[Chris Buie]

This certainly has the ingredients to be the match of the year.  Padraig seems like the only guy who has the intestinal fortitude to go the distance with Tiger.  
By the way, I'm curious what you fellows think of the tree that is in front of the green on 18 at Firestone.  Personally, if I hit a fairway on a par-4 I most definitely do not like having a tree blocking my approach.  What do you architecture gurus think?

[Carl Johnson]

Tiger Woods.  Who is this guy?  Sometimes after the first round (or second) he's back, but not out of it.  Others are back, too.  Yet, after a couple of more rounds he's right there.  Why?

[Chris Buie]

My take on that Carl is that there is a difference between being extremely talented and being a champion.  A champion is someone who keeps themselves in the hunt and then when push comes to shove - that is when they really move into the highest levels of what they are capable of.  The opposite of this I'm sorry to say might be Greg Norman.  Tremendous talent but we all know what happened with many of his tournaments.
Crunch time brings out the best in some and not the best in others.  Padraig is one of those guys who seems to be able to rise to the occasion when things get very intense.  That is why I think Sunday could be an especially good match.

[Chuck Brown]

If I had my way at Firestone, there are about 200 trees I'd chop down, but I do think the one on 18 adds interest, at least insofar as any trees can add interest.

The hazard to watch out, especially if you are Tiger Woods, is the roof of the clubhouse and the dumpsters behind the back entrance to the kitchen...

[Richard Hetzel]

Tiger Woods.  Who is this guy?  Sometimes after the first round (or second) he's back, but not out of it.  Others are back, too.  Yet, after a couple of more rounds he's right there.  Why?

Think of Tiger as a snowball that is rolling downhill and gaining speed as he goes! The first day he is a small flake, it just gets bigger after that, especially if the the course fits his eye!

[mike_malone]

 The routing at Firestone is so pedestrian (back and forth) that it was essential to separate the holes with trees.   What's the sense of the bunkers just beyond the tree on the left of #18 ?

[Pat Burke]

My take on that Carl is that there is a difference between being extremely talented and being a champion.  A champion is someone who keeps themselves in the hunt and then when push comes to shove - that is when they really move into the highest levels of what they are capable of.  The opposite of this I'm sorry to say might be Greg Norman.  Tremendous talent but we all know what happened with many of his tournaments.
Crunch time brings out the best in some and not the best in others.  Padraig is one of those guys who seems to be able to rise to the occasion when things get very intense.  That is why I think Sunday could be an especially good match.

I alwyas had my own "take" on Greg and his "failings"   Had the very good fortune to work for a short time with Butch Harmon.  This was in the time of Greg to Tiger dominance  (a little before).  Butch made the comment to me that in all of his experience, including watching his dad work with guys, he had NEVER seen a player work harder on his game than Greg did.  (He later said, that he never thought he'd see it, but Tiger worked harder than Greg!).  So, how's this for a contrarian view, MAYBE, Greg worked hard and got the MOST out of his game to simply put himself in position so often.  Yeah that's right, Greg Norman...overachiever!

[Martin Del Vecchio]

First, I think Harrington's streak of excellent play ends at 3 days, and his form for the previous 50 weeks comes back.

And second, I believe that Norman worked on his game very hard.  It's not his game that fell apart a bit too often; it was his head.  Whatever it is that Tiger has too much of, Norman didn't have enough of.

[Greg Clark]

Nobody would consider this a "match" if Tiger was 3 clear heading into the final round.  Paddy's 3 shot lead is as important as his intestinal fortitude.  Not a knock on Harrington.

[Jim Nugent]

My take on that Carl is that there is a difference between being extremely talented and being a champion.  A champion is someone who keeps themselves in the hunt and then when push comes to shove - that is when they really move into the highest levels of what they are capable of.  The opposite of this I'm sorry to say might be Greg Norman.  Tremendous talent but we all know what happened with many of his tournaments.
Crunch time brings out the best in some and not the best in others.  Padraig is one of those guys who seems to be able to rise to the occasion when things get very intense.  That is why I think Sunday could be an especially good match.

I alwyas had my own "take" on Greg and his "failings"   Had the very good fortune to work for a short time with Butch Harmon.  This was in the time of Greg to Tiger dominance  (a little before).  Butch made the comment to me that in all of his experience, including watching his dad work with guys, he had NEVER seen a player work harder on his game than Greg did.  (He later said, that he never thought he'd see it, but Tiger worked harder than Greg!).  So, how's this for a contrarian view, MAYBE, Greg worked hard and got the MOST out of his game to simply put himself in position so often.  Yeah that's right, Greg Norman...overachiever!

Pat, obviously your take on pro golf is worth listening to.  That said, I feel Greg had the physical gifts to achieve much more.  His mental lapses cost him big event after big event. 

I saw this on TV over and over.  British Open playoff: bomb his drive in the bunker.  Masters (1989?): hit iron off the 72nd tee.  1986 Masters: half-shank his approach on the 72nd.  He even came close to blowing one of the great final rounds ever in a major, when he missed that 18 inch putt on the 71st hole of his 2nd British Open win. 

I also saw it in person at Olympic in the 1993 Tour Championship.  Nice lead with about 5 holes to play.  Lots of green, with the pin tucked in the right. Tries to hit his 9 iron -- where? -- at the pin.  Dumps in the bunker, makes bogey.  Does same basic thing at 16.  Loses tournament that was in his pocket. 

He came to believe he was snake bit, too.  A TV commentator asked him he felt he was "owed" a big event.  He exasperatedly said he was owed a whole lot of big events. 

He also felt bad luck had stolen tournaments from him.  I heard him refer to other golfers as lucky.  Everyone knew Fred Couples was lucky, he said. 

Over-achiever ot under-achiever?  Hard for me to see the former.   

[jeffwarne]

[

He came to believe he was snake bit, too.  A TV commentator asked him he felt he was "owed" a big event.  He exasperatedly said he was owed a whole lot of big events. 

He also felt bad luck had stolen tournaments from him.  I heard him refer to other golfers as lucky.  Everyone knew Fred Couples was lucky, he said. 

Over-achiever ot under-achiever?  Hard for me to see the former.   

[/quote]

Maybe Norman should play more Senior Tour events
54 holes was always his specialty

The players who "stole" events from him would've been distant footnotes if he would've shot even near par on the final 9 holes

[Martin Del Vecchio]

Maybe Norman should play more Senior Tour events
54 holes was always his specialty

Either 54 holes, or (X - 18) holes.

[David Stamm]

Norman certainly had some self inflicted wounds, but I'd hardly call Mize's chip in or Tway's hole out from the bunker as his fault. Think about it. Just those two moments right there, if they hadn't happened, would change our view of him. Suddenly he possibly has two more majors and is a US Open away from a career slam.

[Bill Brightly]

Amazing how fast Tiger ersaed the deficit...

[Jim Nugent]

Norman certainly had some self inflicted wounds, but I'd hardly call Mize's chip in or Tway's hole out from the bunker as his fault. Think about it. Just those two moments right there, if they hadn't happened, would change our view of him. Suddenly he possibly has two more majors and is a US Open away from a career slam.

At the PGA Greg shot 76 the last round, and (I think) 4 over the last 5 holes.  Otherwise Tway's bunker shot would have meant nothing. 

Even if those two shots don't go in, it doesn't necessarily mean Greg wins. 

[jeffwarne]

Norman certainly had some self inflicted wounds, but I'd hardly call Mize's chip in or Tway's hole out from the bunker as his fault. Think about it. Just those two moments right there, if they hadn't happened, would change our view of him. Suddenly he possibly has two more majors and is a US Open away from a career slam.

At the PGA Greg shot 76 the last round, and (I think) 4 over the last 5 holes.  Otherwise Tway's bunker shot would have meant nothing. 

Even if those two shots don't go in, it doesn't necessarily mean Greg wins. 

"Even if those two shots don't go in....."
Exactly, and they may well have saved Norman from simply folding on the next hole

[PCCraig]

Now that was a solid final round! I was pulling for Paddy but Tiger won by KO...

[Adam Clayman]

Trying to put an architectural slant to this...

 The two best players rose to the top of the leaderboard.

Does this say anything about the quality of the golf course?

Many people try to hold up who has won on a course as proof of it's architectural worthiness.

Does that theory hold water at Firestone?

[PThomas]

Does this say anything about the quality of the golf course?

Many people try to hold up who has won on a course as proof of it's architectural worthiness.

Does that theory hold water at Firestone?

Adam, i dont think so..it just so happens that both were playing well this week

[Jim Nugent]

Trying to put an architectural slant to this...

 The two best players rose to the top of the leaderboard.

Does this say anything about the quality of the golf course?

Many people try to hold up who has won on a course as proof of it's architectural worthiness.

Does that theory hold water at Firestone?

Or at Torrey Pines, where Tiger and Phil have had remarkable success? 

Or Riviera, where neither Jack nor Tiger has ever won? 

[Bill_McBride]

I've never been to Firestone but boy does it look boring on TV - except for #16!  Every hole looks like every other hole.  I remember that from the old CBS Golf Classic days but back then you weren't getting the blimp shots and couldn't really see the back and forth nature of the layout.

Is that original Dick Wilson / Joe Lee?

[Carl Johnson]

My take on that Carl is that there is a difference between being extremely talented and being a champion.  A champion is someone who keeps themselves in the hunt and then when push comes to shove - that is when they really move into the highest levels of what they are capable of.  The opposite of this I'm sorry to say might be Greg Norman.  Tremendous talent but we all know what happened with many of his tournaments.
Crunch time brings out the best in some and not the best in others.  Padraig is one of those guys who seems to be able to rise to the occasion when things get very intense.  That is why I think Sunday could be an especially good match.

I alwyas had my own "take" on Greg and his "failings"   Had the very good fortune to work for a short time with Butch Harmon.  This was in the time of Greg to Tiger dominance  (a little before).  Butch made the comment to me that in all of his experience, including watching his dad work with guys, he had NEVER seen a player work harder on his game than Greg did.  (He later said, that he never thought he'd see it, but Tiger worked harder than Greg!).  So, how's this for a contrarian view, MAYBE, Greg worked hard and got the MOST out of his game to simply put himself in position so often.  Yeah that's right, Greg Norman...overachiever!

Pat, obviously your take on pro golf is worth listening to.  That said, I feel Greg had the physical gifts to achieve much more.  His mental lapses cost him big event after big event. 

I saw this on TV over and over.  British Open playoff: bomb his drive in the bunker.  Masters (1989?): hit iron off the 72nd tee.  1986 Masters: half-shank his approach on the 72nd.  He even came close to blowing one of the great final rounds ever in a major, when he missed that 18 inch putt on the 71st hole of his 2nd British Open win. 

I also saw it in person at Olympic in the 1993 Tour Championship.  Nice lead with about 5 holes to play.  Lots of green, with the pin tucked in the right. Tries to hit his 9 iron -- where? -- at the pin.  Dumps in the bunker, makes bogey.  Does same basic thing at 16.  Loses tournament that was in his pocket. 

He came to believe he was snake bit, too.  A TV commentator asked him he felt he was "owed" a big event.  He exasperatedly said he was owed a whole lot of big events. 

He also felt bad luck had stolen tournaments from him.  I heard him refer to other golfers as lucky.  Everyone knew Fred Couples was lucky, he said. 

Over-achiever ot under-achiever?  Hard for me to see the former.   

In part my question was an honest one.  In part, facetious.  My own answer is that Tiger approaches golf like a business.  That sounds cold, but I don't mean it that way.  I think his focus, his mental control -- to win -- is (based on my limited knowledge) unsurpassed.  Architecture?  I don't know that makes much difference to Tiger as a competitor.  Put him on a golf course and he'll try to find a way to win.

[Steve Kline]

I've never been to Firestone but boy does it look boring on TV - except for #16!  Every hole looks like every other hole.  I remember that from the old CBS Golf Classic days but back then you weren't getting the blimp shots and couldn't really see the back and forth nature of the layout.

Is that original Dick Wilson / Joe Lee?

Agreed. Those blimp shots make Firestone look like a very lame course to me. Most of the bunkers look to be well off the fairway and in the trees. I bet Sean Arble can't even watch the tournament because of it.

[Chris Buie]

Those blimp shots make Firestone look like a very lame course to me.

Yes, from the blimp Firestone looks like something my daughter could have designed on her Etch-a-Sketch.  During the broadcast they said only two holes run in a different direction. 
How about that rules official putting them on the clock on the 16th hole?  As I've said here before I am very much against slow play.  Padraig and Tiger are two of the slowest.  However, to intervene in such a match at that particular point was definitely the wrong decision.  It was a great battle until then.

[Brent Hutto]

Chris,

There's no better time to put somebody on the clock than a couple of the biggest "names" in golf playing to win over the final holes on a Sunday. Nobody will notice or care if some nobody on Friday morning gets penalized for slow play.

I think Firestone ultimately proves something I've thought for years. The quality of a course (architectural-interest-wise) has little to no bearing on the outcome of 72 holes of stroke play for the best players in the world. It needs to pose a fair degree of challenge to their games and the rest is up to the players.

Tiger Woods in contention on a Sunday is affected very, very little by the nature of the course he's playing on. It's all about what's happening between his ears and with his golf swing. The ball, the lie, the wind, the place he wants to hit it. That's about 99% of what matters in those situations.

That said, boy wouldn't Firestone be a right waste for the rest of us who depend on the golf course itself to provide a little interest to our otherwise forgettable golf games...

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