Stone Eagle

[Jason Topp]

My post from March, 2006:


"StoneEagle - One of the most unique courses I have ever played.  Very steep site.  Because the fairways blend together, your view from the tee is often of a lot of grass with bunkers, rock areas and canyons sprinkled all over the place.  A lot of room off the tee, but very interesting driving because of the desire to be aggressive with length and line.

The greens represent the true test of the ideal espoused by many on this site of sacrificing speed for interesting contours.  It will be interesting to see how it is received over time because when playing it once, you can hit a pretty good iron shot and be left with an impossible two putt.  By the same token, it is really fun to use the slopes on the green to feed shots to the pin.  In addition, when putting the longer grass on the green creates some grain that definitely has an impact.  When combined with the slopes on the greens as well as the steep nature of the property, it is a real challenge to get it in the hole.

Many of the people we talked with in the area do not know what to make of the course.  My guess is that people will enjoy it more and more with repeat play.  It is so unlike your typical desert course that it definitely is an acquired taste. 
 
The course was in terrific condition."

[John Kirk]

I absolutely agree with the brillance of the routing given the land facts. I think  Tom did an incredible job. Nothwithstanding that it is far from the top of the desert golf heap. There is a nice small club in Carefree that has a firm grip on that trophy.

Hi Tiger,

I've never played Desert Forest, so what the hell do I know.
Nevertheless, I'm simply not buying that Desert Forest is a better golf course.

[Damon Groves]

You played Stone Eagle in mid August?  Thanks for your bravery as well as your comments.

Tom -

I had to take the day that was offered to me but lucked out. We tee'd off at 9:30 and we never got above 100. Given I live in the San Gabriel Valley of LA I play plenty in 90+ degree heat.

Again, a very special place that I hope to be lucky enough to play again some day. Still playing the holes over in my head.

[Matt_Ward]

 PFerlicca:

Thanks for the memorable pics.

I really liked the course too. Two of my favorite holes are the back-to-back par-4 4th and 5th holes. So different and yet so interesting. I really like when architects don't eschew uphill holes because far too many people whine the same laments that such holes are not good or fair or other such drivel.

I also like the 18th -- arguably the best closing hole in all of the greater Palm Springs area. The left side is where the risky play is but should you pull it off you can get a decent rollout and a much shorter shot to a fascinating target that is well protected and offers a superb view of the immediate Cochella Valley area.

Routing a layout in such a demanding site is no small feat.

Hats off to you and those folks who play the layout in the coolest time of the year -- summer !

[jkinney]

I absolutely agree with the brillance of the routing given the land facts. I think  Tom did an incredible job. Nothwithstanding that it is far from the top of the desert golf heap. There is a nice small club in Carefree that has a firm grip on that trophy.

Hi Tiger,

I've never played Desert Forest, so what the hell do I know.
Nevertheless, I'm simply not buying that Desert Forest is a better golf course.

I've played Desert Forest. Red Lawrence's layout is the best test of golf in the Phoenix area, IMO. When it was built, there was nothing surrounding it out there in Carefree. Now, unfirtunately, it feels a bit cramped in amongst the development. It still remains a golfers' club, with many lower handicappers, but it appears to have been usurped by Whisper Rock somewhat in that category. Its holes are beautifully laid out, and its greens are fast. Over time, I suspect that Stone Eagle may outrank Desert Forest due to its great beauty and protection from housing. We'll see.

[rjsimper]

Pferlicca -
You are an assistant pro so you must be a pretty good player.  Do you really think 18 is one of the hardest finishing holes you've played anywhere?

Most spectacular yes, exhilarating sure, fun? you bet. But the tee shot funnels a bit, its severely downhill so length is absolutely not a concern....a garden variety 275 yard tee shot will roll out to about 350 down there, and you are left with a challenging but not impossible short iron shot to the green.

You can make a big number there for sure, but I think the reward of hitting 2 excellent shots is a reasonable chance at birdie.  It's an intimidating hole absolutely, but I think that there are scores of more difficult holes.

For the record, I love Stone Eagle and have named it on this site as being in my top 10 courses I'd play for the rest of my life in limited rota...it covers me for mountain golf, desert golf, fun quotient, and spectacular scenery all at once.

[Peter Ferlicca]

Pferlicca -
You are an assistant pro so you must be a pretty good player.  Do you really think 18 is one of the hardest finishing holes you've played anywhere?

Most spectacular yes, exhilarating sure, fun? you bet. But the tee shot funnels a bit, its severely downhill so length is absolutely not a concern....a garden variety 275 yard tee shot will roll out to about 350 down there, and you are left with a challenging but not impossible short iron shot to the green.

You can make a big number there for sure, but I think the reward of hitting 2 excellent shots is a reasonable chance at birdie.  It's an intimidating hole absolutely, but I think that there are scores of more difficult holes.

For the record, I love Stone Eagle and have named it on this site as being in my top 10 courses I'd play for the rest of my life in limited rota...it covers me for mountain golf, desert golf, fun quotient, and spectacular scenery all at once.

It really is, when I think through my head of other hard finishing holes I have played none of them even compare.  Ryan you have to play it multiple times to really realize the difficulty of the golf hole.  Yes the tee shot funnels and if you hit a good drive are left with anywhere from 180 to 165, but like I said with all the humps and bumps in the fairway it is NEVER a level lie.  You then have to hit a high lofted iron shot that will land soft on the green.  If the pin is anywhere left on the top tier of the green and you shot doesn't land up there GOOD LUCK making a par.  If the pin is front right in the lower level of the green it then makes it a reasonable par.  If you end up in one of those fronting bunkers GOOD LUCK making a par.  There has been soo many times where I hit the green in regulation but three put for a bogey, and then there are tons of times where I miss the green in regulation can't get up and down due to the severity of the green and make a bogey.  During our member guest two years ago, it was howling wind probably up to 30 to 40 mph per hour.  The 18th was playing downwind; you would think it would be easy then right, WRONG.  Yes people were hitting 350 to 400 yard drives leaving themselves with wedges in, BUT the green was sooooo firm from all the wind that even if you landed it a yard on the front it would take a huge bounce and roll off the back, resulting in chipping back into the wind; tons of double bogies were recorded.  A lot of the older members just play it as a par 5.  Ryan if you play there again just putt around on the green and realize how severe it is.

[Garland Bayley]

P,

Sounds exactly like what Geoff Oglivy advocates for a PGA championship. I say send the pros there in August and let them suffer for their millions.
 

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, gents, for a very pleasant read and the wonderful pictures.

It's been mentioned before, but didn't they film Mr. Geiberger and his son Brent playing there, from the same tees, with AG then (and still now at 70) more than able to hold his own.  He seems to love the place, and since Mr 59 seems such a lovely gentlemen, the club-course must be a lovely place too.  Makes me wish Dean Martin was still alive and 30 years younger - you probably couldn't get him ever to leave Palm Desert, even to make a fortune on his next Matt Helm picture. He'd probably get them to write a script in which Matt Helm has to save Stone Eagle from destruction while riding around in a golf cart with two babes and a bucket full of gin and tonic, and hitting long drives with golf balls that are actually mini-grenades. 

Peter

[Mike Hendren]

Heretofore, I haven't fancied a round at Stone Eagle - desert golf just isn't my thing.  BUT, the photograph below captures my imagination.  The connectedness of the turf suggests a large playing field rather than a collection of isolated golf holes, and one would only need to grass over the protruding rock formations to yield a surprising kinship to the more dramatic linksland of Scotland and Ireland. 



I like it.

Bogey

[John Kirk]

There's a problem with the "garden variety 275 yard drive" concept.  How many players can hit a 275 yard drive?

It's about 320 yards, steeply downhill, to carry through the gap to an area perhaps 60-70 yards wide.  But it's only about 30 yards wide at the 290 mark.  Balls do tend to funnel down to the point 280-290 yards off the tee.  I'd estimate that a drive which carries 240-255 yards on flat ground needs to be accurate to +/- 15 yards or so.

The drive spooke me so much that I typically hit bunt driver, carrying about 210-220 and rolling the remianing 75 yards down to the pinch point, and then take my chances with a 7-wwod from 205 out.

[rjsimper]

John,

I was talking mainly about PFerlicca specifically, who I assume to be a good player.

I think there's also something to be said for that hole being one that gets into your head over time...like a 1 at Pacific Dunes for example. Do you think 18 at SE has gotten easier or more difficult for you over time as you learn where you can get in trouble?  Admittedly, I have only played it thrice.

[Peter Ferlicca]

John,

I was talking mainly about PFerlicca specifically, who I assume to be a good player.

I think there's also something to be said for that hole being one that gets into your head over time...like a 1 at Pacific Dunes for example. Do you think 18 at SE has gotten easier or more difficult for you over time as you learn where you can get in trouble?  Admittedly, I have only played it thrice.

Ryan, 

It is definitely a hole that gets in your head, like I said if you have a good round going and you stand on 17 tee looking to the right to see where the flag is on 18, it is already in your head thinking about how you are going to attack it.  So then you are done playing 17 hopefully making a birdie or par, and then you step onto the 501 tee thinking about what to do.  For a while I would hit a low three wood that would end up in the fattest part of the fairway, but would leave myself around 200 to 220 yards, which then you have to hit a really high long iron into that green.  Pretty much now though I just aim up the left side rocks and hit my cut with my driver, the only problem with a driver though is if you push it or overcut it you are in the rocks to the right.

The driving isn't as hard as the putting green though, I will say it again, if the pin is on the top tier to the left, 5 is a good score.  Whenever I play match play with my buddies and it comes down to 18, usually a 5 wins.  But when the pin is front right in a very accessible location pars and birdies are too makeable.  From the front right to the back left there is probably over 6 to 7 feet in change.

[George Pazin]

Thanks for the photos and the thoughts, Mr. Ferlicca. I will make it a point to look up your other threads on SE.

Doesn't look like that tough a walk to me... And as for the heat, I work in a sweatshop, so I am more than conditioned to withstand almost anything.

I have a friend who recently competed in and in fact completed the insanity known as Badwater. Google it sometime if you want to see how crazy some folks are!

[Joel Zuckerman]

It's been mentioned before, but didn't they film Mr. Geiberger and his son Brent playing there, from the same tees, with AG then (and still now at 70) more than able to hold his own.  He seems to love the place, and since Mr 59 seems such a lovely gentlemen, the club-course must be a lovely place too. 

I had the unique pleasure of playing an otherwise-deserted Stone Eagle with "Mr. 59" himself when I was in the area writing Pete Dye Book chapters in the spring of 2007.  It was a rare occasion when I was "moonlighting," IE--taking time away from a consistently grueling "Dye-tinerary" to check out a course of interest in the area.  Two occasions stand out:  Playing Wolf Run, on my way back to Indy from the Purdue GC, and certainly the afternoon I spent at the dazzlingly beautiful Stone Eagle, with Mr. Geiberger as my playing companion.  Unforgettable course, unforgettable experience.

[Matt_Ward]

I tend to agree with Ryan -- surprise / surprise -- the 18th at Stone Eagle plays more demanding for those who can't motor the ball off the tee. I hit two (2) balls on the hole -- the first was pushed right and the second left me about 130 yards into the green -- the day I played there was a gentle breeze from right-to-left. No matter how well you bust the shot the approach requires a keen awaremess on just where the pin is located.

For the mid to shorter length players the hole can be a par-5 type hole. No doubt the downhill nature of the hole will allow tee shots to run out -- but the uphill approach does compensate a good bit for that.

As I said before -- the back-to-back par-4 holes on the front -- #4 and #5 are well done and a great contrast. I really like when the pin is all-the-way back left on #4 because the fall-off in the rear needs to be realized or a high score is likely.

[Peter Ferlicca]

I tend to agree with Ryan -- surprise / surprise -- the 18th at Stone Eagle plays more demanding for those who can't motor the ball off the tee. I hit two (2) balls on the hole -- the first was pushed right and the second left me about 130 yards into the green -- the day I played there was a gentle breeze from right-to-left. No matter how well you bust the shot the approach requires a keen awaremess on just where the pin is located.

For the mid to shorter length players the hole can be a par-5 type hole. No doubt the downhill nature of the hole will allow tee shots to run out -- but the uphill approach does compensate a good bit for that.

As I said before -- the back-to-back par-4 holes on the front -- #4 and #5 are well done and a great contrast. I really like when the pin is all-the-way back left on #4 because the fall-off in the rear needs to be realized or a high score is likely.

Mr. Ward if you don't mind me asking what tees did you play. 

The tee I keep refering too is an extra tee that rarely ever gets used, they never even put the tees on it, maybe once every two weeks.   If you played from the whites it makes it a fairly easy golf hole, leaving wedges into the green.  I doubt even Ryan played the tee I keep referencing too.  About 5% of the members even play from that 501 tee.

[Garland Bayley]

I tend to agree with Ryan -- surprise / surprise -- the 18th at Stone Eagle plays more demanding for those who can't motor the ball off the tee. I hit two (2) balls on the hole -- the first was pushed right and the second left me about 130 yards into the green -- the day I played there was a gentle breeze from right-to-left. No matter how well you bust the shot the approach requires a keen awaremess on just where the pin is located.

For the mid to shorter length players the hole can be a par-5 type hole. No doubt the downhill nature of the hole will allow tee shots to run out -- but the uphill approach does compensate a good bit for that.

As I said before -- the back-to-back par-4 holes on the front -- #4 and #5 are well done and a great contrast. I really like when the pin is all-the-way back left on #4 because the fall-off in the rear needs to be realized or a high score is likely.

Do what did you end up with? Double or triple?

[Matt_Ward]

PFerlicca:

I generally always play from the tips unless they are either not available or yet been opened.

Can you tell me your comments on the nature of the 4th and 5th holes -- both often fly below the radar screen.

[Tom_Doak]

When I was out at Stone Eagle a couple of years ago, one of the Geiberger sons (not Brent but his brother who caddies for him sometimes) was telling me how short #18 could play, and I suggested that he could play the hole from the back tee of #10 instead, right above #17 green.

When I was out there again last fall, Al G. said his sons now play the hole from there all the time and it is a great two-shot hole for them ... at about 560 yards!  They have to bust a good drive just to get to the top of the fairway above the funnel.

[Peter Ferlicca]

When I was out at Stone Eagle a couple of years ago, one of the Geiberger sons (not Brent but his brother who caddies for him sometimes) was telling me how short #18 could play, and I suggested that he could play the hole from the back tee of #10 instead, right above #17 green.

When I was out there again last fall, Al G. said his sons now play the hole from there all the time and it is a great two-shot hole for them ... at about 560 yards!  They have to bust a good drive just to get to the top of the fairway above the funnel.

Haha yeah that is Bryan Gieberger, he absolutley busts his driver and hits it dead straight every time.  I think he was just bragging to you trying to sound like a hotshot because from when I have seen him play 18 from the 501 tee I haven't seen him make a birdie or par.  But yeah the couple time I have played it from the #10 tee your ball is left up on the top shelf and have about 220 left into the green.  I doubt that Bryan ever hits it over 360 yards from that tee to get it down in to the slot, he doesn't play out there anymore though so I haven't seen him in a while.

[Steve Lang]

 ..  TD.  did you ever play from #16 tee to #17 green at Black Forest?  we found it quite fun last month

[Peter Ferlicca]

PFerlicca:

I generally always play from the tips unless they are either not available or yet been opened.

Can you tell me your comments on the nature of the 4th and 5th holes -- both often fly below the radar screen.

Mr. Ward,

IMO holes 4 through 6 are the strongest part of the golf course.  Hole 4 has a great tee shot that dives hard and left, and then the approach to the green is fantastic, if you are too far right to a right pin you can't see the pin, but yet if you are too far left on the fairway the ball will be extremely above your feet which makes it hard to feed it into the right pin.  As you know the green extremely slopes, it has a huge ridge right in the middle then two pockets on the front right and front left.  Over the tons of times playing the hole you want to be on the left side of the fairway for a left pin and then the right side of the fairway for a right pin even if you can't see it.  This sounds normal but once you know the slope of the fairway it is actually quite opposite.

Hole 5 is just mesmerizing, you tee off over that deep ravine to an uphill golf hole.  Then the second shot is into a green that just juts out into the ravine.  The closer you hit your shot too the ravine on the left the less distance and easier shot you have into the green, if you spray your tee shot to right you are blocked by a big hump in the fairway.  The thing I love about this hole is how you can feed it into the green.  If you hit your approach shot with a draw over the front right greenside bunker it will take the huge hump in the green and funnel right to the middle.  I love watching the old guys hit a shot and think it is going to be bad and then watch their reaction when they approach the green and see it a couple of feet from the hole.

Hole 6 is my favorite golf hole on the course.  IMO just standing on the tee gives you goose bumps.  You have to hit a soft cut off the tee to have a good angle and lie into the green.  Then on your approach you have short iron or wedge in your hand with the ball below your feet hitting into a green that has probably a 10 foot deep bunker on the right side that is very easy to hit into.  The green is a skyline green that has a great view behind it.

3 fantastic par 4s in a row.

[Carl Nichols]

The connectedness of the turf suggests a large playing field rather than a collection of isolated golf holes, and one would only need to grass over the protruding rock formations to yield a surprising kinship to the more dramatic linksland of Scotland and Ireland. 

I like it.

Bogey

I had a similar reaction:  in a few pics, the holes almost remind me of The Island (outside of Dublin), if you substituted dunes and high grass for the mountains/rocks.  It looks terrific. 

[Matt_Ward]

Someone asked me the other day -- he has played Stone Eagle -- and it boiled down to his belief that being in the Palm Springs area hurts the overall standing of the course. His take was that Palm Springs is hurt in having a general reputation for mundane golf design. I brushed that off rather quickly -- but I wonder how others sense it. I think the course is quite good in many areas -- albeit behind the likes of Ballyneal and Rock Creek, two more recent Doak openings.

I told my friend that the very nature of the design at Stone Eagle creates a clear differentiation between what's there and what's available at so many other locations.