CAVENDISH GC: A Dr Mac Delight

[Ben Stephens]

I’d like a Cavendish visit once the Plague has passed too. Perhaps a GCA event?

Why not?  Relatively close, I'd imagine, to the centre of gravity of UK GCAers and somewhere I really need to get back to.  Without fearing for my life with Ben Stephens in the group behind!

My introduction to Ben was while putting out on the 7th green at Cavendish with Lorne Smith and two others whose identities I can't remember. Was one you, Mark?


A ball thudded onto the green right in the middle of us. What the ....?!!!


We glared back to see a grinning Ben on the tee 300 yards away waving at us.


Having subsequently played with Ben on several occasions I now know that his target area is actually a relatively safe place to be. 


Still... 

I think it was Spangles and Boony playing with you and Lorne on the 7th green   

[Ben Stephens]

Yes, Duncan, I was in that group.  I was also in a group at Liphook, on the short dogleg left par 4 when Ben drove through the green and, even more remarkably, on the 3rd green at Silloth when he nearly did the same thing.  Perhaps it's me, not him?

Mark,




Well you played foursomes with myself at Perranporth and you were surprised to be left with a 9 iron to the par 5 2nd green 


I do remember Silloth 


Need to return to Cavendish - last time I played there I holed out for a 2 with a wedge on the 10th and agree with Whitty that it would be a great venue for BUDA in the future.




Cheers
Ben

[Mark Pearce]

Well you played foursomes with myself at Perranporth and you were surprised to be left with a 9 iron to the par 5 2nd green 

Since I left you through the back, 9 iron was too much club.  Since I put you 20 yards through the back, I should probably have hit gap wedge.  For our second.  On an uphill par 5.  Not a game I'm familiar with....

[Duncan Cheslett]

Need to return to Cavendish - last time I played there I holed out for a 2 with a wedge on the 10th and agree with Whitty that it would be a great venue for BUDA in the future.

Hopefully I shall be attending my first BUDA this year and have the centenary year of 2025 in mind for a Cavendish BUDA.

[Ben Stephens]

Well you played foursomes with myself at Perranporth and you were surprised to be left with a 9 iron to the par 5 2nd green 

Since I left you through the back, 9 iron was too much club.  Since I put you 20 yards through the back, I should probably have hit gap wedge.  For our second.  On an uphill par 5.  Not a game I'm familiar with....

Well we still won the hole (I think)! I played local scratch league matches singles against Ollie Freckingham (both at home and away) who also bowled for Leicestershire County Cricket boy that lad was hitting the ball miles 30 yards or so past me. The one that sticks out my mind is Joe Dean who was hitting 3 wood 30-40 yards past - thats definitely a game that I am not familiar to......

[James Reader]

Cavendish is looking for some help....


https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/save-cavendish-golf-club#start

[Duncan Cheslett]

Cavendish is looking for some help....


https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/save-cavendish-golf-club#start

News travels fast James!

Like all golf clubs Cavendish has been hit hard by the closure forced upon us. Despite being custodians of a historic and highly regarded course we are one of two small golf clubs in a small town of 20,000 inhabitants. We have less than 200 full members. We do however, have a catchment of over 5 million people living within an hour's drive of the club and so over recent years have become increasingly reliant on visitor and society income to balance the books.

The sudden collapse of this income has been devastating. Members have rallied round with loans and advance payments on future subscriptions etc, thus averting the immediate crisis, but that doesn't replace the revenue that is lost forever. Meanwhile our greenstaff are still all employed on full pay. The course is looking fantastic but the drain on the club's meagre cash reserves is clearly unsustainable for long.

A new management board has been installed at the club, and this includes several local people with specific experience in the art of fundraising - hence the crowdfunding appeal. This initiative is more a function of the culture change at the top of the club than an indication of any particular desperation on the part of Cavendish. Pretty well all golf clubs are desperate right now - we just appear to have got our appeal in first!

Early indications are extremely positive - we are attracting a lot of media attention and pledges are beginning to flood in from all manner of unlikely sources. The membership has been galvanised by this initiative and are busy spreading the word via their social media contacts.

I would urge all friends of Cavendish to chip in - there are some excellent green fee deals on offer for those making a donation.

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/save-cavendish-golf-club/comments#start


My personal involvement in all this is developing marketing strategies to expand our membership base going forward. To this end we are currently finalizing details of a new International Membership which will involve unlimited golf at Cavendish for occasional visitors from overseas. We are ideally located only 45 minutes from Manchester International Airport in a the lovely Georgian spa town of Buxton in the Peak District National Park - the perfect first round and overnight stay of any UK golf trip!

In addition to this I am working on an innovative new Country Membership for members of other UK golf clubs who would also like to be able to play at Cavendish a few times per year - including in Saturday competitions. Buxton is a great place to visit for a weekend every now and again!

I shall be announcing these membership drives in the next few days.

[Duncan Cheslett]

***UPDATE***


Two days into our crowdfunding campaign we've raised £6500!


That's a quarter of the way to our target of £25k with another 25 days to go. There's maybe something in these new-fangled ideas!


https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/save-cavendish-golf-club#start

[Sean_A]

***UPDATE***


Two days into our crowdfunding campaign we've raised £6500!


That's a quarter of the way to our target of £25k with another 25 days to go. There's maybe something in these new-fangled ideas!


https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/save-cavendish-golf-club#start

So, how is the site of the 2021 Buda Cup doing?


Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

They’ve found enough money to do significant course upgrades under Jonathan Gaunt...


...Any update on the extent of the works, Duncan?

[Thomas Dai]

They’ve found enough money to do significant course upgrades under Jonathan Gaunt...
...Any update on the extent of the works, Duncan?

Including Ecobunkering the bunkers - see https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68330.msg1659071.html#new
atb

[Duncan Cheslett]

They’ve found enough money to do significant course upgrades under Jonathan Gaunt...


...Any update on the extent of the works, Duncan?

Yes, we've managed to allocate some funds to upgrading the bunkers on holes 1-5 and 18. We hope to complete the rest of the course over the next two years.


Hole 1


Before


1 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr


Under construction

f1011620-1826-4777-adb4-7d728f5de5ff by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr


Hole 3

Before

3b by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

Under construction

IMG_4953 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

I'm particularly pleased to see the original bunker long and right on the third being reinstated after many years.


The new bunkers are being lined with Ecobunker material but we are not going with the stacked edge. It was decided that a stacked plastic edge was a step too far on a project intended to restore MacKenzie bunkers as closely as possible to the original.

The new bunkers on 18 are looking spectacular but I didn't take any photos last time I was there!

[Duncan Cheslett]

My own contribution meanwhile, is currently in the warm and dry environs of the locker room!


130274022_10218680403581402_2745864273748662405_n by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

130248359_10218680410301570_3570453473053411457_n by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr



IMG_5008 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

[Ben Stephens]

They’ve found enough money to do significant course upgrades under Jonathan Gaunt...


...Any update on the extent of the works, Duncan?

Yes, we've managed to allocate some funds to upgrading the bunkers on holes 1-5 and 18. We hope to complete the rest of the course over the next two years.


Hole 1


Before


1 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr


Under construction

f1011620-1826-4777-adb4-7d728f5de5ff by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr


Hole 3

Before

3b by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

Under construction

IMG_4953 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

I'm particularly pleased to see the original bunker long and right on the third being reinstated after many years.


The new bunkers are being lined with Ecobunker material but we are not going with the stacked edge. It was decided that a stacked plastic edge was a step too far on a project intended to restore MacKenzie bunkers as closely as possible to the original.

The new bunkers on 18 are looking spectacular but I didn't take any photos last time I was there!

Not convinced with the new bunker shaping I just feel it is a bit OTT for Cavendish. Isn't it a windy part of the country that sand will get blown out of the bunkers and extra sand will be required by the club every year because it is exposed.


Didn't Mackenzie original bunkers have a more frilly outline - these ones look rather smooth edged.


The lockers look great however that ceiling 

[Duncan Cheslett]

Ben,

The windy site will always be an issue but one thing we all wanted to see was slightly higher sand faces on the bunkers. Over the years - like at many courses - the bunkers have been allowed to become flat saucers of sand with grass faces. The hope and intention is to add a little dramatic effect to what have become dull and barely functional hazards.


We have early photographs of most of the green sites at Cavendish, and as far as possible MacKenzie's original bunker styling will be followed. Unfortunately, we have no old photos for the first three holes, so a little artistic license has been necessary. I have questioned the need for the extravagant tongues on some bunkers, which to me give too much of a "modern" look, but I am assured by our architect that these are entirely in keeping with the MacKenzie style. I don't suppose that removing a tongue later is too difficult!


I've not been there for a couple of weeks, during which time more work has been done. I'm playing today so will post some pics of 4, 5, and 18 later.






As for the ceiling, I may well board and skim it yet if I have any of my meagre budget left after refurbishing the showers. If not, it will have to wait. What's wrong with a bit of retro Artex anyway? 

[Ben Stephens]

Ben,

The windy site will always be an issue but one thing we all wanted to see was slightly higher sand faces on the bunkers. Over the years - like at many courses - the bunkers have been allowed to become flat saucers of sand with grass faces. The hope and intention is to add a little dramatic effect to what have become dull and barely functional hazards.


We have early photographs of most of the green sites at Cavendish, and as far as possible MacKenzie's original bunker styling will be followed. Unfortunately, we have no old photos for the first three holes, so a little artistic license has been necessary. I have questioned the need for the extravagant tongues on some bunkers, which to me give too much of a "modern" look, but I am assured by our architect that these are entirely in keeping with the MacKenzie style. I don't suppose that removing a tongue later is too difficult!


I've not been there for a couple of weeks, during which time more work has been done. I'm playing today so will post some pics of 4, 5, and 18 later.

As for the ceiling, I may well board and skim it yet if I have any of my meagre budget left after refurbishing the showers. If not, it will have to wait. What's wrong with a bit of retro Artex anyway? 

Hi Duncan


I would dispute what the Golf Course Architect has said. Mackenzie didn't really do smooth edges in his camouflage approach to bunker styles it was more unkempt raggedy outlines. I wonder which Mackenzie bunkers the architect got the reference from. I am afraid those new bunkers on the first is too American in look the majority might prefer this however to me its not true Mackenzie look. 


I liked the look of the old bunkers as they fitted with the landscape and the surrounds well as it was not 'in your face' for me Cavendish is losing its unique look and its becoming too much like the other golf courses in the Leeds 'Sandbelt'


Regarding ceiling I would board over it and skim it. Don't forget the moisture levels in the changing rooms that you will require a moisture board plasterboard


Cheers
Ben

[Sean_A]

Ben

There is no doubt Cavendish used to have flashed bunkers whose shapes were fairly basic.  I disagree with Duncan that they fit into the landscape better simply because the bunkers stand out far more when flashed compared to rolled over grass faces.  I prefer the grass look for essentially parkland courses because they do fit the scene in a lighter manner. I expect the function of this style better fits a low budget maintenance scheme as well.  The big issue with the flashed bunkers is they look horribly out of place when on hills. I guess the easy solution is to not build on the hills!

Anyway, to me, the bunkers are fine.  I would much rather the club focus on tree removal, continued drainage efforts and grass lines for now.  For me, bunkers are a low priority.

Ciao

[Ben Stephens]

Ben

There is no doubt Cavendish used to flashed bunkers whose shapes were fairly basic.  I disagree with Duncan that they fit into the landscape better simply because the bunkers stand out far more when flashed compared to rolled over grass faces.  I prefer the grass look for essentially parkland courses because they do fit the scene in a lighter manner. I expect the function of this style better fits a low budget maintenance scheme as well.  The big issue with the flashed bunkers is they look horribly out of place when on hills. I guess the easy solution is to not build on the hills!

Anyway, to me, the bunkers are fine.  I would much rather the club focus on tree removal, continued drianage efforts and grass lines for now.  For me, bunkers are a low priority.

Ciao

Sean,


Which areas are you referring to for tree removal - I have heard that the drainage is improving especially the 5th fairway. All what you are referring to is more cost effective than redoing all of the bunkers 


Cheers
Ben

[Ben Stephens]

Duncan,


A good reference of how the Mackenzie bunkers looked like - 'Alister MacKenzie's Cypress Point Club' by Geoff Shackleford is a good read and so many photos of what the course looked like.


Cheers
Ben

[Duncan Cheslett]

Just got in from a rather wet round at Cavendish!  Here are some more pics of the work in progress...




4th Before

4b by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

4th Now

IMG_5021 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

5th Before


5 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

5th Now

IMG_5023 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

18th Before

18c by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

18th Now

IMG_5025 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

[Duncan Cheslett]

Anyway, to me, the bunkers are fine.  I would much rather the club focus on tree removal, continued drainage efforts and grass lines for now.  For me, bunkers are a low priority.

A survey of club members in the summer revealed that overwhelmingly the biggest concern regarding the course was the state of the bunkers. In virtually all of them the drainage had failed - the sand was compacted hardpan in summer and flooded in winter. You'd struggle to find a single member or visitor who thought the bunkers were "fine". They are beyond doubt most peoples' main priority.


The styling of the bunkers is a balance between aesthetic impact, adherence to our MacKenzie heritage, and maintainability with a full-time greens staff of only three. Our course manager has been closely involved with the architect and shaper to ensure that form doesn't override function. I had worries that we might end up with modern resort course bunkering on a classic MacKenzie, but these concerns have largely been allayed. Ultimately, we have to appeal to the general golfer more than the GCA wing nut. Impressive dramatic bunkering looks good in photos and helps sell green fees. MacKenzie himself was no slouch in this department!


A third of the bunkers on the course will have been completed this winter. It is planned to work on the rest over the next two winters as funds allow.


Tree removal continues apace, opening up forgotten vistas and allowing light and air into greens and tees. Extensive drainage work is currently being undertaken by specialist contractors on the problematic 5th fairway. Across the whole course deep linear aeration with an "Earthquake" machine last year made an incredible difference as a century of thatch and compaction was relieved at a stroke. Cavendish is now a remarkably dry winter course!


An enthusiastic band of member volunteers continues to upgrade pathways in areas of heavy traffic. The clubhouse is also being renovated at minimal cost thanks to the many tradespeople we have as members. The sense of optimism for the future at the club is palpable - staring into the abyss earlier this year has had a transformative effect.


I hope to post full details of the forthcoming Cavendish Buda later today.

[Sean_A]

Anyway, to me, the bunkers are fine.  I would much rather the club focus on tree removal, continued drainage efforts and grass lines for now.  For me, bunkers are a low priority.

A survey of club members in the summer revealed that overwhelmingly the biggest concern regarding the course was the state of the bunkers. In virtually all of them the drainage had failed - the sand was compacted hardpan in summer and flooded in winter. You'd struggle to find a single member or visitor who thought the bunkers were "fine". They are beyond doubt most peoples' main priority.


The styling of the bunkers is a balance between aesthetic impact, adherence to our MacKenzie heritage, and maintainability with a full-time greens staff of only three. Our course manager has been closely involved with the architect and shaper to ensure that form doesn't override function. I had worries that we might end up with modern resort course bunkering on a classic MacKenzie, but these concerns have largely been allayed. Ultimately, we have to appeal to the general golfer more than the GCA wing nut. Impressive dramatic bunkering looks good in photos and helps sell green fees. MacKenzie himself was no slouch in this department!


A third of the bunkers on the course will have been completed this winter. It is planned to work on the rest over the next two winters as funds allow.


Tree removal continues apace, opening up forgotten vistas and allowing light and air into greens and tees. Extensive drainage work is currently being undertaken by specialist contractors on the problematic 5th fairway. Across the whole course deep linear aeration with an "Earthquake" machine last year made an incredible difference as a century of thatch and compaction was relieved at a stroke. Cavendish is now a remarkably dry winter course!


An enthusiastic band of member volunteers continues to upgrade pathways in areas of heavy traffic. The clubhouse is also being renovated at minimal cost thanks to the many tradespeople we have as members. The sense of optimism for the future at the club is palpable - staring into the abyss earlier this year has had a transformative effect.


I hope to post full details of the forthcoming Cavendish Buda later today.

Well, the members pay the bills. Though I haven't experienced these failed bunkers you speak of. In any case, I would consider continued drainage work to include bunkers, just low priority drainage work.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Duncan,
Thank you for the various updates and detailed explanations.
Looking forward to a 2021 visit.
atb

[Duncan Cheslett]

My biggest concern is with the new bunkering on the 18th. This is a photo from 1928, only a couple of years after the course opened.



18d by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr


And here is the new bunkering by Jonathon Gaunt.

IMG_5025 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

I have no problem with the right hand bunker - it is in exactly the same place as MacKenzie's bunker and is probably a better shape.

The left hand bunker however, troubles me. This is a par 4 hole of 440 yards over a very undulating fairway. The only realistic chance most club golfers have of reaching the green in two shots is with a fairway wood from 200 yards which catches the down slope of the fairway and then kicks on and up the ramp onto the putting surface. The elation felt and the satisfaction gained when this shot is pulled off is immense.

Due to the left to right slope of the terrain the aiming point for this shot is generally the flagpole by the side of the clubhouse. Now however, there is a bloody great bunker directly on the line the perfectly struck ball would take. The low handicapper flying a mid or short iron directly onto the green is unaffected, but the shorter hitter has his main option removed.

I've discussed this with Jonathon but he clearly hadn't even considered the issue when siting the bunker. He just wanted it closer to the green to catch errant aerial approaches.

I'm sure the running shot in was in MacKenzie's mind when he positioned the original bunkers 10 yards further left and seemingly "detached" from the green.

[Ben Stephens]

My biggest concern is with the new bunkering on the 18th. This is a photo from 1928, only a couple of years after the course opened.



18d by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr


And here is the new bunkering by Jonathon Gaunt.

IMG_5025 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

I have no problem with the right hand bunker - it is in exactly the same place as MacKenzie's bunker and is probably a better shape.

The left hand bunker however, troubles me. This is a par 4 hole of 440 yards over a very undulating fairway. The only realistic chance most club golfers have of reaching the green in two shots is with a fairway wood from 200 yards which catches the down slope of the fairway and then kicks on and up the ramp onto the putting surface. The elation felt and the satisfaction gained when this shot is pulled off is immense.

Due to the left to right slope of the terrain the aiming point for this shot is generally the flagpole by the side of the clubhouse. Now however, there is a bloody great bunker directly on the line the perfectly struck ball would take. The low handicapper flying a mid or short iron directly onto the green is unaffected, but the shorter hitter has his main option removed.

I've discussed this with Jonathon but he clearly hadn't even considered the issue when siting the bunker. He just wanted it closer to the green to catch errant aerial approaches.

I'm sure the running shot in was in MacKenzie's mind when he positioned the original bunkers 10 yards further left and seemingly "detached" from the green.

Duncan


I agree with you the new left bunker is far too close to the green and reduces the number of possible shots into the green. Would have replicated the look that Mackenzie did in 1928 with the two bunkers about 10-20 yards away from the edge of the green.


In Mackenzie's days the ball did not stop like we have currently however you are right it makes it harder for the shorter hitters who generate less spin.


I can't help feeling the new bunkers look like cookie cutters - very similar sizes and shapes whereas the original were of differing sizes and shapes. Some people have differing ways of translating what they used to look like and how they should look like plus forget that all golfers need to be accommodated not the top 5%.




Cheers
Ben