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John_Conley

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Professional golf's youth movement...or lack of
« on: August 17, 2009, 01:02:32 PM »
Perhaps the biggest issue facing architects over the past decade, some would argue longer, is the length of young players.  Fear was that the game was going to require less skill and competitive events would be dominated by young bombers.

This has not happened.

What will the impact be on golf design going forward?  Will the trend toward 8,000 yard courses subside?  Will great courses stop looking for ways to add length?

* Tom Watson fininshed regulation t1 in the Open Championship.
* One two players under 30 have ever won a Major.
* A third year Tour member wins the PGA...at age 37.
* Michael Allen and Corey Pavin both finished t19 at a +2 290 at Hazeltine.
* Bob Estes, Bob Tway, Tom Lehman, Fred Couples made the cut.

For all the buzz, the following players did not "change the game":

Anthony Kim
David Gossett
Charles Howell
Sergio Garcia
Camilo Villegas

Will Ryo Ishikawa, Rory Sabatini, and Mu Hu be any different?

I used to think the biggest fallacy in golf was that the next generation of players would all be big and muscular.  Now I'm wondering if that's second behind the notion that young bombers somehow have impacted the sport in a meaningful way.

I'm wondering if one can argue the opposite, that improvements in technology resulted in more benefits for golf's older Tour members.  
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 01:04:54 PM by John_Conley »

George Pazin

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Re: Professional golf's youth movement...or lack of
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2009, 01:31:42 PM »
Now I'm wondering if that's second behind the notion that young bombers somehow have impacted the sport in a meaningful way.

Unfortunately, I think the young bombers have had a great impact on the game, in a very meaningful way: Fear of these bombers has resulted in many modifications of golf courses, as well as in the construction of new courses.

Now, I think that fear is largely unfounded, for most of the reasons you state or suggest. But that doesn't mean the changes weren't made. That is largely what is missing in much of the analysis of golf courses today, imho. The focus seems to be on what a bomber could shoot, what he [/i]could[/i] win, not what he in fact does shoot or does not win.

Everyone knows the thinking: Geez, that guy had a half wedge into the 18th at Augusta!

It's ironic that 2 of the recent birdies to win at Augusta (Mickelson's first, and Tiger beating DiMarco in the playoff) came after the lengthening of the 18th.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tom_Doak

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Re: Professional golf's youth movement...or lack of
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2009, 02:14:46 PM »
John:

It may well be that the improvements in technology have benefited the senior players more than the kids -- but only because they have been allowed to get so out of control that length is seldom a factor for ANYONE anymore. 

Even the Seniors are hitting short irons into greens on 7300-yard courses, while for Villegas, it really doesn't matter whether he's hitting a full 9-iron or a 60-degree wedge.

Tim Bert

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Re: Professional golf's youth movement...or lack of
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2009, 10:22:25 PM »
Anthony Kim is 24 and he's already being charged with "not changing the game."  Did professional golf suddenly turn into female gymnastics? 

I suppose Rory McIlroy just didn't turn out as expected either?

Let's give them some time!

Mike Benham

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Re: Professional golf's youth movement...or lack of
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2009, 10:42:00 PM »

Has there ever been a successful youth movement on the professional golf tours?


"... and I liked the guy ..."

John_Conley

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Re: Professional golf's youth movement...or lack of
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2009, 10:45:11 PM »
Anthony Kim is 24 and he's already being charged with "not changing the game."  Did professional golf suddenly turn into female gymnastics? 

I suppose Rory McIlroy just didn't turn out as expected either?

Let's give them some time!

Tim, Rory is in the next wave of whatever guys you want to include.  I'd put Kim in the wave with Ty Tryon, Adam Scott, Justin Rose, and the guys I mentioned.

This is bigger than any one player.  Conventional wisdom was that young bombers would displace older golfers at the professional level and win tons of tournaments.  They haven't.

Take a look at all the next-big-things that are rank and file Tour pros in their 20s and the surprising number of older guys hanging on to careers.  What Corey Pavin is doing is downright shocking.  He's more successful in the late 00s than he was in the beginning.  That's rare.

John_Conley

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Re: Professional golf's youth movement...or lack of
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2009, 10:45:42 PM »

Has there ever been a successful youth movement on the professional golf tours?




Maybe not, but we were sure led to believe there'd be one this time.

Phil McDade

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Re: Professional golf's youth movement...or lack of
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2009, 11:13:07 PM »


This is bigger than any one player.  Conventional wisdom was that young bombers would displace older golfers at the professional level and win tons of tournaments.  They haven't.

Take a look at all the next-big-things that are rank and file Tour pros in their 20s and the surprising number of older guys hanging on to careers.  What Corey Pavin is doing is downright shocking.  He's more successful in the late 00s than he was in the beginning.  That's rare.

[/quote]

John:

Whose conventional wisdom? I've always thought the modern all-exempt tour, the rise of the Nationwide Tour (where you can now make a decent living in what is essentially the AAA-baseball of golf), and the endorsement money handed out to nearly anyone who can hit a fairway five times a round, would lead to fewer young guys winning, not more. You really don't have to win anymore on the PGA Tour to make a decent living, and I have little doubt that impacts the desire of many of these guys -- not all, but more than you or I might otherwise think -- to truly become multiple winners on the PGA Tour.

I wouldn't get so excited about Pavin; he's won one tournament since 1996, and it was on both the shortest stop on tour -- the GMO in Milwaukee -- and a track perfectly suited for his game. From 1984-1996, he won 14 times on tour, and several others overseas. In the last 20 majors, he's failed to qualify in 14 of them. His last top-10 finish in a major was 10 years ago.

John_Conley

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Re: Professional golf's youth movement...or lack of
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2009, 11:54:58 PM »
Phil, you may not have bought into it, but the sentiment was certainly that long-hitting young players would dominate professional golf.  Tom Marzolf, a top Fazio associate, told a group of us that their shop's working theory was that golf would become a "young man's game" like tennis and that these players would not have long careers because of the stress to their bodies from swinging so hard.  He didn't say he knew he was right, just that it was a premise they were working under.

Wally Uihlein was quoted as saying that there were tons of young players that would dominate professional golf.  (I sent him an e-mail questioning this, he replied, and was kind enough to send me a dozen Pro V1 that arrived when my son was born.  I have a picture of a sleeve of those in his crib when he was only days old.)

There were others which I could cite if I spent more time thinking about it.

Pavin drives it an impossibly short 259.9 average.  I watched him bunt several on the Bay Hill range and knew he'd be at least 20 yards behind any good Division I college player on every hole, with twice that or more short of anyone considered a little bit long.  The man turns 50 in a couple months...most Tour pros don't make cuts past 45.  Where was Chip Beck?  Where is Brad Faxon?  The list goes on and on, and I'm talking about Ryder Cuppers.  He has made about 70 cuts in the past five seasons.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but last place is usually around $10,000 and the Tour puts at least $7,000 into a players retirement plan for each made cut.  He's doing quite well.  Admit it: you (like everyone else) wrote him off around 2002 and figured you *might* see him again on the Senior Tour.  He's plodding along awfully nicely.  290 on the longest Major setup ever?  That wasn't supposed to happen.

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