Golf Magazine: Top 50 Last 50 Years

[Andy Troeger]

Ben,
I like to think that I used to be pretty good, low single-digit. The last 2-3 years not so much--perhaps 8 hcp.

I have Chambers Bay one spot ahead of Muirfield Village though, so I think its hard to put me in a "style" box.

[PThomas]

I'll rate Rustic Canyon ahead of Spyglass any day. While not a "bad" course, my admiration for Spyglass lessens as the years go by. That Rustic is not there at all is amazing to me. And I haven't seen either, but can Muirfield be rated THAT much higher than Ballyneal, if at all? Does anyone that has played both agree with that one?

Different strokes for different folks. I'll take Spyglass over Rustic and Muirfield Village over Ballyneal, admittedly having only played all of them once. All very good courses, but I'd struggle with putting Rustic on this particular list.

I'm with you David:  I like Ballyneal A LOT more than Muirfield

[Sean Leary]

Andy T,

Do you really like Chambers more than Ballyneal? I usually am aligned with you on courses but I have Ballyneal significantly higher than CB.

[Chip Gaskins]

No Hidden Creek, Tobacco Road, Kingsley Club, or Boston Golf Club?

Bandon Dunes is simply too high, I don't get it.  If we are giving rankings out for ocean views, then Trump has some pretty nice views in Southern California...

Bandon Trails is too low, however given the probable water views I expressed above it is easily explainable in this list.

Ballyneal is way too low.

Murifield Village seems high, but admittedly I have not played it.

I have never really heard anyone tell me Whistling Straits is very good at all, yet it continues to be near the top of every list???

Where is 43) National Golf Club?

[Andy Troeger]

Sean,
Afraid so.

It is interesting that Whistling Straits is so high on most of these lists--while I like the course quite a bit I wouldn't put it as one of Pete Dye's top 3 let alone overall.

[Jim Colton]

Where is 43) National Golf Club?

National Golf Club, Woodbridge Ontario, Canada.  George and Tom Fazio, 1976; Private

I am also a little surprised by Whistling Straits moving up, it seems to have lost some of its luster since it first opened.  Maybe Herb is cooking the books!

[Jonathan Cummings]

Geez, tweek here tweek there but frankly, it's a pretty damn good list!  JC

[Jonathan Cummings]

Tom D - The only HUGE wart on the list is that Black Rock trumps RCCC (or many others for that matter).  To say Black Rock is a better course than RCCC is an embarrassment of epic proportions!  Gozzer Ranch, across the lake from BR, is substantially better than Black Rock but a distant third to RCCC.  Go figure.

JC

[Carl Nichols]

In this same issue, former President Clinton claims to have broken 100 at Ballybunion, even though he was 15 over on three holes.  (He says he was 10 over on the other 15.)  The caddies had the odds of his breaking 100 at 20-to-1.    

[Jim Colton]

Tom D - The only HUGE wart on the list is that Black Rock trumps RCCC (or many others for that matter).  To say Black Rock is a better course than RCCC is an embarrassment of epic proportions!  Gozzer Ranch, across the lake from BR, is substantially better than Black Rock but a distant third to RCCC.  Go figure.

JC

Isn't Black Rock the Engh course that is #27 overall on GD's top 100?  As far as Rock Creek goes, could a minimum vote requirement be its undoing?

[Chris_Blakely]

If that IS based on the rankings which are about to be released (and it pretty much has to be), then it's a shame not to see Rock Creek among the top 50.

Irrespective if this list is based on the rankings or not, the REAL shame is that someone like Mike DeVries got neither Greywalls or The Kingsley Club on that list not that Rock Creek did not make it, especially since Pacific Dunes, Cape Kidnappers, Sebonak, Ballyneal, and Barnbougle Dunes made the list!

Chris
.

[Jimmy Muratt]

In my opinion, some glaring omissions are:

Kingsley Club
Boston Golf Club
Wild Horse
Kinloch

[Tim Bert]

I feel like this should just be a list with no numbers attached. 

I think this should just be a list with Kingsley Club attached.

I can agree with the no numbers approach.

[Matt Harrison]

While I knew it has been well-received in different rankings, I was surpised to see Calusa Pines that high on a pretty exclusive list.  I've played it more than once, and really enjoyed it, especially for a Florida course.  Have not seen much talk about it on this site.  Any opinions?

[Andy Troeger]

Tom D - The only HUGE wart on the list is that Black Rock trumps RCCC (or many others for that matter).  To say Black Rock is a better course than RCCC is an embarrassment of epic proportions!  Gozzer Ranch, across the lake from BR, is substantially better than Black Rock but a distant third to RCCC.  Go figure.

JC

Isn't Black Rock the Engh course that is #27 overall on GD's top 100?  As far as Rock Creek goes, could a minimum vote requirement be its undoing?

Perhaps Golf Digest is not as far off as everyone would like to believe!    If all goes as planned, I am soon to find out.

[Cristian]

Which US RTJ course is on the rise?

There is only one in the top 100 world which was built post 1959; Spyglass. In 2007 Spyglass was ranked 85 in the world, 3 spots behind ballyneal (82). In the new ranking it is ranked ahead of Ballyneal. Spyglass also passes Nanea and Old Sandwich on this list, and is only overtaken by RTJ's own creations Valderrama and Cabo, and Fazio's Shadow Creek. I think this reveals a trend and it would not surprise me if the new ranking will show that the average raters believe the minimalist courses have been overrated in the previous edition.

[Brad Fleischer]

As I have stated before and Jim has pointed out when you do the breakdown I'm sure it comes down to tenths of points. I think just making the list is pretty good in my book. Jim also brought up a couple of good points. I am not exactly sure of the system used but can owners cast votes on there own course ? There are always going to be omissions and arguments etc. I think it's when you have GLARING omissions is when it starts to stink.

Another thing that has struck me lately with all the rankings talk is the designers themselves. Do you think hearing the names Fazio,Dye, Nicklaus, etc hold more water than say Doak, Devries, C and C, Kidd, Phillips Etc when it comes to the avg. golfer. Could the names themselves automatically give you a higher rating ? As Ben Simms has brought up in another topic the Average golfer  does not see things like most of us , even the one's on this site who agree to disagree still see most things eye to eye. Would that make people say "oh nicklaus designed it it has to be good" ? Does that factor into the equation ? I am willing to bet it does  A perfect example I can share is "were going to play that new Baxter Spann golf course" The repy " who ? why don't we go check out that Dye course and the trent jones course I saw online " They did not even have the right Dye for christs sake. So I think this is also a factor. Sometimes a name is all you need.

I have not played enough of the courses on the list to talk about omissions but i'm ok with Kingsley being left out . Let it remain my little secret (not on this board of course) I love it regardless of where it's ranked.

Also if RCCC and Ballyneal nead to be high on the list in order to sell memberships I am also ok with that to .Maybe it would get them to lower there fee's so schmucks like me might be able to join . I'll do my part to keep them afloat

Ben before you start I know I know Doak should not be on the second list he is a household name now , by the way happy B day !!

[Greg Tallman]

I have the Sept 09 issue in hand, and it's the 50th anniversary issue. It only has this top 50 of the last 50. No top 100 until October, I suppose.

That is correct the Top 100 was delayed to make room for the 50/50 list. It will be in the October issue.

Golf DIgest, in my opinion, makes a sales mistake by putting all of their info in one issue... user firendly for sure but spearating a couple of the lists would likely create more demand for ad and magazine sales.