[Jim Colton]

I apologize if this has been posted before.  I just stumbled on this.  Golf Magazine recently listed the top 50 courses built in the last 50 years.

http://www.golf.com/golf/generic/0,31317,1910614,00.html

1. Sand Hills
2. Pacific Dunes
3. Whistling Straits (Straits)
4. Cape Kidnappers
5. Barnbougle Dunes
6. Friar's Head
7. Muirfield Village
8. Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog)
9. TPC Sawgrass (Players Stadium)
10. The Ocean Course at Kiawah Island
11. Kingsbarns
12. Bandon Dunes
13. Loch Lomond
14. The Golf Club
15. Valderrama
16. The European Club
17. Harbour Town
18. Kauri Cliffs
19. Cabo del Sol (Ocean)
20. Nine Bridges
21. Shadow Creek
22. Sebonack
23. Spyglass Hill
24. Ballyneal
25. Old Sandwich
26. The Honors Course
27. Chambers Bay
28. Calusa Pines
29. Wade Hampton
30. Waterville
31. Pete Dye Golf Club
32. Nanea
33. Bandon Trails
34. Ocean Forest
35. Desert Forest
36. Double Eagle
37. World Woods (Pine Barrens)
38. Black Diamond Ranch (Quarry)
39. Blackwolf Run (River)
40. Castle Pines
41. Hazeltine National
42. Jupiter Hills (Hills)
43. National Golf Club
44. Ellerston
45. Trump National (Old)
46. Long Cove
47. Oitavos Dunes
48. Mayacama
49. Spring City (Lake)
50. The Club at Black Rock

[Ben Sims]

No Kingsley Club.  B Dunes 21 spots ahead of B Trails.  Whistling Straits too high.

This list is the reason that course rankings bother me more and more.  I've seen just a few of these, and I just feel like it's "gnats assing" it to put a number on some of these.  I've heard a ton of commentary from the recent Ballyneal/Sand Hills trip from Colton, Halliday, etc.  Are they really 24 spots apart?  Is Muirfield Village really that much better than Desert Forest?  I feel like this should just be a list with no numbers attached. 

[Jim Colton]

I think this gives a little sneak preview of at least part of the top 100 world rankings that I believe are coming out in the next issue.  Here were the top moderns from the 2007 list:

1. Sand Hills (11 overall)
2. Pacific Dunes (13)
3. Friar's Head (33) --> down to 6
4. Barnbougle Dunes (35)
5. Whistling Straits (Straits) (40)  --> up to 3
6. Cape Kidnappers (41) --> up to 4
7. Muirfield Village (42)
8. Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog) (43)
9. Kiawah Island (Ocean Course) (48)
10. TPC at Sawgrass (Stadium) (56)
11. Bandon Dunes (57)
12. The Golf Club (59)
13. Nine Bridges (60)  --> down to 20
14. Kingsbarns (61) --> up to 11
15. Kauri Cliffs (63)  --> down to 18
16. Loch Lomand (66)  --> up to 13
17. Harbour Town (70)
18. Nanea (76) --> down to 32
19. Old Sandwich (77) --> down to 25
20. European Club (78) --> up to 16
21. Ballyneal (82)  --> down to 24
22. Cabo del Sol (Ocean) (88)  --> up to 19
23. Valderrama (89) --> up to 15
24. Shadow Creek (90)  --> up to 21

[Jim Franklin]

No Victoria National just blows me away. I know the treehouse is not a Faz fan, but that course is terrific. No Alotian either which is surprising as well.

[Adam Clayman]

There are quite a few suspect placements. Was this created by the 100 member panel that also creates their world top 100 list?

[Jim Colton]

There are quite a few suspect placements. Was this created by the 100 member panel that also creates their world top 100 list?

"GOLF Magazine's World Top 100 Course Ranking Panel has compiled a list of the 50 greatest golf courses of the last 50 years"

[Jim Nugent]

You guys who know Ballyneal: where would you rank it on this list? 

[Kalen Braley]

You guys who know Ballyneal: where would you rank it on this list? 

Before we get spun off on another ratings bash-fest.  I've played Ballyneal and I appreciate being given the opportunity, and thought the course was nothing short of fantastic.

In this case though, can't just making the top 50 be enough?  I think everyone gets the gist that its underappreciated and undervalued...but hey it still made it to the list right?   

[Jim Franklin]

You guys who know Ballyneal: where would you rank it on this list? 

While I cannot comment on most of the overseas courses, Ballyneal is in my top 5 modern and I have played the majority of the US list.

[Cristian]

I think this gives a little sneak preview of at least part of the top 100 world rankings that I believe are coming out in the next issue.  Here were the top moderns from the 2007 list:

1. Sand Hills (11 overall)
2. Pacific Dunes (13)
3. Friar's Head (33) --> down to 6
4. Barnbougle Dunes (35)
5. Whistling Straits (Straits) (40)  --> up to 3
6. Cape Kidnappers (41) --> up to 4
7. Muirfield Village (42)
8. Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog) (43)
9. Kiawah Island (Ocean Course) (48)
10. TPC at Sawgrass (Stadium) (56)
11. Bandon Dunes (57)
12. The Golf Club (59)
13. Nine Bridges (60)  --> down to 20
14. Kingsbarns (61) --> up to 11
15. Kauri Cliffs (63)  --> down to 18
16. Loch Lomand (66)  --> up to 13
17. Harbour Town (70)
18. Nanea (76) --> down to 32
19. Old Sandwich (77) --> down to 25
20. European Club (78) --> up to 16
21. Ballyneal (82)  --> down to 24
22. Cabo del Sol (Ocean) (88)  --> up to 19
23. Valderrama (89) --> up to 15
24. Shadow Creek (90)  --> up to 21

It is interesting that the RTJ courses, which I think were falling in the rankings the last few editions, seem to be going up again. Are they surpassing just other newer courses or is there a breach of trend in the way these type courses are being rated?
(assuming the almost inevitable; these courses will also be rated higher than in 2007 on the top 100 world list).

[Jim Franklin]

Which US RTJ course is on the rise?

[Michael Moore]

Ellerston ranked ahead of Oitavos Dunes?

[Chris_Blakely]

Ellerston ranked ahead of Oitavos Dunes?

While I can not believe the Kingsley Club is not on the list, Mr. Moore's comment sums these lists up perfectly!!

[Tom_Doak]

If that IS based on the rankings which are about to be released (and it pretty much has to be), then it's a shame not to see Rock Creek among the top 50.

[Ben Sims]

You guys who know Ballyneal: where would you rank it on this list? 

Jim,

I wouldn't say that I "know" BN.  I can recount every shot I took over sixty something holes there.  Where it should be on this list?

I'll say this.  If Bandon Dunes--and I am no David Kidd hater like some--is 11th, then Ballyneal should be higher....much higher.   I must say again, Whistling Straits and Muirfield Village's positioning on that list are quite suspect.

Like I posted earlier.  The numbers really don't mean anything to me on this list.  Inclusion is pretty cool.  Though I've read Tom making a point about places like BN and RCCC having to be ranked highly to get the type of members they are looking for.  So maybe we need to pay more attention to rankings. Prospective members seem to....

[Jim Colton]

I know you can't vote on your own courses, but what would stop, for example, Herb Kohler from giving every other course on his ballot one less point than he would otherwise give, just to make Straits and his courses look relatively better?  Not saying he would do that, but wondering if it's possible to game the system.  I'm guessing the difference between say the 45th & 65th ranking is razor thin, but one sure does look a whole lot better on paper than the other.

Happy b-day to Mr. Sims, by the way.

[Ben Sims]

Thanks Jim.  Unfortunately, the closest I got to playing today was going berserk doing aerobatics above Fazio's Briggs Ranch today.  Looks good from the air. 

[David Stamm]

I'll rate Rustic Canyon ahead of Spyglass any day. While not a "bad" course, my admiration for Spyglass lessens as the years go by. That Rustic is not there at all is amazing to me. And I haven't seen either, but can Muirfield be rated THAT much higher than Ballyneal, if at all? Does anyone that has played both agree with that one?

[Jim Franklin]

I have played both and no I do not agree. I liked BN better but they are different courses.

[Peter Pallotta]

"I'm guessing the difference between say the 45th & 65th ranking is razor thin, but one sure does look a whole lot better on paper than the other."

Jim - I can't comment on this particular list, but you put my question/issue with all such lists very succinctly. The statistical difference between 45th and 65th place is no difference at all (qualitatively), and yet is stark and clear (numerically).  What a gamble it is for any course to participate in the process; it gives "playing the numbers" a whole new twist.

Peter   

[Jim Franklin]

If you think about all of the courses built in the past 50 years, just being mentioned has got to be an honor. Right?

[Greg Tallman]

So, in 2007 24 courses from this list made the Top 100. How many from the 2009 list make it?

I am going to go with 24 again. Old Sandwich drops off the Top 100 list.

[Andy Troeger]

I'll rate Rustic Canyon ahead of Spyglass any day. While not a "bad" course, my admiration for Spyglass lessens as the years go by. That Rustic is not there at all is amazing to me. And I haven't seen either, but can Muirfield be rated THAT much higher than Ballyneal, if at all? Does anyone that has played both agree with that one?

Different strokes for different folks. I'll take Spyglass over Rustic and Muirfield Village over Ballyneal, admittedly having only played all of them once. All very good courses, but I'd struggle with putting Rustic on this particular list.

[Jim Colton]

I have the Sept 09 issue in hand, and it's the 50th anniversary issue. It only has this top 50 of the last 50. No top 100 until October, I suppose.

[Ben Sims]

I'll rate Rustic Canyon ahead of Spyglass any day. While not a "bad" course, my admiration for Spyglass lessens as the years go by. That Rustic is not there at all is amazing to me. And I haven't seen either, but can Muirfield be rated THAT much higher than Ballyneal, if at all? Does anyone that has played both agree with that one?

Different strokes for different folks. I'll take Spyglass over Rustic and Muirfield Village over Ballyneal, admittedly having only played all of them once. All very good courses, but I'd struggle with putting Rustic on this particular list.

Andy,

Just out of curiosity, what level of golf are you playing?  This isn't to knock on your preferences by the way.  I am just trying to make connections between skill and the kind of course preferred.  My friend that played college golf made the preference of Olympic (Lake) to SFGC and like B Trails more than Pac Dunes.  I hear those preferences from a lot of sticks.

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