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Bill_McBride

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Jeff, I couldn't help thinking what a lucky guy you were to have a dad like yours.

Most dads:  "You want to be a what?"

Your dad:  "Oh yeah, here's a bunch of stuff from that ASGCA bunch.  Here's to a great career."

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bill,

I still recall him ( a life long Campbell Soup exec) also mentioning as I announced going to landscape architecture school at U of Illinois that I should follow a career "where I would use my brain....." so he had his doubts, too!

Of course, to him and Mom, it was me studying to be a landscaper.....I still tell any kid interested in golf design that the first test is to not get talked out of it by those nearest him......
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great read Jeff. Thanks. Your dad's comment above sounds a bit like my dad when I said I was going to be a journalist: "Well don't go thinking I'll be paying for some f**king bullshit arts degree!". ;D

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Scott,

I took my daughter to NYC this summer to see an open house for the American Univ. in Paris, which she has some interest in attending.  Natch, its a top 10 most expensive school in the world......but I tried to keep an open mind.

On the flight there, she mentions that she thinks she wants to change her proposed major from languages (not great job prospects anyway) to "film study." Yeah, $85K a year for film study was not my idea of a good investment, so the tide has turned.  At least I can look back and say that I provided for my family for 25 years in using my college degree.

Only slightly OT, but I further dissapointed Dad in turning down an invite to Harvard after my Bachelors in LA to go into golf courses.  I had won the ASLA senior award of merit, which got an automatic invite.  He couldn't quite see the golf thing and he really couldn't see turning down a scholarship to the most prestigious university around.......JUST to design golf courses!

Playing golf with Lou Duran and Craig Edmand last week, I commented on Dad's reluctance as a WWII vet (flew off the Lexington) and lifer at a major corporation for me to start a small business.  But, as it turned out, about the time I started (1984) many, many corporations began loosening that "lifetime bond" that they once had with their employees during the great years of the 1950-1970 era when the US controlled about 80% of the worlds industrial capacity.  The job exodus had begun and as it turned out, my little job was much more stable than if I had become some kind of desk jockey at a big corp.  At least, that is how I have it rationalized......

He also said, "They will always need food in the next big depression, but they won't need golf."  I may find that to be true here in the next few years, but even if I do, I had a hell of a run. ;)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 06:30:55 PM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jeff,

Tell us some architects or courses you really admire and why???  The more obscure the better....

Who was the best client you ever worked for???
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for a new daily series: Spend a day with...
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2009, 11:35:43 PM »


Hopefully Stamm will invite me to the nasty little soirée he's planning.....Chips, dips, chains and discussion of bunker evolution always go well together.

You're on the "Always Invited" list. The question is whether you can talk momma into taking the genital cuffs off on a Sat or Sun. ;)
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jeff:

What do you enjoy away from golf?

If you weren't an architect (golf or otherwise), what would you do for a living?

How often do you play golf?  Do you play a draw or a fade?

What is the best hole you have ever designed?  Why?

What is the most creative solution for a problem you've encountered in your design projects?

How did you get started posting on GCA?

What is the single book on golf course architecture you would recommend, if asked?

Ginger or MaryAnn?

Bart


Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tell us some architects or courses you really admire and why???  The more obscure the better....
Golden Age, it’s the Good Doctor. Modern, I Strantz and Smyers, probably in reverse order listed.  I like the artistry of golf course architecture as much as the strategy.  Steve seems to mix it in the best blend to me, as MS went too far over the top to make great golf, but does show us what can be accomplished thinking outside the box.

Who was the best client you ever worked for???
I have had several.  The best were those who gave me general direction and let me go.  Among them were all my courses in Minnesota, which may explain the results.  I also fondly recall several clients with whom I developed a great “synergy” rather than just work together.  Usually, the good clients have that as well.
What do you enjoy away from golf?
Model railroading and Dallas Stars hockey.

If you weren't an architect (golf or otherwise), what would you do for a living?
I would be designing something, perhaps being an urban planner.  I have a strong design personality according to those nosy tests.

How often do you play golf?  Do you play a draw or a fade?
It varies.  This year I played 7 times at my ASGCA meeting, 3 times on my trip to MN for GolfWeek, and about ten times here at home.  I generally fade the ball, and as I age, I tend to fade at about the 14th hole in more general terms. 

What is the best hole you have ever designed?  Why?
I like the short par 4 holes at the Quarry all about equally well.  I especially like the sixth and ninth because they are so different than what I normally do. I used the scarred land that was there and made it into something.

What is the most creative solution for a problem you've encountered in your design projects?
I have described this here before, but the drainage at Wild Wing Plantation is probably tops.  Willard Byrd had done the first two courses, and had invested about 400,000 CY of fill to raise fairways for drainage.  I opted to use a system of linear lakes, connection pipes, and drain basins to build the Avocet course closer to grade.  Thus, for my 475,000 CY earthmoving budget, I was able to get the client more “fru fru” which was his major design objective to distinguish his third course from his first two.
Did you have any doubt that my answer would contain the words “catch basin?”

How did you get started posting on GCA?
Ron Whitten told me about it in 2000.  He had just done his interview where he used profanity and got called on the carpet at Golf Digest for it.  I checked in to defend him, I think.  The rest is history.  I think I quickly posted some kind of design challenge, which one poster answered something like “Oh no, you aren’t getting me to commit to putting my ideas out there!”  That sort of told me what I was dealing with. I see many of the professional golf course architects who start posting sort of start with the same idea I did – sort of let people know what you know.  They and I soon find out that posting here is like giving a presentation at a country club – In general, everyone in the house is pretty convinced they know more than the golf course architect.

What is the single book on golf course architecture you would recommend, if asked?
I have read them all, many two or three times.  My personal favorite is still George Thomas’ book, “Golf Architecture in America.”  I say that because he offered some real specifics that I still use.  One I have commented on is the use of a fairway chipping are behind the green on long par 4 holes, because a near miss over on a long iron approach should get a better result than a shot that comes up short.  He also advocated shaping greens to assist shots.  In particular, he (and I) favor narrower greens on downwind holes (wind straightens shots) and wider ones into the wind, where any curved shot is magnified.
That sort of codified some of the thought processes that various tour pros were trying to express – there are some physics going on with the golf shot that are difficult to overcome.  Sizing and shaping features to accommodate makes the game a lot more enjoyable, compared to a design where the greens size, fairway width, whatever, is designed without any regard to the shots to be played.  That is a big part of my designs because for all Killian and Nugent’s golf course architecture skill, they were sort of typical of that period of golf course architecture in not really considering how the top players played the game.

Ginger or MaryAnn?
Not a Gilligan’s fan. I’ll go with Mary Tyler Moore in Capri pants!  Oh, Rob!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for a new daily series: Spend a day with...
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2009, 01:33:13 PM »


Hopefully Stamm will invite me to the nasty little soirée he's planning.....Chips, dips, chains and discussion of bunker evolution always go well together.

 The question is whether you can talk momma into taking the genital cuffs off on a Sat or Sun. ;)

What a great line.  I'll have to remember that one!
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Jason Connor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for a new daily series: Spend a day with...
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2009, 05:19:48 PM »
What about this? There are GCA folks living everywhere. Why don't we get people to meet each other to play a round at a local course and post a photo essay like we did with the Grudge match?

That way we get to meet the folks involved, get to know a course, and get mroe people to meet face to face.

Great idea. (so was the OP's).

Somewhere I've seen this web page application that is a map and you can put a pin with your name on it where you live.  Does anyone know / remember that?  It'd be a way to see what other GCAers are near me, then you could PM people to setup a game.



We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
I know its supposed to be a one day thing, but I figured I would post  a summary of today, since its the kind of site visit most of you probably think of when dreaming of being a gca.

I seem to be chronically behind in work. I spent Saturday getting my daughter ready for college, so I spent Sunday getting out a report for a client, then had a dinner party.  As a result, I took the 10PM flight to KC, arriving around midnight.  I had a beer on the plane to make sure I was sleepy. I got up and decided to take the "backroads" short cut from KCI to Mayetta.  Using the turnpike might be faster, but its 40 miles longer.  Of course, I got on the phone and missed the turn,heading north to Athcison, so it wasn't much of a shortcut, but I did see some trains and grain elevators, and I like seeing old towns anyway, so it was a half an hour not wasted.

I got on site, and no one was in the trailer, but I found the lead shaper just down the 12th fw so I went to talk to him.  He had spent the last week pushing topsoil in preparation for grassing which actually began today, so there weren't really any greens to look at shaping wise.  He had cleared the weeds on the 14th fw so I could take a look.

In essesnce there are a few questions on 14 - there is a small hill between tee and LZ and there is a wetlands at about 310 from the championship tee as I have layed it out.  The problem is, I think into the wind its fine, because only a few players will even have to lay up.  But Notah has it in his head that you should definitely hit driver and wants the tee moved up so there is an option to clear the creek, which we can't touch, and which is blind because of the hiill.  I am not a big fan of the forced carry option and we have an option carry fw on 18 anyway.  We will let him look at that tomorrow.

The other idea NBIII had was a Biaritz green on 13.  I actually drew a different plan, mostly because we have a strict limit on green quantities and I wasn't sure I wanted to invest 9000 or so SF in one green.  And, as it happens, when they pushed the fill up for that green, they just happened to do it in a very natural way.  It seems a shame to box it off for a rectangular biartiz/  I called Notah about it but he never returned that call, so we will see tomorrow.

I think I am flunking minimalism 101 here.  The general plan was to follow natural grades in most fw, with 11, 3, and 4 needing some big cuts.  However, the shapers kept suggesting enhancments and I allowed them.  I really do think they are better.  For example, on 12, where I went out to first, they had rouged in a fw bunker.  Its a DL left with scattered trees and we put a target bunker out on the outside of the DL to turn it visually, since we had trees left.  The rough push came out wider than fit my eye, so I had them shorten the bunker but keep the fill, envisioning the fw line running up the gentle rise and being more visible.  If a hole dog legs left, 99% of the time, is just better to raise the right edge of the fw to make it look right.

I think the big wigs at LUI (the contractor) have made some noise about the extra shaping not really in the budget, but as I told them, your guys are offering, and I am taking!  If the prom queen offers me sex, I'm taking it!  (or would when I was back in HS)

After looking at the bit of shaping that was done, I marked grass lines on holes 2-5 and marked bunker edges on a few holes.  I like to do every one of those, although the bunker crew has redone some of them at Sand Hills and I think I can give them some freedome.  Right now, they aren't coming out quite as chunky as the SH bunkers, but they look fine.

I used the truck to mark grass lines, with the project foreman running the spray can from the other side.  I find that walking and spraying leads to too sharp a curve.  Driving at 10-15 MPH allows the curves to fit the landscape, and we know mowers can negotiate later.  As with bunkers, I mark, go back and look from the tees or LZ and then mark again.  I usually end up using three colors with orange being the final color for them to follow.

Sand is going in bunkers and the first sod was laid around 4 green. That green is on a long par 5, where there is an option to drive over a 25 ft deep bunker to shorten the hole a bit, a la No. 4 at Royal St George.  On the second, there are two fw, separated by a pair of bunkers.  The upper fw rolls dowhill on to the green, which is loosely modeled after 11 at LACC.

I wiill answer emails here in a minute, shower and go to dinner with the boys and NBIII (if he gets here early enough)  Tomorrow is more for show and some comments for Notah.  More then.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Anthony Gray



  Jeff,

  I enjoyed your post. I'm glad you are busy. But my favorite post of yours concerning your days activities has to be designing a par 5 while urinating in the morning.

  Anthony


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jeff,

How many centerline bunkers will you have?
How many randomly spaced pots?
How many fall away greens?
How many blind tee shots and approaches?
What will the bunkers look like? Will Bogey criticize them for having the ragged natural look, or will he praise them for being bath tubs like at ANGC?
How is the course with regards to green to tee walks?
Did you offer to reduce your fee if they will forgo cart paths and emphasize walking?
How many environmental hurdles did you have to jump?
Will there be an irrigtion pond, and will it be in play?
Will there be a set of tees at 5192 so Matt Ward can be assured that I can play the place without sending balls all over the property?
Will Adam Clayman want to play a GRUDGE MATCH against Anthony Gray there? (Anthony's easy, you need to attract Adam.)
Will Rob Rigg want to give you the double green light on TheWalkingGolfer.com?
Will John Kirk enjoy watching the ball bounce and roll on the contours?
Will there be enough wind to get Patrick Mucci to leave his nurse and play? (As opposed to staying with his nurse and playing.)
Will the Sandman be able to escape your bunkers?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
I got up and decided to take the "backroads" short cut from KCI to Mayetta.  Using the turnpike might be faster, but its 40 miles longer. 

When you head back, if you're on the turnpike, wave at me as you go thorough Topeka. 

I think I am flunking minimalism 101 here.  The general plan was to follow natural grades in most fw, with 11, 3, and 4 needing some big cuts.  However, the shapers kept suggesting enhancments and I allowed them.

I wondered about that.  I saw what was in the local paper here about not moving much dirt, then a month ago or so on the way back from a golf trip to Seneca, my wife and I stopped for a look.

Seemed like there was a lot of dirtwork. It looked like good work, mind you, but more than I expected.


BTW, the color is in honor of your work with JC.... <grin>
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

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