[Tiger_Bernhardt]

deserved after that chicken you know what request for an unplayable in the middle of the fairway from a good lye. what ar ethe offical thinking leting that go. OMG that was pitiful

[Phil McDade]

Kind of like Tiger asking if he could move that two-ton boulder at Phoenix, and then enlisting the fans to move it...

If, as John VB says, the ruling was a correct one, maybe Wie knows more about the rules than a lot of folks...

[Steve_ Shaffer]

A player can ask an official to declare an area ground under repair during a competition.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41125.0/

[Chris DeNigris]

It's a team event and she's playing for her country in the biggest event in her sport. If it was a legit request (according to the rules) then she'd be remiss in not asking for the ruling. She'd be jeopardizing her team's chances if she didn't. Crap, I forgot...it's MW....nevermind.

[Mark Pearce]

I do't have any problem with her asking for relief.  I have contempt for the weakness of the authorities that gave it, simply because the ground was a bit chewed up.  It would be wrong to criticise any player for asking for a ruling, particularly if there's a chance they might get one.

[Ronald Montesano]

Silly thread...if she can ask to have the ground declared unplayable, don't call her request anything but savvy golf.  Seriously, Tiger B., would you say the same thing about another professional golfer?  I found her play inspired, especially since her partner apparently took the final four (critical) holes off to tweet or something.

[jeffwarne]

I do't have any problem with her asking for relief.  I have contempt for the weakness of the authorities that gave it, simply because the ground was a bit chewed up.  It would be wrong to criticise any player for asking for a ruling, particularly if there's a chance they might get one.

How on earth could an official look at that area BEFORE the competition (which she said she did) and NOT MARK it-yet declare that it would be GUR in the "unlikely" event someone hit it there!!!
In the middle of the fairway on the 18th hole!!!!
I don't think a one man operation club golf pro would make such a mistake, much less a complete rules staff!!!

That said, her original lie in the bad area was fine

[Paul Jones]

You should know the rules, especially when they help you.  I have seen PGA Tour players trying to get relieve from some where they should not and get told NO.  I do not blame her for asking, if it is the wrong rule then it is the Officials fault.  She has gotten in trouble for not following the rules before, so good for her for asking before doing something that causes her to loose a hole or get disqualified.

[Craig Sweet]

[quoteThat said, her original lie in the bad area was fine[/quote]

Jeff were you there? You saw her lie in person? 

I read that her ball was in a wet, muddy divot..

I agree...if the Rule's Officials saw the area before the round and deemed it GUR, then it should have been marked or noted on a rules sheet...or at the very least communicated to the captains that it would be played as such.

[Phil McDade]

Jeff:

TV showed it on the edge of what looked like a divot, or a chewed up area of the course, with nothing but dirt immediately behind the ball. It wasn't the worst of lies, but with the match on the line, it wasn't a very good one, either.

Chris makes a good point -- the assumption on Tiger B's part is that MW was trying to get away with something; my assumption is that players know the rules, and to what extent they can ask for rulings. Tiger somewhat famously badgered USGA walking rules officials during the US Open at Pebble Beach when he thought he had an unplayable lie (which was not given). PJ Boatright said after the debate that he "clearly got the impression" Tiger wanted to win the US Open that year by 18 strokes (instead of the 15 strokes he did).

[jeffwarne]

[quoteThat said, her original lie in the bad area was fine

Jeff were you there? You saw her lie in person? 

I read that her ball was in a wet, muddy divot..

I agree...if the Rule's Officials saw the area before the round and deemed it GUR, then it should have been marked or noted on a rules sheet...or at the very least communicated to the captains that it would be played as such.
[/quote]

My point was that an area that "HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN LOOKED AT BY OFFICIALS" and noted, should have been marked.
The idea that they didn't mark it because they didn't think it was in play is ludicrous-why bother to mark anything?.
It would've taken 30 seconds to circle the entire area (some of whiched looked really bad).

I totally understand if the ball was in a weird,out of play area THAT HAD NOT BEEN NOTICED then it might not be marked .
Just a stupid decision by an official to note it and not mark it.

Her actual lie in what was a bad area was fine-not in a divot but just in front. the dirt in front of the ball was below ball level i.e. ball first contact would've negated any dirt problem-although after seeing her abysmal chip/pitch on 17 she probably needed a tee at that point .

Wie was absolutely entitled to ask for and receive a drop-but I don't think the delay helped her and certainly could've hit the shot she produced from any lie.

[Mike Hendren]

Coming from an LSU man I thought the thread title was an attempt at a complete sentence and a darned good try at that.  Nobody can string together seven single syllable words like a Tiger.  All it lacked was a word ending in "eaux." 

Bogey

[Joe Hancock]

Coming from an LSU man I thought the thread title was an attempt at a complete sentence and a darned good try at that.  Nobody can string together seven single syllable words like a Tiger.  All it lacked was a word ending in "eaux." 

Bogey

Ouch, but funny. I'm not above laughing at someone's expense.

 

[Ken Moum]

Tiger somewhat famously badgered USGA walking rules officials during the US Open at Pebble Beach when he thought he had an unplayable lie (which was not given). PJ Boatright said after the debate that he "clearly got the impression" Tiger wanted to win the US Open that year by 18 strokes (instead of the 15 strokes he did).

Ummm, the player and only the player gets to decide if a ball is unplayable. No ruling required.

And PJ boatwright had been dead for nine years when Tiger won at Pebble Beach in 2000. Was it David Fay?

<G>

Ken

[rjsimper]

I am pretty critical of Wie and some of her trevails.

That said, the situation in question I have no issue with her asking - knowing the rules is important. I don't understand why if the committee had discussed the area in question, what harm there would be in marking it off as GUR, unless the just didnt want the white paint lines showing on TV.

I will say this, I think Wie's swing looks better now than it has in years---none of that sawed-off knockdown crap, none of that wet noodle followthrough because she's trying to hit it 320.

I predict she wins a major next year.

[Ronald Montesano]

Trevails, huh?  Midd would NOT be proud.

We're not talking about an unplayable lie, but GUR (ground under repair.)  The UL would bring a 1-stroke penalty, not what Wie wanted.  If GUR had not been granted, she certainly would have played the shot and not taken the UL.

[Bill_McBride]

The area in question appears to have circled with white chalk today.

[Dave_Miller]

deserved after that chicken you know what request for an unplayable in the middle of the fairway from a good lye. what ar ethe offical thinking leting that go. OMG that was pitiful

John:'
While I did not see the incident as a USGA Rules Official I have no problem with Wie asking for relief and if the area should be marked as GUR.  At USGA Championships only the Rovers can declare an area GUR during the round and this is discussed at length by the officials prior the start of play to try and set some ground rules.  However it is the call of the official involved at the time. As I did not see the incident I don't know if the Official made the correct call or just gave in to Wie.
Best
Dave

[Ben Sims]

deserved after that chicken you know what request for an unplayable in the middle of the fairway from a good lye. what ar ethe offical thinking leting that go. OMG that was pitiful

Nice work Tiger.  Your post confirms my theory that it takes massive quantities of alcohol to watch women's golf.

[Garland Bayley]

deserved after that chicken you know what request for an unplayable in the middle of the fairway from a good lye. what ar ethe offical thinking leting that go. OMG that was pitiful

I'm surprised that this thread got to the point it has without anyone pointing out the other thread and JVBs excellent blog and his most informative information there.

I am also surprised that the father of a young lady that has tried to play collegiate golf would make such an attack on a female golfer trying to play for her country.

Finally, I have to point out that MW has no fault in availing herself of help where the rules allow her too. I hope many of you remember JJ Washedup's performance in a similar match where he took advantage of redrop after redrop to move his ball across the course from a shot he could not make to one that he could make. I have to wonder if the originator of this thread expressed his outrage at decisions like, I will drop next to that sprinkler head so I can gain a redrop and drop next to that drain so I can eventually move my ball farther than most duffers can on a chip out.

All that being said, perhaps Sims nailed it with noting adult beverages must have been consumed.

[JohnV]

Tiger somewhat famously badgered USGA walking rules officials during the US Open at Pebble Beach when he thought he had an unplayable lie (which was not given). PJ Boatright said after the debate that he "clearly got the impression" Tiger wanted to win the US Open that year by 18 strokes (instead of the 15 strokes he did).

Good story.  Too bad PJ Boatwright had been dead for about 10 years at that point.

Please try to use the terms correctly as it just confuses some.  It is Ground Under Repair which is considered an Abnormal Ground Condition, not "an unplayable lie" which as someone else pointed out is something that can only be decided by the player and comes with a one-stroke penalty.

At the US Amateur, this week, there are some areas on the second course (Cedar Ridge) which are far enough out of play that they havent' been marked.  One reason is that they might get bigger due to vehicle traffic so we won't mark them until someone needs relief.  Since there is an official at every hole, we can handle any cases where a player hits his drive 380 yards and 25 yards off line to get into one of them that I saw yesterday.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Dear Vol Mike, thank you for that note. It was right and a gem of a thought. cheers

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Notwithstanding all that prose about a gutless official and in my opinion a self icing move by Wie, she showed herself to be head and shoulders above the rest ball strinking and talent wise. Of course I will limit that to golf talent. I would not want to thread to digress into other areas like who will make the best wife or who takes the best but slap from a caddie awards.

[Bill_McBride]

Coming from an LSU man I thought the thread title was an attempt at a complete sentence and a darned good try at that.  Nobody can string together seven single syllable words like a Tiger.  All it lacked was a word ending in "eaux." 

Bogey

This is clearly an OT SEC duke out.

I was at a dinner party with two Alabama grads.  When I heard one of them say to the other, in an argument over who knows what, "You a pussy," I told them I immediately knew they were Alabama alums when I heard that sentence structure - and the other didn't correct it! 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Bill alabama alums cannot go three sentenses or frankly quiet thoughts without the word bear coming out or into their delusion of past greatness minds. Oh by the by that old drunk bear is still dead. 12 days to kickoff

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