[Kevin Pallier]

I am in the midst of planning a trip to the USA in the fall for my 40th birthday. I have read all about America’s “Golden Age” architects and am keen to see their works plus some from modern “disciples” compared to those that I’ve seen elsewhere.

Being based in Australia - the extent of my great "Golden Age" architecture experience is limited to the great works of the likes of Russell, Apperley, Soutar and of course Mackenzie on his visit "down under". I also lived in England for a number of years and viewed in depth the great “links” and heathland courses of the likes of Colt, Morris, Fowler, Braid etc throughout GB&I

However, the “final frontier” for me personally is to come to the US and try and see first hand, the “Classic” works of people like Ross, Tillnghast, Macdonald, Raynor, Wilson + Flynn & Toomey. I am also particularly interested in seeing “Modern” designs from Coore & Crenshaw + Doak etc

With so much to see in such a short space of time (around 3 weeks) I would like to try and garner some thoughts on which specific architectural works I should try and see ?

I’m basically trying to work off 3 regions:

- North East (NY / NJ / PA)
- Central (Colorado / Nebraska)
- West (San Francisco)
 
Is there a region or architect I am missing ? (I’m also possibly trying to get up to Bandon)

I would also like to try and meet a few GCAers along the way – please PM me should you like to meet up (I will be travelling solo). Some I already have touched base with and am looking forward to meeting up with you and discussing all things golf and educating you on why cricket is better than baseball  

[JWinick]

The problem with Colorado and Nebraska is that's an awful lot of driving (I'm assuming you will hit Ballyneal and Sand Hills).   If you want to hit the mid-west, you could hit the Chicago-area and be a lot more effective.   Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota have great golf courses too....

[Jason McNamara]

Well, clearly you'll need to add another week to the trip.

Back to reality, I'll throw out a couple things to consider.  Both hang on your definition of "fall," above.  (And by the way, is that your fall or ours?)

1.  Toronto.

2.  Mountains.  I mention this because mountain (or mountainside) golf is probably something you do not have in Australia.  The timing may not work for you, but just to put it out there.

[Matt Day]

Kev
don't worry about courses of any description, make sure your in Vegas to celebrate your birthday 

[Mark_F]

I’m basically trying to work off 3 regions:

- North East (NY / NJ / PA)
- Central (Colorado / Nebraska)
- West (San Francisco)

Forget about trying to see so much.  Stick to the North-East.  Anyone in that area around the time you will be there has to see Fall in New England - unless you already have?  Maine isn't as spectacular as the other states, but the coastal towns are wonderful. 
 

... and educating you on why cricket is better than baseball  

And they can educate you on why it is not. 

[Kevin Pallier]

JWinick

I am aware that the Central area will involve a fair bit of driving but I am accustomed to same. I will research the NW but I think that region may be an either / or with the NE as I am starting my trip in NY ?

Jason

I think I may have to save Canada's east coast for my 50th  

Which "mountain" courses would you suggest ? I've seen Banff and Whistler in Canada's West ? I've seen but a few courses in North America and Canada on a bus trip I did in 2000 where I met my (now) wife.

"Fall" being early to late Oct09 ?

Matt

Where do you recommend in Las Vegas ?  

[Kevin Pallier]

Forget about trying to see so much.  Stick to the North-East.  Anyone in that area around the time you will be there has to see Fall in New England - unless you already have?  Maine isn't as spectacular as the other states, but the coastal towns are wonderful. 

Mark

Where do you suggest in the NE ?

... and educating you on why cricket is better than baseball  

And they can educate you on why it is not. 

I'm sure they can try - and I look forward to it

[Matt Day]

KP
the Palms casino had some attractions, four different clubs in two towers ended in a good night. The duelling pianos at the Paris Hotel was a good value.

To be honest mate anywhere in Vegas is good fun for a few days and could tie in with your golfing education.

[Steve Kline]

Just beware that in October in the Northeast or Midwest you can get either really good weather or really horrible weather. Mid to late September would be better. In high school we played our state golf tournament in mid October in Columbus, OH. The first year I played the temperature was barely above freezing and very windy for the two days. The last year I played it was in the mid 60s and perfectly sunny.

I agree with others I would stick to an area. It sounds like you already know this but most people just don't realize how big the U.S. is.

[Jason McNamara]

Jason

I think I may have to save Canada's east coast for my 50th  

Which "mountain" courses would you suggest ? I've seen Banff and Whistler in Canada's West ? I've seen but a few courses in North America and Canada on a bus trip I did in 2000 where I met my (now) wife.

"Fall" being early to late Oct09 ?

Kevin, didn't realize you'd been here before.  I thought this might be a kind of one-time shot, but if you've at least given the Canadian Rockies a brief visit, then never mind on this trip.  Besides, in October you'd have very iffy weather, except maybe (maybe) for Albuquerque.

[Tony_Chapman]

Kevin -- Do you have access issues to courses? If you are doing an October 2009 trip, I don't think you can even play Sand Hills at that time of year. I've wonder if flying into OKC and playing Southern Hills, Karsten Creek, Prairie Dunes, Wild Horse and Ballyneal before flying from Denver to the West Coast would be an option for you?

[Kevin Pallier]

Jason
Which "mountain" courses would you suggest ? I've seen Banff and Whistler in Canada's West ? I've seen but a few courses in North America and Canada on a bus trip I did in 2000 where I met my (now) wife.

Kevin, didn't realize you'd been here before.  I thought this might be a kind of one-time shot, but if you've at least given the Canadian Rockies a brief visit, then never mind on this trip.  Besides, in October you'd have very iffy weather, except maybe (maybe) for Albuquerque.

Jason

I've been to the US twice before but not for golf. I did an organised bus tour about 10 years ago on the West coast encompassing places like the Grand Canyon (an awesome place) / Las Vegas and up to Yosemite. I then followed it up with one to Canada encompassing Vancouver and Banff. I did a quick trip also to Florida when I was living in England - again not for golf. This trip is purely golf related as I will not get this opportunity again. With two young kids leave passes like this are certainly hard to come by 

[Kevin Pallier]

Steve

Unfortunately with my work comitments I couldn't come any earlier - Oct is still a push but it will be worth it whatever weather I'm given. I've played throughout GB&I and if the weather I get in Oct is any worse than some that I've experienced "over there" on the West Coast of Scotland and Ireland in the middle of a UK winter hopefully I will be able to cope.

Tony

Thanks for the advice re: a central trip - that's a good proposition. I'm still playing with all the logistics of my trip as I only have my arrival / leaving flights booked at the moment

I've found "access" is always an issue when trying to visit a course in another state in Australia - let alone another country. I'm finding it hard in the USA moreso than I did in GB&I - but - I respect that's the way things are. Through some very generous GCA hospitality I'm finding some things OK but it is certainly hard work.

Many thanks for those who have sent me PM's re: my trip I will come back to you.

[Carl Nichols]

Kevin:
It doesn't look like you're going to make it to Washington, DC, but if you do get down here and want to play the Art Hills restoration that apparently kicked off the DC-area lovefest for Hills restorations, let me know.    

[Kevin Pallier]

Carl

Sadly I dont think I'll have the time to get down to DC or North Carolina. Thanks for the CC? "heads up" though.

[Kalen Braley]

Kevin,

I would agree that Mountain courses can be hit or miss in Mid to Late October.

Anything on the Cali Coast should be fine as well as Bandon.  I live in Utah, but if you have access, I would think Colorado would be a much better spot for the top end stuff, even though there are good public access courseshere.

P.S.  As for Vegas, ditch it mate.  There are plenty of fun bars in every major city, but I suspect thats not what you're looking for anyways. If i was putting something together I would shoot for:

1 week total split between Cali and Bandon
1/2 week in Colorado  & Nebraska

The rest of the time on the east coast in Chicago, NY area, etc.

[Scott Stearns]

northeast-

fly to NY.  play Bethpage/ piping rock/creek/national, then play baltusrol, plainfield, and drive to Atlantic City and play Atlantic City CC (doak resto), seaview, indian creek (C and C) and then drive to phila--the most flynn anyhwere--IM Tom Paul/wayne Mo (i dont know them but i'll volunteer them anyway)

write some nice letters to the clubs and you'll get on some of these layouts, esp if you can play during the week. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Kevin,

See my email.

[Kevin Pallier]

Kalen

Could you pleae expand on your thoughts on golf re: the Colorado region ?

Re. Vegas. LV is an "interesting" tourist destination I must say from my travels.

Mike

Many thanks - will be in touch

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen

Could you pleae expand on your thoughts on golf re: the Colorado region ?

Re. Vegas. LV is an "interesting" tourist destination I must say from my travels.

Mike

Many thanks - will be in touch

Kevin,

If you have access there are plenty of courses to keep you busy in both Denver and east of there.

While I'm sure the Denver-ites will provide a more accurate list....
1) On the public side there is Fossil Trace, Riverdale Dunes, Murhpy Creek, CommonGrounds, etc,
2) On the private side Sanctuary, Castle Pines, Colorado Club
And I'm sure I'm forgetting some too as well. Working East from there is Ballyneal and Sand Hills as well as the public course Wild Horse.

Just right there would easily be a weeks worth of courses.  While Utah golf is quite good too, the Denver area beats it out in both the Private and Public side for quality layouts so coming from Australia, its not worth a stop here.

In California, the courses are vast and many between the public and private side....Where would I even start.  You could easily spend a week in Monterey alone much less San Fran area or LA.

As for Bandon, it would take 3 days to see everything.

[Kevin Pallier]

While I'm sure the Denver-ites will provide a more accurate list....
1) On the public side there is Fossil Trace, Riverdale Dunes, Murhpy Creek, CommonGrounds, etc,
2) On the private side Sanctuary, Castle Pines, Colorado Club

Have you seen any of these to comment further ? I may have a "spare" day in that region - Cherry Hills is also around that area is it not ?

[Kalen Braley]

While I'm sure the Denver-ites will provide a more accurate list....
1) On the public side there is Fossil Trace, Riverdale Dunes, Murhpy Creek, CommonGrounds, etc,
2) On the private side Sanctuary, Castle Pines, Colorado Club

Have you seen any of these to comment further ? I may have a "spare" day in that region - Cherry Hills is also around that area is it not ?

I have played Sanctuary, Murphy Creek, and Ballyneal and they are all very good.

Cherry Hills is also in the region with myriads of others...these are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head.   

[Kenny Baer]

northeast-

fly to NY.  play Bethpage/ piping rock/creek/national, then play baltusrol, plainfield, and drive to Atlantic City and play Atlantic City CC (doak resto), seaview, indian creek (C and C) and then drive to phila--the most flynn anyhwere--IM Tom Paul/wayne Mo (i dont know them but i'll volunteer them anyway)

write some nice letters to the clubs and you'll get on some of these layouts, esp if you can play during the week.  

First thing first; I envy you greatly.  That sounds like the trip of a lifetime!!!

If I were you I would start writing letters NOW; I am sure with enough persistence access shouldn't be that much of a problem regardless of what you have heard.

1.  I would start in Long Island.  You could literally spend 3 weeks playing a different course on LI every single day and it would be the greatest golf trip of all time; but all things considered I would play
            Part 1               A. National Golf Links of America (CB)
                                   B. Shinnecock Hills (Flynn)
                                   C. Sebonack (Doak and Nicklaus)
                                   D. Bethpage Black (Tillie)....or Burbeck)
                                            You could do those 4 in 3 days if you have the resources but I would try to get as many plays as possible, in an ideal world I would play 36 a day at SH, National, and Sebonack, then play 18 at BPB; I think it would be impossible to do 36 at BPB.  Then drive a couple of hours to Philly
           Part 2                A. Merion (Wilson)
                                   B. Pine Valley
                                   C. Pick any of the greats; there are almost too many to mention.......Aronomink, Lehigh, Saucon Valley, Philly CC, Lancaster, Gulph Mills, and the list goes on.........

I would then hop on a plane and fly to Columbus, OH and play
                                  A. The Golf Club (Dye)
                                  B.  Murifield Village (Nicklaus)
                                  C. Scioto (Ross)
                                  
Next step would be Monterrey Peninsula; fly out to San Francisco and then....
                                  A. Cypress Point
                                  B. Pebble Beach
                                  C. MPCC
                                  D. Olympic Club
                                  E. San Francisco Golf Club (Tillie)

Drive a couple of hours south to Los Angeles and play
                                  A. LA Country Club
                                  B. Rivera

LA should be a great place to fly back from as I am sure there are many flights back to Australia.

If you were to follow my itinerary and succeed in the above trip then in 3 weeks you would have experienced more than 99.9% of all golfers experience in their lifetime.  Also your wallet would be a little lighter  

In a perfect world I would tell you to fly to Atlanta after Philly and I would take you to play Peachtree and then we would make the drive to Augusta to play Augusta National; but unfortunately I can't even make that happen for myself or for my family; I can't picture ANGC being receptive to a letter, it would be one of the few places I mentioned that access is going to be close to impossible but I wish you the best of luck. If you do find a way on then shoot me a PM and I have a place for you to stay.

...By the way thanks for this post; it was fun for me to imagine a trip like this.

[ed_getka]

Kevin,
   A lot of good feedback. I know you have sent out many letters to clubs, so hopefully they will start to respond. That late in the season hopefully you can get out on a weekday when the club is quiet. Also keep in mind that many private clubs in the US have a day that the course is closed and that would provide you an excellent opportunity to walk the course if all else fails. Sometimes the best way to arrange that is via the superintendent. I look forward to seeing you again and catching up.

[ed_getka]

Kevin,
   I think Myopia has a fundraiser around the time of year you are planning so I would most definitely check into that.

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