News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2009, 08:33:41 PM »
Phil
Are you familiar with the Taylor & Tilly debate and what were they arguing about? Please inform us.  Have you read Wethered & Simpson's book?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 10:15:54 PM by Tom MacWood »

TEPaul

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2009, 08:48:00 PM »
Phil:

Those are some pretty amazing posts you and Tom MacWood put up there recently. You mentioned in one of your posts something about Tom MacWood's conclusions. What do you think his conclusions are on the subject of Tillinghast's PGA course consultation tour and the suggestions Tillinghast made during that tour?

OR, what are your conclusions about Tillinghast's PGA consultation tour, Phil?

OR EVEN, what are your conclusions about Tillinghast's PGA consultation tour, Tom MacWood?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 09:09:31 PM by TEPaul »

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2009, 09:52:55 PM »
Tom Macwood,

You asked, "Phil, Are you familiar with the Taylor & Tilly debate and what they were arguing about? Please inform us..."

Yes, I am.

"Have you read Wethered & Simpson's book?"

It has been quite a while, but yes I have.

Are you willing to accept that the articles from the PGA magazine which you pointed at actually have very little to do with DH removals as you originally claimed, especially as I showed that there were only 2 mentions of them in total and only one was of any substance and that one not even the main point?

In addition, how many of Tilly's letters to the PGA have you read? How many sketches that he left at individual courses have you seen? How many individual course reports have you seen? How many courses have you communicated with to learn whether Tilly's recommendations were followed through on or not?

Tom Paul,

You asked, "Those are some pretty amazing posts you and Tom MacWood put up there recently. You mentioned in one of your posts something about Tom MacWood's conclusions. What do you think his conclusions are on the subject of Tillinghast's PGA course consultation tour and the suggestions Tillinghast made during that tour?"

So far he has shared two conclusions. The first being that the main thrust and purpose of the tour was to rid American courses of "Duffer's Headaches"; that is wrong. The main purpose was to stabilize the PGA of America financially, to establish reasons for the PGA professional to remain such, to provide expert advice to professionals and their clubs for answer to specific problems they had. Where "Duffer's headaches" were involved either in specific questions or as a result of full-course general examinations that he was asked to perform he mentioned and made recommendations about them. They weren't part of any "must-do" agenda but rather were a fairly common architectural mistake of the era and so were a somewhat common suggested removal.

His second conclusion is that he believes "It is debatable if the tour was a positive or negative from an architectural point of view..." He is entitled to his viewpoint. Unfortunately it is based on an a miniscule amount of information at best and so that he has come to this type of a conclusion certainly does not lend itself to being credible./;

"What are your conclusions about Tillinghast's PGA consultation tour, Phil?" I am sharing those as I go along day-by-day. I have alluded to some but that is all. You'll have to wait...

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2009, 10:28:02 PM »
Tom Macwood,

You asked, "Phil, Are you familiar with the Taylor & Tilly debate and what they were arguing about? Please inform us..."

Yes, I am.

"Have you read Wethered & Simpson's book?"

It has been quite a while, but yes I have.

Do you find similarities in Tilly's bunkering ideas (and tree ideas) with those of W&S?

Are you willing to accept that the articles from the PGA magazine which you pointed at actually have very little to do with DH removals as you originally claimed, especially as I showed that there were only 2 mentions of them in total and only one was of any substance and that one not even the main point?

No. If you separate the non-architectural articles from those dealing with architecture there is no doubt the removal of bunkers was his major theme. Do you think the fact that he was able to quantify the savings per bunker removed was a factor?

In addition, how many of Tilly's letters to the PGA have you read? How many sketches that he left at individual courses have you seen? How many individual course reports have you seen? How many courses have you communicated with to learn whether Tilly's recommendations were followed through on or not?

I've read all all the letters on the Tilly site. I've communicated with none of the clubs.


Based upon the positions taken by Taylor & Tilly in their debate do you find it ironic that Tilly took Taylor's position during his PGA Tour?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 10:54:39 PM by Tom MacWood »

David Amarnek

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2009, 10:54:37 PM »
Philip,
Thank you for presenting this interesting topic.
I look forward to see if you have any information regarding Tillinghast's work at Westwood Country Club in St. Louis.  We celebrated our 100th anniversary last year and have a fine book commemorating it's evolution.  There was only a small reference to Tillinghast's visit and no word on any recommendations.  I (and Westwood) would welcome any details you may have.
As a transplanted Philadelphian, I am doubly interested!
David

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2009, 11:58:35 PM »
David,

Thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately you'll have a bit of a wait for Tilly won't reach Westwood for nearly two more years! Don't worry though, IM me with your email address and I'll send you a copy of his letter for the club.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2009, 12:19:40 AM »
Tom Macwood,

You asked, "Do you find similarities in Tilly's bunkering ideas (and tree ideas) with those of W&S?"

I find similarities between Tilly's style(s) and a number of other architects. The reason for this is that Tilly's bunkering was always singular to the land upon which it would be placed and the hole upon which it would hazard. As a result, his bunkers vary not only from course to course but often from hole to hole. They sometimes even vary on the same hole. His use of trees are quite specific and are not influenced by anyone or anything other than beautification of the golf course.

You responded to my question, "Are you willing to accept that the articles from the PGA magazine which you pointed at actually have very little to do with DH removals as you originally claimed, especially as I showed that there were only 2 mentions of them in total and only one was of any substance and that one not even the main point?" with:

"No. If you separate the non-architectural articles from those dealing with architecture there is no doubt the removal of bunkers was his major theme. Do you think the fact that he was able to quantify the savings per bunker removed was a factor? " Tom I am astounded that you can make such a statement after my outlining each and every article you referenced, including the ones you missed by the way, in my response #23. Those articles mentioned DH removals a grand total of 2 times and both were minor points to the articles in which they appear. Yet you contend that their removal was his major theme? I'm sorry Tom, but you'll have to show me exactly WHERE in those articles that occurs.

In response to my questions you answered, "I've read all the letters on the Tilly site. I've communicated with none of the clubs." I am pleased to hear that you read those. As you can see they are but a small fraction of all the ones he wrote. We are hoping to complete the publication of all of them as time permits. My point with that and you admission that you haven't contacted any of the clubs for more information is that you have made a conclusion that the PRIMARY REASON FOR and MAJOR THEME OF the course consultation tour was the removal of DH's. If you had examined ALL of his letters, reports and available sketches you would see that just isn't so.

You asked, "Based upon the positions taken by Taylor & Tilly in their debate do you find it ironic that Tilly took Taylor's position during his PGA Tour?" Again, you are trying to make a point that something occurred that absolutely didn't. Tilly didn't make a sudden and unexpected turning around in his philosophy of design. Once again if you had read what he wrote on these points through the years you would see this. I suggest that you do so. Either that or wait for Volume II to come out in print and you will see it in black and white. In either case I don't intend to discuss this point very much as it is taking away from the thread's topic. I say this because I have received emails that suggest that you are attempting to hijack the thread. I want to state clearly that I don't believe that to be so and that you are asking these things out of genuine interest and curiosity.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2009, 12:22:37 AM »
August 18, 1935:

This was a day for travel. Tilly & Lillian had left Syracuse yesterday and stopped in Jamesville overnight so that he could locate Bill Davidson. This resulted in an early first stop that morning at the Drumlins Country Club. He paid "Particular attention to a bunkering plan for the short seventh green; a new teeing ground for the eighth to provide a proper landing of the drive; a scheme to stop seepage to the twelfth green and opening the fairway on the left of the drive to the fourteenth." He noted how, "This course, like nearly all others had been hit hard by brown patch and scald..."

Through Davidson Tilly now made arrangements to visit two other courses the following Thursday before "the meeting where I am to address and confer with some thirty members of the P.G.A., certain greenkeepers and members of green committees..."

They arrived at the Seneca Hotel in Rochester "early in the evening" and he spent a frustrating night trying to contact several PGA professionals. between home telephones whose service had been discontinued and others where they simply couldn't be located, Tilly wrote that he would have to "wait until morning and go directly to the Rochester Country Club where, of course, I will find everyone..."

Total courses visited: 12

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2009, 06:24:54 AM »
Phil
Singular to the land? You are obviously not familiar with Wethered & Simpson's bunkering theories, nor their book. Here is graphic example of what I'm talking about regarding the broken line for trees. Don't you find Tilly's diagram very similar to W&S's?

What is up with you. Why do you always repeat your question and my answer. We know what you asked and what I answered. I think most people can follow a thread and you are wasting valuable cyber space. The concept of bunker removal is the only recurring theme in those articles and it is mentioned more than twice. It is also recurring theme in the PGA press releases on the project and the only Tilly interview on the project that I'm aware of. Do you think one of the reasons bunker removal was emphasized above his other possible suggestions was because they could quantify the cost savings?

If you don't think Tilly's theories during his PGA tour are a departure from his previous ideas (and in particular what he was arguing for and against Taylor) I worry about volume II.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 06:36:09 AM by Tom MacWood »

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2009, 09:07:55 AM »
Great stuff Phil. Thanks.

Are there any indications in the Tilly materials that the changes he recommended in the mid-30's were influenced by ANGC, which was completed in '33?

Bob

TEPaul

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2009, 09:29:06 AM »
"If you don't think Tilly's theories during his PGA tour are a departure from his previous ideas (and in particular what he was arguing for and against Taylor) I worry about volume II."


Tom:

If Tilly's theories during the PGA tour were a departure in some ways from his previous ideas, so what? Most good architects did, have and do evolve their ideas about architecture as time goes along. Depending on how and why Tilly may've departed in some ways from his previous ideas may not necessarily constitute him 'selling out his principles' as you accused him of doing during that PGA tour on a thread you started of that title ("Did Tilly sell out his principles?") some years ago.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2009, 01:06:18 PM »
Bob,

Tilly was well aware of what Bob Jones for Augusta were for he visited and spent tiome with Tilly at his home in Harrington Park in either 1932 or 33. We have proof of this from his granddaughter who answers to the nickname of "Bobby Jo" to this day because of something that she did during this visit.

As to whether he modelled suggestions after what was done at Augusta the problem with that is whether Jones followed any of Tilly's ideas in what they did. I don't suggest this lightly, but rather based upon what Tilly did in Atlanta in 1928 at the Colonial Golf Club which met its immediate demise at opening because of the collapse of the stock market (it was financed by a public stock offering). Bobby Jones was asked to serve on the Board of Directors and so he was at least minimally involved. The importance of this in your question is because the design called for a golf course "with no rough." Newspaper accounts quopting Tilly stated that this would be the first time in America that a course would be designed and built without rough. I don't know if that is true, but certainly it predates even the beginning of plans for Augusta. So the question needs asking, did Bob Jones get the ide of no rough for Augusta from Tilly at Colonial?

Regardless of what each knew about the other, there is simply no record of Tilly visiting Augusta that I know of after it was built and before the Tour (or after for that matter). For Tilly to have been influenced by Augusta to the extent that he would advise changes to courses based upon it I would expect that he would have had tom see it in person to do so. Since he didn't, I don't see that it happened.

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2009, 01:20:57 PM »
Bob
Bethpage-Black was designed in early 1934 and was the antithesis of Augusta National.

TEP
At least you are acknowledging his later principals were a complete departure...Phil doesn't even see it. You might not think it is interesting that he took an about face and adopted the ideas he had argued against, but I do.

TEPaul

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2009, 01:43:42 PM »
"TEP
At least you are acknowledging his later principals were a complete departure...Phil doesn't even see it. You might not think it is interesting that he took an about face and adopted the ideas he had argued against, but I do."


Tom:

A complete departure from earlier principles? Perhaps you should specifically define what-all you think that means and involves since those kinds of blanket statements of yours don't generally cut it around here.   ;)

What about face are you speaking of? Bunkering?

What ideas did he later adopt he had argued against earlier?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 01:48:37 PM by TEPaul »

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2009, 02:07:42 PM »
Tom,

You stated, "Singular to the land? You are obviously not familiar with Wethered & Simpson's bunkering theories, nor their book. Here is graphic example of what I'm talking about regarding the broken line for trees. Don't you find Tilly's diagram very similar to W&S's?"

Tom, over and over you simply are singular in what you want to say to the extent that you neither pay attention to what was said, but both misapplying it and even going to the extent of ignoring what you yourself actually asked.

Tom in your post #28: "Do you find similarities in Tilly's bunkering ideas (and tree ideas) with those of W&S?"

It seems obvious to those of us who can read that you considered the "bunkering ideas" to be of greater importance in your question that "(and tree ideas)" by the simple fact that you placed it in parentheses. Whether or not that is true doesn't matter as it is obvious that you view them as two separate things. I ANSWERED this question in two parts SEPARATING BUNKERS FROM TREES.

Phil's answer in post #31: "I find similarities between Tilly's style(s) and a number of other architects. The reason for this is that Tilly's bunkering was always singular to the land upon which it would be placed and the hole upon which it would hazard. As a result, his bunkers vary not only from course to course but often from hole to hole. They sometimes even vary on the same hole. His use of trees are quite specific and are not influenced by anyone or anything other than beautification of the golf course."

Yes, Tom, his BUNKERS were SINGULAR TO THE LAND! I didn't state that about the TREES. So why did you both APPLY MY ANSWER to TREES and do so while LEAVING OUT the phrase "Tilly's BUNKERING" there by CHANGING MY WORDS AND MEANING? That was deliberate with the intent to PURPOSEFULLY mislead.

As far as whether or not there is a similarity between W&S' graphic example of a tree-lined fairway and those of Tilly's; by the way I am assuming you are referring to the one he used in his 1932 article in Golf Illustrated titled "Trees on the Golf Course?"

Tom, ANY ILLUSTRATION drawn by an architect showing an irregular tree-lined fairway will look similar to others. There simply isn't that many things to draw into a simple ILLUSTRATION that would make it appear otherwise. You seem top imply that not only was Tilly influenced to a major extent by W&S but that he may have actually plagiarized their work!

Tom, you betray how very little you know about Tilly, his attitudes and design philosophies and how they grew and developed. Tilly wrote about proper using of trees in defining fairways many times throughout his career going back to his early years.

You asked, "What is up with you. Why do you always repeat your question and my answer. We know what you asked and what I answered. I think most people can follow a thread and you are wasting valuable cyber space."

This is ludicrous! For someone so concerned about "wasting valuable cyber space" and the repeating of things, go up and look at your response in post #28 and explain why you pasted in an entire post rather than simply either commenting or asking questions. I'm sorry if you don't like the way I reference things in my comments, but no one can accuse me of intentionally altering, leaving out or misrepresenting what was said by doing so!

You continued, "The concept of bunker removal is the only recurring theme in those articles and it is mentioned more than twice."

Tom, this is simply stupid as in YOUR OWN SUMMARY of these 21 articles you can only reference ONE time where what was written was of any substance. I out of 21 articles and yet you insist that "The concept of bunker removal is the only recurring theme in those articles..." Go back and look at my comments on your summary. Note how time after time I state "No mention of DH's" yet you insist they are there. Unfortunately, as the articles, including those you missed by the way, are there for all to read on the Tillinghast Association website.

You continued, "It is also recurring theme in the PGA press releases on the project and the only Tilly interview on the project that I'm aware of." So, because YOU ARE UNAWARE of things they must not exist! Unlike you, I have DOZENS of articles containing DIFFERENT interviews with Tilly during the PGA Tour. I guess because you are unaware of them they must not exist. Some of them contain references to DH's but the majority DO NOT!

You are certainly unaware of when they began to be mentioned in press releases and interviews and, FAR more importantly, WHY. As we go through his tour it will be explained.

You continued, "Do you think one of the reasons bunker removal was emphasized above his other possible suggestions..."

Again, you draw a conclusion that the evidence doesn't support and do so simply because YOU HAVEN'T READ and are NOT FAMILIAR with all of the documents and writings involved.

You do present a point that is correct. Yes, they could "quantify the cost savings" in a manner that was most impressive to the general public and club members. My questions to you are When did they FIRST do this and WHY?

You closed by commenting that, "If you don't think Tilly's theories during his PGA tour are a departure from his previous ideas (and in particular what he was arguing for and against Taylor) I worry about volume II." Well I guess I have to call my publisher and tell him to print one less book!

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2009, 02:12:31 PM »
Tom Paul,

Tilly did not make a sudden departure or change in his design philosophies during his PGA tour. His philosophies did evolve and in a very few areas change dramatically (e.g. - proper use of mounding) but the recommendations he gave to clubs throughout the tour were based on beliefs that he had held for many years.

Tom Macwood,

Bob never mentioned Bethpage Black...


Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2009, 04:28:22 PM »
Gentlemen,

This thread is starting to turn contentious and argumentative. As I bear as much of the blame in this as anyone, I have decided to do the following:

1- I will no longer argue or discuss the issue of whether or not the chief goal of the PGA Tour was to remiove DH's. Those with differing opinions from mine are welcome to them. Arguing over it is not good for any of us.
2- I will try to direct the thread back to my original goal of discussing what Tilly did on a daily basis to help all appreciate the monumental accomplishment of this journey. This means that I will post the daily events and if anyone has specific questions regarding those visits and recommendations I will gladly answer as best I can.
3- I will continue to answer all questions and comments sent privately, especially those seeking more information involving Tilly's visits to their own clubs.

My apologies for anything said that might have offended anyone...

This thread should be a celebratory remembrance regardless of how anyone feels about its goals and overall value. Today it wouldn't even be conceived; that it was and even more so accomplished during the times and events happening around it speaks volumes to all those involved...

TEPaul

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2009, 04:29:15 PM »
Phil:

As far as what kind of departure (complete, sudden or whatever) from whatever his early principles were, I was asking Tom MacWood what he meant by that.

It also sort of concerns me when I read this from Tom MacWood:

"TEP
At least you are acknowledging his later principals were a complete departure..."


I just don't remember saying anything like that and probably because I've never really thought it but nevertheless that's what MacWood says I said and the next thing I know he will be quoting what he said I said as some quote from me rather than from him. As I'm sure you know by now it is very very hard to have a conversation or discussion with someone who carries on this way as he has on here for quite a few years.

TEPaul

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2009, 04:34:53 PM »
Phil:

I don't want to see this thread turn argumentative and contentious either but in post #38 I did ask Tom MacWood these questions and I see no reason not to expect him and encourage him to answer them:




"Tom:

A complete departure from earlier principles? Perhaps you should specifically define what-all you think that means and involves since those kinds of blanket statements of yours don't generally cut it around here.  

What about face are you speaking of? Bunkering?

What ideas did he later adopt he had argued against earlier?  



On the other hand, I'm sure I can understand your reasons for now wanting to follow those three points you listed above. Apparently you're feeling the frustration trying to have a discussion on here about something you really care about with someone who is hard to carry on a discussion with. Perhaps now you can better understand my frustrations trying to carry on a discussion with the same person (or two) about a couple of things I really care about----eg the accurate architectural history of Merion East and Myopia!  ;)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 04:43:54 PM by TEPaul »

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2009, 05:00:23 PM »
Thanks for doing this Phillip.  I hope this will not turn into another Merion and I appreciate your efforts to push it forward. 

Two questions occur to me:

1.  It is amazing to me that architects during this era would spend so little time making recommendations but still would pump out quality work.  Not only Tillie on this tour (which was a unique undertaking) but also other examples such as Ross spending relatively little time at each course, all of the changes brought about by Mackenzie's work in Australia, and Braid's work.  Why were those guys able to do amazing work in a day when the most admired modern architects max out at a few courses per year?

2.  I would love to see the goals of Tillie's tour (reduced cost and increased quality in order to allow courses to survive and promote the profession) pursued today.  If such an effort took place, what would be done?

It might be better to address these issues further along in this thread but I would be interested to hear your thoughts on these issues at some point.

David Amarnek

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2009, 05:12:23 PM »
Philip,
I don't mind waiting to get to Westwood if I had to, as I plan on following this topic all the way through; however your offer to send the info by email is most welcome!  I checked the website mentioned and saw that Tilly was in St. Louis in April 1937.
Looking back on your posts, I saw that you would like proof of membership prior to sending the information.
Would the GHIN handicap look up (Amarnek in Missouri) suffice?
In case you didn't get my IM, I don't mind posting my email address:
damarnek@gmail.com

Thanks again!

David

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2009, 05:26:45 PM »
Gentlemen,

This thread is starting to turn contentious and argumentative. As I bear as much of the blame in this as anyone, I have decided to do the following:

1- I will no longer argue or discuss the issue of whether or not the chief goal of the PGA Tour was to remiove DH's. Those with differing opinions from mine are welcome to them. Arguing over it is not good for any of us.
2- I will try to direct the thread back to my original goal of discussing what Tilly did on a daily basis to help all appreciate the monumental accomplishment of this journey. This means that I will post the daily events and if anyone has specific questions regarding those visits and recommendations I will gladly answer as best I can.
3- I will continue to answer all questions and comments sent privately, especially those seeking more information involving Tilly's visits to their own clubs.

My apologies for anything said that might have offended anyone...

This thread should be a celebratory remembrance regardless of how anyone feels about its goals and overall value. Today it wouldn't even be conceived; that it was and even more so accomplished during the times and events happening around it speaks volumes to all those involved...

Phil
Discussing the details of Tilly's architecture, and how it relates, compares and was influenced by his contemporaries, is obviously a soar subject with you or at least not comfortable subject. So as not to distract from the main purpose of this thread I will start a new thread about Tilly's architectural transformation.

TEPaul

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2009, 05:31:29 PM »
"So as not to distract from the main purpose of this thread I will start a new thread about Tilly's architectural transformation."


Smart idea, Tom. Since the subject is bound to be quite similar perhaps you could also pull up that thread you started a few years ago about Tilly's PGA Tour that I think was entitled; "Did Tilly sell out his principles?"

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2009, 06:41:34 PM »
"So as not to distract from the main purpose of this thread I will start a new thread about Tilly's architectural transformation."

Thank you Tom... 

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast's PGA Course Consultation Tour... Come for the ride...
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2009, 06:54:20 PM »
I would love to know the amount of the work that Tillinghast recommended that was not performed / completed.  I know for a fact that the Edison Club did not reroute / redo a third of their Dev Emmet course.  Additionally, I find it astonishing that any pragmatic person would recommend the complete rerouting of 9 of 27 holes to save money???

Chris

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back