[Dan Moore]

The current issue of Golf Magazine features the Top 50 Modern Courses built worldwide in the last 50 years.  Not a single Chicago area course made the list.  What Chicago area course should have made it, if any?  What is your favorite Modern Chicago area course?

Some of the candidates  Rich Harvest Farm Jerry Rich (soon to host the Solheim Cup), Conway Farms Tom Fazio (hosting the Western Am. this year), Kemper Lakes Dick Nugent (PGA Championship), Cog Hill Dick Wilson/ Rees Jones (Western Open venue), Merit Club Bob Lohman , Black Sheep Dave Esler , The Glen Club Tom Fazio, Butler Nation George and Tom Fazio (Western Open).

[PThomas]

Black Sheep and Butler are the clear winners in that group i think Dan...the only one i can't recall too well is Merit Club which i played once a LONG time ago

[john_stiles]

A qualified post that Black Sheep is the best IMO,  qualified in that I have not played Rich Harvest.
Mr. Esler created wonderful green complexes and surrounds.

Also Kemper Lakes is just a blur of the course and learning how to play liar's poker in club.

Will actually admit I will be watching the Solheim Cup at Rich Harvest.   

Not to get offtrack, but Solheim seems like what I imagine the Ryder Cup in 1950s.

Maybe Mr. Lavin or Jeff Goldman will post

[Dan Moore]

Had I answered my question initially I would have said Black Sheep.  I think esler created a course that uses classic principles yet is uniquely local as well.  A prarie links if you will suited to its wide open prairie, site fitted with width to handle the Windy City winds and as John said some very good green complexes.

[Adam Clayman]

Of those mentioned. does anyone think they could, or should, break into the country's  top 50?
 
I'm sure most of the Chicago contingent think I just love to bash my own homeland. Well, the truth is I really wish I didn't have to. The reason I do... It took me to travel to other parts to realize how the typical Chicago course followed the wrong road. (Don;t feel bad so did most of the nation.) I'd hate to have anyone who hasn't been exposed to anything but the Chicago Metro area courses to think that what they have there is great architecture. Anything that did have potential has likely been disfigured into Salieri-ville.
 
Save for maybe courses like Beverly, Skokie and Shore Acres? edit; And CGC (not that I would know)

[Dan Moore]

Here is the full Golf magazine list.

1. Sand Hills
Mullen, Neb.

2. Pacific Dunes
Bandon, Ore.

3. Whistling Straits (Straits)
Haven, Wis.

4. Cape Kidnappers
Hawke's Bay, New Zealand

5. Barnbougle Dunes
Bridport, Australia

6. Friar's Head
Baiting Hollow, N.Y.

7. Muirfield Village
Dublin, Ohio

8. Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog)
La Romana, Dominican Republic

9. TPC Sawgrass (Players Stadium)
Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.

10. The Ocean Course at Kiawah Island
Kiawah Island, S.C.

11. Kingsbarns
St. Andrews, Scotland

12. Bandon Dunes
Bandon, Ore.

13. Loch Lomond
Luss, Scotland

14. The Golf Club
New Albany, Ohio

15. Valderrama
Sotogrande, Spain

16. The European Club
Brittas Bay, Ireland

17. Harbour Town
Hilton Head Island, S.C.

18. Kauri Cliffs
Kerikeri, New Zealand

19. Cabo del Sol (Ocean)
Los Cabos, Mexico

20. Nine Bridges
Jeju Island, South Korea

21. Shadow Creek
North Las Vegas, Nev.

22. Sebonack
Southampton, N.Y.

23. Spyglass Hill
Pebble Beach, Calif.

24. Ballyneal
Holyoke, Colo.

25. Old Sandwich
Plymouth, Mass.

26. The Honors Course
Ooltewah, Tenn.

27. Chambers Bay
University Place, Wash.

28. Calusa Pines
Naples, Fla.

29. Wade Hampton
Cashiers, N.C.

30. Waterville
Waterville, Ireland

31. Pete Dye Golf Club
Bridgeport, W.V.

32. Nanea
Kailua-Kona, Hawaii

33. Bandon Trails
Bandon, Ore.

34. Ocean Forest
Sea Island, Ga.

35. Desert Forest
Carefree, Ariz.

36. Double Eagle
Galena, Ohio

37. World Woods (Pine Barrens)
Brooksville, Fla.

38. Black Diamond Ranch (Quarry)
Lecanto, Fla.

39. Blackwolf Run (River)
Kohler, Wis.

40. Castle Pines
Castle Rock, Colo.

41. Hazeltine National
Chaska, Minn.

42. Jupiter Hills (Hills)
Tequesta, Fla.

43. National Golf Club
Woodbridge, Ontario, Canada

44. Ellerston
Hunter Valley, Australia

45. Trump National (Old)
Bedminster, N.J.

46. Long Cove
Hilton Head Island, S.C.

47. Oitavos Dunes
Cascais, Portugal

48. Mayacama
Santa Rosa, Calif.

49. Spring City (Lake)
Kunming, China

50. The Club at Black Rock
Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

[J_ Crisham]

Butler National is tops for my money in the Chicago area as Moderns are concerned. I think I have played those mentioned so my thought is that for sheer challenge, shot value , course conditioning, Butler is at the top of the class. You had better bring your A game here. Black Sheep is nice but almost unplayable in a wind beyond 20mph such as what we had today. Given the severity of some of the green complexes balls could blow off greens if they are running fast. I like the spartan clubhouse and endearing group of guys at Black Sheep as well. As far as the Classics; Shoreacres, CGC, Skokie, OFCC, and, Beverly are as good as it gets in Chicago.      Jack

[cary lichtenstein]

Cog Hill

[Jim Tang]

I'll go w/ Black Sheep, although I probably should disqualify myself from this question since I work there in the summers as a caddy.  The greens are some of the best in the Chicagoland area since the place gets so little play.  It can be tough in the wind, but I think the course is very playable in all conditions.  The fairways are incredibly wide and most of the greens are open in the front, thus allowing players to punch shots into greens or bounce them in.  The greens are large, and while they have slope, it is gradual rather than severe.  On your approach, Esler almost always gives you an area to bail out, while the opposite side usually has some type of deep bunker or tall fescue.

Butler is very solid as well and perhaps has fallen off the national radar since losing the Western Open.

Being local, I do find it strange that almost nothing new has been built in the Chicagoland area in the past 10 years.  Everywhere you look, great golf courses are being built out west, in the east, the plain states, but not Chicago.

[tlavin]

I still haven't played Black Sheep (another hole on the local resume), but Butler strikes me as the only Chicago course that could challenge for that list.  There's some stout competition, to be sure, but I think it belongs on the list.  I really like Conway Farms, but it's not nearly as good as Butler.

[PThomas]

or, as Hawk Harrelson stated in yesterdays Tribune, its Bolingbrook Golf club!

[tlavin]

or, as Hawk Harrelson stated in yesterdays Tribune, its Bolingbrook Golf club!

Yet another example of how Harrelson is past his expiration date!

[PThomas]

or, as Hawk Harrelson stated in yesterdays Tribune, its Bolingbrook Golf club!

Yet another example of how Harrelson is past his expiration date!

i almost spit up my coffee when i read that...i mean, come on, Bolingbrook Golf, the best course in CHicagoland?  and this from a guy who i assume can get on every/almost every good course around here??? 

i swear, if i ever saw him across the street i would have to walk over and ask him about this

[Phil McDade]

How far can one venture from the intersection of Wabash and Adams and still be considered Chicago area?

If it's a generous definition, does Shepherd's Crook deserve a place in the debate?

[Dan Moore]

Phil,  Shepard's Crook is as close to the Sears, I mean Willis Tower, as Black Sheep so why not.  Is that your vote? 

So far we have 3 1/2 for Black Sheep, 1 1/2 for Butler, 1 for Cog Hill and 1 from left field (or is that right field) for Bollingbrook GC.  Terry Lavin is disqualified until he plays Black Sheep, shame on him. 

Seems to me that Balck Sheep is by far the most adventurous architecturally, a course that truly is defined by its terrain.

For a little inspiration here are some photos of Black Sheep and Cog Hill after the recent renovation. 

Black Sheep











Cog Hill Modified 7th





Modified 8th



New Green on 14

[PCCraig]

Black Sheep is very good but I would have to vote for Butler as well. After Cog Hill the quality slopes off drastically.

[George Freeman]

Dan, your photos aren't working (at least on my computer).

[Phil McDade]

Phil,  Shepard's Crook is as close to the Sears, I mean Willis Tower, as Black Sheep so why not.  Is that your vote? 

Dan:

I have not played it yet, with plans to take it in this fall (w/ pics). The GCA crowd that gathered for a round this past Sunday at Spring Valley raved about it, suggesting it plays as close to fast-and-firm perfection as a course in the Midwest might be able to get. I've heard nothing but good-to-great things about SCrook. Black Sheep looks really interesting -- I like the bold bunkering contrasted with the flattish terrain.

[Mark Smolens]

It would be very hard for a public course with greens fees of less than $40 to be in the class of a place like Black Sheep.  For the $$, Shepard's Crook is a great place, but Black Sheep is a pretty special place.  As is Butler.  As is the renovated Dubsdread (tho, with the rough now cut, is not nearly as hard as it was in April).  I am fearful that the big kids will tear the place up, just as they did in the past, when they come back next month. . . which would be the death knell for the Jemseks' hopes of getting an Open.

[C. Squier]

Another vote for Black Sheep.  Have played mostly everything in the area except Rich Harvest Farm.  The course is extreme fun, generous fairways and tricky green complexes.  It can get windy, but the space Esler gave golfers greatly reduce the severity of penalty a gust of wind can give.  I'm a sucker for things like greens transitioning right into tee boxes and the variability that 3 9's can give a member.  It's probably the one modern course in Chicago that if I lived near it, I'd be asking for a membership packet.  Otherwise, Chicago is a classic course city IMO.  Butler is great, I just couldn't play it every day....too tough.

[Phil McDade]

It would be very hard for a public course with greens fees of less than $40 to be in the class of a place like Black Sheep.  For the $$, Shepard's Crook is a great place, but Black Sheep is a pretty special place.  As is Butler.  As is the renovated Dubsdread (tho, with the rough now cut, is not nearly as hard as it was in April).  I am fearful that the big kids will tear the place up, just as they did in the past, when they come back next month. . . which would be the death knell for the Jemseks' hopes of getting an Open.

Mark:

Is it the public, low-fee nature of the course that exempts it, or simply the course itself? It's one thing to say Black Sheep is a better course than Shepherd's Crook -- a valid debate, it seems from the views of others here I respect. But I've found that the public nature and pricing of courses sometimes -- often, actually -- bears little resemblance to quality. In a few weeks, you'll be able to walk Lawsonia for most of the week for $45 ($30 if you wait until mid-afternoon) -- or less than it costs to walk the difficult-to-walk (and over-rated) University Ridge.

[jonathan_becker]

Dan,

Butler....maybe I'm biased because I used to loop there, but for shot value and challenge, it's hard to top the place.  Also, the conditioning is immaculate.  

Other than Kiawah or Oakmont, I've never seen a place where your score can exponentially start to rise with poor play.

[Jack Vance]

Will be playing these 2 courses next week for 1st time. Any thoughts/ info for a new member to GCA?

Regards, Jack Vance

[SL_Solow]

I am still contemplating my answer.  However the reasons for the choices exemplify the problems with ratings that we all face.  Those favoring Black Sheep emphasize the variety, the naturalness, the greens complexes and the "fun".  The Butler supporters rely on the difficulty or "resistance to scoring" plus conditioning.  In fact, Mark Smolens worries that cutting the rough at Cog Hill may render it too easy for the pros, presumably lessening its quality.  Clearly there must be a balance.  Courses that present too little challenge can become mundane quickly.  But difficulty alone does not make for great golf.  The trick is creating a balance that is satisfying for a great number of golfers.  I am not sure where challenging pros fits in, although a number of very good architects have taken the position that a great golf course must challenge great players' scoring ability.  Clearly, how you come out on these issues determines where you rate particular courses.  I haven't even touched on issues of "fairness" versus "quirk".

[Adam Clayman]

Shel,  What does that say about a design, if cutting the grass makes the course that much easier for the pro?

Mark, If you do believe that, do you also think it makes it easier for everyone? Same case for felling trees?

I suspect if Dubbs Dread were dried out with nothing but low mow, especially around those hideous bunkers, balls would bounce into unpredictable locations. Making recovery the real test. But no, without the standard maintenance presentation the pros would howl to no end. The long rough garbs their ball and keeps it from nether regions, likely farther from the hole, or off line. But not always. Sometimes the bounce is fortuitous. Oh yeah let's not forget about how wind should factor into a great design. Mid-June? Lemont. Better bring a windbreaker,,,not.

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