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Steve Salmen

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Re: Best Chicago Area Modern Course
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2009, 01:09:23 PM »
Black Sheep without question.  A member friend at Butler gave me an open invitation to play whenever I want.  I have never taken him up on it.  It is a great test of golf, no question, but can anyone honestly say Butler is fun to play? 

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Chicago Area Modern Course
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2009, 01:44:43 PM »
Phil, it just seems to me that Shepard's Crook's "quality" is in large part a function of the price.  If they charged the same price that Thunderhawk (another northern Lake County course) charges, I wouldn't go out of my way to play either place.  When it plays hard and fast, something their super claims is important to him -- and in fairness it often does -- SC is an extraordinarily fun course to play.  I just don't think it even approaches a place like Black Sheep, Butler, or Dubs (which I would put in the upper class of modern courses in Chicago).  SC has its place in the second tier of courses for me, along with Pine Meadows (weak front nine drops its rating) and the Orchard Valleys of the District.

Adam, there's no question that lower rough last Friday made Dubsdread a much easier place to play for a chop like me.  In April, with the rough thick and lush, a missed fairway meant no more than 9 iron or wedge, and even our pro had trouble trying to hit the green with a mid-iron.  Last Friday in the rain for 9 holes, hitting it in the rough but inside the tree line still allowed you to advance the ball toward the green.  Plus, the absence of brutal, club turning rough around the bunkers made getting it up and down far more possible.  On the back nine, I hit 6 fairways and shot 40 with a horrific double on 10.  While I'm certainly playing better now than then, the lack of rough definitely makes the course easier.

Your thoughts on low mow are interesting, but is that really the maintenance profile of an American parkland course?  It would be an interesting experiment to see how it worked.  Maybe a place like Olympia or Medinah could do that on one of their courses to see how differently the course played?  I would think the South at OF could be a handful with all of those mounds and bunkers and short grass. . .

As for whether or not Butler is "fun" to play, I have only been there a handful of times, but enjoyed it very much each time.  While it is very, very (very, very) difficult, isn't that part of the appeal of golf?  Struggling mightily against the forces of evil, the dastardly conglomerate of the gca and Mother Nature?  Perhaps if I was out there every day for an extended period the difficulty could change my perspective, but given the choice of a 30 minute drive to Oak Brook or 90 to Sugar Grove, all things being equal I'd take the shorter drive six times out of ten.

Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Chicago Area Modern Course
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2009, 02:04:44 PM »
Black Sheep.  Only question I had is whether it can be kept firm enough given the soil, but apparently so.

If "resistance to scoring" or "holding up to the best in the game" is the key to a great course, then Butler is far, far superior to Cypress Point.  If memorable design and use of the terrain to make unique holes is, then possibly not.   :D
That was one hellacious beaver.

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Chicago Area Modern Course
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2009, 02:13:10 PM »
Cog Hill  2005 or earlier
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

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