[Patrick_Mucci]

medal play ?

I would offer Fenway, WF, PV and Baltusrol lower, or any course with greens above 11.

[mike_beene]

Courses with a good bit of out of bounds make stroke play a defensive exercise to avoid the big number but dont affect match play nearly as much.

[Sean_A]

None.  I don't draw any distinction between the two forms of the game in terms of architecture because I don't believe they have (had) much (if any) bearing on how courses are designed.  I either like a course enough to go back or I don't.  

Ciao  

[G Jones]

carnoustie... front 9 is a fairly easy level or one or two over par...
...for the back 9 my personal best is about 5 over!

Great match play on the back 9 though!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The stroke index of a number of traditional courses in the UK is weighted with matchplay in mind, and it can make quite a difference to the way you attempt to play certain holes if you know you are getting a stroke's advantage.

[Patrick_Mucci]

None.  I don't draw any distinction between the two forms of the game in terms of architecture because I don't believe they have (had) much (if any) bearing on how courses are designed.  I either like a course enough to go back or I don't.  

Sean,

What's your handicap and how many medal play events do you compete in in a given year ?

[Sean_A]

None.  I don't draw any distinction between the two forms of the game in terms of architecture because I don't believe they have (had) much (if any) bearing on how courses are designed.  I either like a course enough to go back or I don't.  

Sean,

What's your handicap and how many medal play events do you compete in in a given year ?

Pat

9 - I usually avoid medals in favour of Stableford so I play in probably no more than 3 medals a year.  If it comes to that, I probably only play in 6 or so qualifying events (for handicap purposes) a year.  Something like 75%  of my golf is friendly matchplay.

Ciao 

[Dean Stokes]

Pat,

any course that is extremely difficult!!! I would have thought favors matchplay from a fun/stress free standpoint.

Courses with lots of OB and lakes definitely for me are matchplay favorite. Maybe that's just my age showing

[Chris Cupit]

I'll be the odd ball and go in a different direction.  I actually prefer very difficult courses for stroke play.  That's been changing lately but I used to feel that I did a pretty decent job of keeping the ball in play and avoiding any disasters.  The harder, longer and tougher the course the better chance I felt I had. 

I was a very good junior player because I could shoot 75 on a realy tough and long course but I never "learned" to go low and get used to shooting great scores.  Consequently whenever I got 2 or 3 under I was not in my comfort zone and inevitabely made enough bogies to get back there!  (If I were teaching a junior I would certainly have him play courses easy enough and often enough to get him used to shooting mid sixties).

I enjoy match play but I'd rather play an easier course where both players can free wheel it and make a bunch of birdies or be able to make terrific recovery shots because the rough is't so deep or the course isn't lined with trees or OB.  Some of the most boring matches I've ever been in or officated at were on real tough courses or in severe conditions where pars and bogies battled it out.

My home course is nice in that there are a lot of birdies possible but also a bunch of disasters.  But, I think that's the most fun regardless of type of play.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Sean,

I've always disliked courses where a particular hole, or even a particular feature can result in the ruination of a round.

I recall playing a difficult course from the back tees.
I had 17 pars and 1 bogie.
There was Out of Bounds on 9 holes, although some of it was not immediately adjacent to the fairway/green.
But, one of our group hit two out on the 2nd hole.  Another hit one out on the 3rd hole and another on the 5th hole.

Imagine, if instead of hitting the fairway on # 2 or 3 or 5 that I hit one or more OB.
That would have ruined a really, really, really great round.  So, for me, I'd relish playing a match on that course and dislike playing in a medal play competition.

Likewise I was playing the Medalist in Florida, had a great round going, but, hit two in the water, one off the tee at # 10, where I dropped my ball at the point of entry and was lucky to have holed out a 7-iron for a birdie, and another on # 15 where I wasn't lucky enough to hole out.
With the Medalist, you can be playing great, but, be only one swing away from an X and a ruined round.

On those type of courses, I prefer match play.

I'm surprised that you don't draw any distinction.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I'll be the odd ball and go in a different direction.  I actually prefer very difficult courses for stroke play.  That's been changing lately but I used to feel that I did a pretty decent job of keeping the ball in play and avoiding any disasters.  The harder, longer and tougher the course the better chance I felt I had. 

Chris,  I might be able to get you to change your mind.
Winged Foot, Quaker Ridge and Fenway are probably within 2 miles of each other.
Let me get those greens to 12 and you might change your mind ..... quickly.
Hitting a great drive and a long 3 iron to six feet, and then 4 putting is NO FUN.
I think there's a line of demarcation where green speeds go from challenging to ridiculous, especially on sloped and/or contoured greens.

I was a very good junior player because I could shoot 75 on a realy tough and long course but I never "learned" to go low and get used to shooting great scores.  Consequently whenever I got 2 or 3 under I was not in my comfort zone and inevitabely made enough bogies to get back there!  (If I were teaching a junior I would certainly have him play courses easy enough and often enough to get him used to shooting mid sixties).

That's interesting.
Years ago, before a tournament, Peter Kostis told me to go play my course from the forward or ladies tees to get used to shooting low.
At the time I questioned the advice, but came to realize it was a "comfort zone" factor.

I enjoy match play but I'd rather play an easier course where both players can free wheel it and make a bunch of birdies or be able to make terrific recovery shots because the rough is't so deep or the course isn't lined with trees or OB. 


Have I got the ultimate golf course for you ....... NGLA

Some of the most boring matches I've ever been in or officated at were on real tough courses or in severe conditions where pars and bogies battled it out.

My home course is nice in that there are a lot of birdies possible but also a bunch of disasters.  But, I think that's the most fun regardless of type of play.

[Chris Cupit]

I'll be the odd ball and go in a different direction.  I actually prefer very difficult courses for stroke play.  That's been changing lately but I used to feel that I did a pretty decent job of keeping the ball in play and avoiding any disasters.  The harder, longer and tougher the course the better chance I felt I had. 

Chris,  I might be able to get you to change your mind.
Winged Foot, Quaker Ridge and Fenway are probably within 2 miles of each other.
Let me get those greens to 12 and you might change your mind ..... quickly.
Hitting a great drive and a long 3 iron to six feet, and then 4 putting is NO FUN.
I think there's a line of demarcation where green speeds go from challenging to ridiculous, especially on sloped and/or contoured greens.

I was a very good junior player because I could shoot 75 on a realy tough and long course but I never "learned" to go low and get used to shooting great scores.  Consequently whenever I got 2 or 3 under I was not in my comfort zone and inevitabely made enough bogies to get back there!  (If I were teaching a junior I would certainly have him play courses easy enough and often enough to get him used to shooting mid sixties).

That's interesting.
Years ago, before a tournament, Peter Kostis told me to go play my course from the forward or ladies tees to get used to shooting low.
At the time I questioned the advice, but came to realize it was a "comfort zone" factor.

I enjoy match play but I'd rather play an easier course where both players can free wheel it and make a bunch of birdies or be able to make terrific recovery shots because the rough is't so deep or the course isn't lined with trees or OB. 


Have I got the ultimate golf course for you ....... NGLA

Some of the most boring matches I've ever been in or officated at were on real tough courses or in severe conditions where pars and bogies battled it out.

My home course is nice in that there are a lot of birdies possible but also a bunch of disasters.  But, I think that's the most fun regardless of type of play.

I love WFW--first year I ever played in the Anderson my partner and I won--(finals match was 10&9 back when it was 36 holes and neither of us had a clue how hard the west really was )  I actually think I'd have a better chance relative to the feild on the west versus the east even though I do think the east is a little easier.  Obviously greens on both are severe and nothing is as crazy as #8 East.  Played QR but not Fenway.  There is a bunch of great golf in that one little area.  Actually as I think about it, the East may have more severe greens and more potential "blow up" holes than the West.  #5-8, #12, 13, 15, &17!!  It is possible though to play really well and bogey damn near every hole on either course. 

12 on the stimp would be brutal although I've played in a lot of Andersons and they had some years with some VERY fast green speeds (and obviously you have a partner).  Anyway, I'd be willing to take a thrashing just to play those courses again!

I love NGLA and if I only had one course I could play for the rest of my life it would be there.  I have been so fortunate to be able tio play all over the world and many fine courses and I think NGLA is as close to the perfect course, perfect atmosphere, perfect everything as it gets in golf.

BTW, my "comfort zone" has been heading steadily "north" for years now

[Greg Tallman]

I like ANY course for match play... the head to head competition is the real draw and quite a rush. Of course being a scraper who dusted far better "looking" players often back in the day my affinity for match play is understandable. Nothing like drop kicking a drive, chunking your second and then stuffing a 50 yard pitch while your opponent hits it 315, stiffs his second and then misses a 5 footer... game over after a couple of holes like that.

[Sean_A]

Sean,

I've always disliked courses where a particular hole, or even a particular feature can result in the ruination of a round.

I recall playing a difficult course from the back tees.
I had 17 pars and 1 bogie.
There was Out of Bounds on 9 holes, although some of it was not immediately adjacent to the fairway/green.
But, one of our group hit two out on the 2nd hole.  Another hit one out on the 3rd hole and another on the 5th hole.

Imagine, if instead of hitting the fairway on # 2 or 3 or 5 that I hit one or more OB.
That would have ruined a really, really, really great round.  So, for me, I'd relish playing a match on that course and dislike playing in a medal play competition.

Likewise I was playing the Medalist in Florida, had a great round going, but, hit two in the water, one off the tee at # 10, where I dropped my ball at the point of entry and was lucky to have holed out a 7-iron for a birdie, and another on # 15 where I wasn't lucky enough to hole out.
With the Medalist, you can be playing great, but, be only one swing away from an X and a ruined round.

On those type of courses, I prefer match play.

I'm surprised that you don't draw any distinction.

Pat

It may not be so surprising to you if you knew that I am not a fan of difficult courses.  There are very few championship courses I have played which I really like.  I generally refer shorter, sporty courses which can be had on your day, but much more often than bite you here and there. After examining why I was bitten, I find it was entirely down to a shortcoming on my part that particular round which may not exist the next day.

Ciao

[Sean Leary]

Prairie Dunes.

Pat, you played a US Mid Am there. What was that like?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Sean Leary,

Prairie Dunes is a wonderful golf course at Match and/or Medal play.

Chris Cupit,

We agree on NGLA, there is something so unique and so special about that golf course.

Get over to Fenway the next time you play WF, it's on the same road.

Sean Arble,

My preference is also for "sporty" courses, provided that green speeds don't get goofy.

[Kalen Braley]

Based on the above comments...

The Idaho Club in Sandpoint, ID would be my recommendation for match play.  Just a beautiful course that is really tough and has plenty of heroic shots to be played...

Can't think of a venue i'd love more to play matchplay than this one!!!

[Carl Nichols]

Pat:
I agree that a course with difficult and super-fast greens is often more fun for match play than medal.  Today we played the first round of a 36- hole medal event [really the only members' medal event we have], and with double-cut and rolled greens, most putts were a grind, because you're thinking about not wanting to putt a 3 1/2 or 4 footer if you miss. 

[Chris Cupit]

medal play ?

I would offer Fenway, WF, PV and Baltusrol lower, or any course with greens above 11.

Fenway aside as I know nothing about it, I would suggest that for a good player in control of his game, PV may be the "easiest" of the courses you mentioned   I used to play in the Baltusrol event and the last round is count 'em all and any two man score of 150 or less always made up ground.  PV is scary but aside from #5 I think if you are playing well there is more than enough room off the tee and the greens did not seem as difficult to me as WFW (except for #2 at PV!!).

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chris,

The last time I played PV I didn't miss a fairway.
They're very generous, but, I don't think the drive is where all the trouble is.
When they get those greens higher than 10 I think you can have your hands full at medal play.

I used to play in the Baltusrol invitation.
The alternate shot round often ended partnerships and/or friendships.
It used to come in the morning until I convinced them to put the best ball format in the morning with the alternate shot play after lunch.  150 in the third round always made up ground, but, the alternate shot format could be a killer, especially in the early days of the tournament when it was held in October and it could get very cold in the morning.

2, 3 and 4 foot Downhill/sidehiller's at stimps of 12 or more can age a man quicker than a bad marriage.
Especially on a right to left putt where you decelerate and pull the putt, leaving you an 8 footer on the return.

None of those courses' greens  were ever intended for stimps that high.

And, the danger with stimps that high is that hole locations get lost and the next thing you know committees want to flatten those wonderful character ladden greens to accomodate higher speeds.

10 to 11 should be the max with a max of 10 on sloped/contoured greens

[mike_beene]

I think of Hoylake as the best example of OB making stroke play a grind for medal.It is the stroke and distance element.Nothing worse in stroke play than hitting two shots OB that are not far off line and having multiple holes where this danger exists.Water doesn't generally have same effect,except for the island green type set ups where water is basically a retee.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

The first 8 holes at Quaker Ridge have OB on the right.

They hold an annual amateur medal play tournament there every year, the Hochster.
Many a round is ruined in the first few holes.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Pat - I've worked 2 Hochster's now, and very rarely is a round played under par. Maybe 2-3 people break par in 1 of their rounds, only the winner will do it twice, if that! Funny thing is though, most rounds are ruined on #9, the shortest hole on the course!


I felt like Kingsbarns would an incredible course for match play. The drivable par-4 on the front, #16 the par-3 over water and #18 being my highlights why.

[mike_beene]

Pat,I can relate:my club has fairly tight out of bounds left on 6 of the front nine holes. We play our club championship three rounds medal. It is frankly a grind. I finally just decided to accept an OB a round.For years the course record of 64 had an out of bounds on the card. (The kid who won the US Boys Ametuer shot a 61 a few weeks ago with no OB but the benefit of summer greens).Out of bounds as it used to be would totally change my stroke play attitude.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Pat, I think courses with a good number of risk reward shots make for superior match play courses. I find that is part of the orignial appeal to Augusta National is the back 9 with 11,12,13,15 and 16 having tremendous drama to the shot selection. It actually makes a stroke play event play like a match play tourney.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()