How Many New Courses are Under Construction Today?

[Tom_Doak]

Scott Weersing:

I have never owned a piece of construction equipment; we just get the owner to lease them for us to use, or get a local contractor to supply them.  A few guys have bought equipment on the premise they could keep it busy; glad I'm not them right now.

[cary lichtenstein]

I keep hearing in the news and reading in the papers that the recession is over. I wonder if anybody really believes that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bill_McBride]

Tom,

Graham Cooke and I are working on an 18-hole course near Quebec City which just broke ground a month ago, and should open in 2011 (Club de Golf Les Boisés de Joly).  We also have an 18 hole course scheduled to open for limited play this fall on Cape-Breton (The Lakes Golf Club), 18 holes under construction in India (Jaypee Greens - Noida), and 9 holes under construction in Italy (Riviera Golf).  Graham and Wayne Carleton are just opening one in BC as well (Shadow Mountain).

We could be busier, like everybody else, but in this economic climate, that's not too bad.

YP

Yannick, where is the Italian Rivera course?  The Cinque Terra would be molto difficulto due to the wild terrain!  But there is a lot of really good local white wine to smooth the path to success!

[Jon Wiggett]

Tom,

will be starting my new project, a 9 hole course in the highlands at the end of september.

[Cliff Hamm]

I keep hearing in the news and reading in the papers that the recession is over. I wonder if anybody really believes that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why does a simple thread on new golf course construction need to evolve into a debate of politics?  Please let us avoid the topics that divide us and simply talk about golf construction.  If it is OT that is one thing.  This thread is not...Enough said...

[Brian Phillips]

None in construction. Re-design work starting in Glasgow next week and hopefully some in Oslo in September.  We have two 18 hole projects awaiting planning permission, one in Portugal and one in Scotland.

[Brian_Ewen]

http://www.golfconstructionnews.com/gcn/index.asp

August 16, 2009
4320  Active Projects
1365  New Projects
2955  Remodels
482  Recent Openings

[Jonathan Cummings]

Brian - that just doesn't seem possible....

[Mike_Young]

http://www.golfconstructionnews.com/gcn/index.asp

August 16, 2009
4320  Active Projects
1365  New Projects
2955  Remodels
482  Recent Openings

Right...I think some guys pay arounda $1000 annually to have that service tell them that.....

[Kalen Braley]

http://www.golfconstructionnews.com/gcn/index.asp

August 16, 2009
4320  Active Projects
1365  New Projects
2955  Remodels
482  Recent Openings

I suppose we're going to need a defintion on those categories because those numbers seem to be in the no f'ing way category.  Even a number at 10% of those figures seems high.

[Derek Dirksen]

We are finishing up the Patriot GC, just outside Tulsa, OK.  It is a RTJ II (Jay Blasi) design.  The last sod should be laid in the next week.

[Tom_Doak]

Brian Ewen:

If you have that Golf Course Construction News, why don't you look up how many projects I supposedly have in the "active" category?  I suspect it's more than five.  They just aren't really "active," because nobody ever officially pulls the plug on them, so they stay on the books there forever.

Cary:

I would say that golf course construction, because of the long lag time between the decision to break ground and a course opening, is a "trailing indicator" of where the economy sits.  However, I can also say that the entire planning industry (architecture, landscape architecture, and golf course architecture) is sucking wind right now, which means there aren't many clients who are optimistic that the economy will have rebounded in another two or three years' time, when a project now in planning would open.  Some of that has to do with the lack of available funding, the rest just with fear.

[Art_Schaupeter]

I have a new nine hole expansion in the Chicago area that is completed and will open next year, another nine hole expansion in Wyoming that is being grassed right now and will also open next year, and an 18 hole remodel in Missouri that will be completed within a month and will also re-open next year.  All of the new 18 hole projects are on hold.  Not sure yet if they are temporary or permanent holds.

Art

[Kyle Harris]

China.

[Derek_Duncan]

The NGF database lists 127 "New Facility" courses "Under Contruction" (last year at this time there were over 400). Doing a quick perusal, I'd guess that half of those listed are in a state of suspension/have never broken ground/have not been updated. Some have been "Under Construction" for about two years.

I can't speak to the accuracy, but after a random perusal it looks like there are about 30 courses with listings updated in the last two months showing target completion dates from Fall '09 to Summer '10.

[BCrosby]

Derek -

Does the NGF tell you how many courses were closed during the relevant periods?

Bob

[Derek_Duncan]

Derek -

Does the NGF tell you how many courses were closed during the relevant periods?

Bob

Bob,

To be honest with you, I don't know if it does. I spent a few minutes looking through the reports and databases and didn't see anything relating course closings. I'll post numbers if I come across them.

[Greg Tallman]

Personally, I have two projects which have just been completed, and will open in 2010 -- the Bay of Dreams and Old Macdonald. 

I haven't heard much if anything about Bay of Dreams.  Can anyone give more info on this course?  

Jim,

Course is about 2 hours north of Cabo or an hour or so southeast of LaPaz. Pretty cool piece of land and the back nine should be quite good. Could not get all that excited about the front nine though it was early on when I last vewied the project and I am sure Tom and his team worked their magic on those few holes where the land was average at best. 11 through 15 will be one of the coolest downhill stretches anywhere. I am not sure just how far you drop from 11 tee to 15 green but my guess would be 225 to 250 feet... Tom?

The course will be rather unique as it may be the only course I have seen to seamlessly incorporate mountain, desert, dunes and ocean into a single 18 hole layout.

They need some search engine advice as it is hard to find the website on google but here you go...

www.bahiasuenos.com

[Greg Tallman]

I can't remember what it is called but I know that Fazio is also finishing up a course in the Cabo area.  I did a guess the course thread on it a while ago, looked pretty nice.

Chileno Bay - Discovery has walked away from a management deal with the current ownership group. The course is basically finished minus a few million in landscaping that is integral to the design. Latest word was that a LOI has been signed with another investor group who would intend to open the course up to the public for the foreseeable future.

Tons of potential... 2 tons of issues/problems. Let's hope it pans out, new business model must be introduced that much is certain.

[Peter Ferlicca]

I can't remember what it is called but I know that Fazio is also finishing up a course in the Cabo area.  I did a guess the course thread on it a while ago, looked pretty nice.

Chileno Bay - Discovery has walked away from a management deal with the current ownership group. The course is basically finished minus a few million in landscaping that is integral to the design. Latest word was that a LOI has been signed with another investor group who would intend to open the course up to the public for the foreseeable future.

Tons of potential... 2 tons of issues/problems. Let's hope it pans out, new business model must be introduced that much is certain.

Thats a shame I know quite a few members who invested a lot of money into that project.  That is also suprising that Discover walked away, I thought that had money out of the wazoooo and could afford the most expensive project for every area they built a course.  If it ends up being public there will be a lot of mad charter members.

[Cliff Hamm]

Kelly...I assume the project you had in Monmouth County, NJ is on hold?

[Greg Tallman]

I can't remember what it is called but I know that Fazio is also finishing up a course in the Cabo area.  I did a guess the course thread on it a while ago, looked pretty nice.

Chileno Bay - Discovery has walked away from a management deal with the current ownership group. The course is basically finished minus a few million in landscaping that is integral to the design. Latest word was that a LOI has been signed with another investor group who would intend to open the course up to the public for the foreseeable future.

Tons of potential... 2 tons of issues/problems. Let's hope it pans out, new business model must be introduced that much is certain.

Thats a shame I know quite a few members who invested a lot of money into that project.  That is also suprising that Discover walked away, I thought that had money out of the wazoooo and could afford the most expensive project for every area they built a course.  If it ends up being public there will be a lot of mad charter members.

I imagine many are up in arms. The master plan for the developement was very appealing minus the public parking lot in the middle. I certainly hope they and the neighboring project get things figured out. The stretch here in the "corridor" between the towns of San Lucas and San José was going to be quite a special little stretch of upscale resort communities/private clubs. We shall see how it all comes out in the wash.

[Ronald Montesano]

I do not know what the status of the Seneca Nation course by Bobby Jones 2 is...it is located down the escarpment, about 10 miles from Niagara Falls (NY) city center.  I will look into it and report.  At last glance, Hickory Stick (the name) had grassed the back and was working on the front, when some evil doings with local politicos pulled the plug on the course.

[Scott Witter]

Hickory Stick is still alive, but barely.  Grassing and other various finishing items continue, but the grow-in has been very difficult this season with the constant rains.  Intentions are to open next spring or early summer.  RTJ2 firm is the architect, but the original designer is no longer with the firm.  As a matter of fact, one of the senior architects of RTJ2, who took over the project about a year or so ago has also been recently been let go.  These are still very tough times for architects, builders and the industry as a whole...see the recent article in Golf Digest about the very real challenges of being a golf architect during the past few years.

[Jim Sweeney]

Better get your Asian operation up and running, Tom.... starting in So. Korea!