics, but with good local helpers at the club I am sure it could manage to mow and so survive and so that could be deemed TO WORK.

[David_Tepper]

Melvyn -

When you use phrases like "mad enough" are you saying someone would be mad to pay 50 pounds to play a round of golf at Castle Stuart? Making a statement like that is likely a form of madness in and of itself.

To compare Castle Stuart with 'local courses"  like Cullen, Hopeman, Tarlair, etc. (charming as those course are) is ridiculous. It is like comparing pub grub or fish & chips to Michelin-starred dining. There is a time and place (and price) for both. There is value in both.

A friend of mine played Fortrose & Rosemarkie today. The word from the locals there, who have actually played Castle Stuart, is that CS is among the very best golf courses they have ever played.

P.S. Don't worry, I will never offer to pay you to play Royal Dornoch!

DT    

[Melvyn Morrow]

Adrian

I said in an earlier post 
“I certainly do not see the need for a Trump extravaganza, but a development that helps promote the Island main attractions. Package deals, with more than just golf on offer”

Then went on to say.
“With the right ideas and correct investment (phased to minimize impact and control of the potential) I feel that South Uist could offer both GB&I inhabitants and the overseas visitors a unique and interesting break from the normal resort holiday – without busting the bank for the investor or potential holidaymaker”

However, we will all just have to wait and see if anything comes from these visits.

Still hold you to that pint

Melvyn


David

You are doing it again, I just said I prefer the small courses, nothing about comparing. Please read what is actually written.

My concern re new courses are that they are not proven so should start at a lower Green Fee. The individual golfer decides for himself as to value for his money.

Clearly, we do not seek the same thing from our Golf. Although I must say, you are starting to sound rather elitist in your old age. 

Melvyn

[Mike_Young]

Is invest the right word?

I really hope people appreciate guys like this.....they are good business men and they must do this because of their love for the game....throughout the ages golf has depended on such guys to make these "investments" for the good of the game.....

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian

I said in an earlier post 
“I certainly do not see the need for a Trump extravaganza, but a development that helps promote the Island main attractions. Package deals, with more than just golf on offer”

Then went on to say.
“With the right ideas and correct investment (phased to minimize impact and control of the potential) I feel that South Uist could offer both GB&I inhabitants and the overseas visitors a unique and interesting break from the normal resort holiday – without busting the bank for the investor or potential holidaymaker”


My concern re new courses are that they are not proven so should start at a lower Green Fee. The individual golfer decides for himself as to value for his money.


Melvyn

I think the Trump idea would at least generate tremendous money into the Aberdeen economy which is no bad thing. I am not convinced Aberdeen is a great second home location for Americans and us southerners wont be keen on the cold and wet. Maybe this project will be a casualty of that loose money lending and never get off the ground now as the lenders may take a more bearish view.
Second point- I think in one way that Askernish is a golf course for a conosuier and the real students of the game, as a course it will attract a certain client if its not too crazy a price. I am not convinced that extras on South Uist would be enough pull, yes the island is beautiful but thats another reason to go and those that love the island may just be ok with a nine holer. You almost want to have 4 golf courses plus good lodgings/food etc to bring golfers, they want to play other courses.
Re New courses and Green Fees, If Castle Stuart was say on the Isle of Dogs I think it would fill every tee time at £100 a go. These courses cost a lot to build, then theres the land the clubhouse costs and the staffing levels. Its probably a £800,000 run cost per annum, so on 20,000 rounds you need £46 (inc the Vat) to get back level and thats before you have started pecking away at the capital costs.

[Sean_A]

I doubt I will ever make it to Askernish just because of the logistics.  However, I can see its appeal and would think some folks would visit.  Whether or not this means "it works", I can't say.  To some degree, the project has worked already and if new sensible investment comes in who knows?  I do think the club is missing a trick with donations.  They should be offering some sort of fairly cheap (50-100 quid) one time only payment for international membership.  Perhaps that time as passed now that the club has lost the spotlight a bit.  I know I would have sent them a cheque, but at the time they were asking far too much and I wasn't going to make a straight out donation because its a business which hopes to do well.  I hope things work out for Askernish because lord knows we need courses (no matter where they are) which are charming and interesting enough to compete with the big boys who have taken to gouging their customers for al they are worth.

Ciao  

[George Freeman]

Views of South Uist................. $00.00

Conversing with the locals.........$00.00

Fresh Salar Salmon....................$15.00

Hoping to hit the 11th...............Priceless

This post makes my soul yearn to be there this moment!  Awesome post/pics Aiden.