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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Country Club of Detroit?
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2009, 09:40:52 AM »
The way I always heard the Oakland Hills greens story was that RTJ kept the Ross greens, but added wings and extensions to them to get to his style of larger, compartmentalized greens.  If you look closely at some of the greens, I think you can see it.  Others seem to have been left as is.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jay Flemma

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Re: Country Club of Detroit?
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2009, 03:19:54 PM »
Jeff, I heard the same, but have no way of knowing more or confirming.

I like your tag line...I bleed blue and gold...and NOT for Notre Dame or Michigan!
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Country Club of Detroit?
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2009, 04:37:05 PM »
Jay,

I can't recall who told me that, but I toured OH with Jeff Mingay one day, and another day in the snow by myself.  I think it was Ron Whitten because when I went in the empty maintenance building to introduce myself, I saw the Ross Renovation plan he prepard before he died.  It had red pencil marks where he was moving bunkers back, etc.  Ron had seen it and we discussed the diffrences in the RTJ plan.

I hate to say it, but standing alone with the historic plan, I was never so tempted to steal something in all my life!  I kept hearing Richard Nixon's voice in my head....."but that would be wrong!"

Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Bill Hyde

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Re: Country Club of Detroit?
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2009, 10:53:16 AM »
Hi folks, new to the site (thanks Jay and Ran) but I am a member at CCD and perhaps can shed some light on the discussion. CCD is credited here at the club and elsewhere to Colt, but then again, Kirtland is attributed to him on the Colt Society site as well. Our Invitational actually awards a bronze likeness of Colt to the flight winners. Everyone is drinking the Kool-Aid here. That being said, I am by no means a Colt authority, so I would defer to others on his degree of involvement (if at all) in the current layout. What I can tell you is that it as flat a piece of land as one can find, with a subtle 30' ridge that comes into play on 1 tee, 9 approach and 10 tee. In my opinion, that is exactly what makes our course interesting: It is a wonderful flat parkland course. Over the years, our club has followed the trends of bringing in a prominent architect to modernize and fiddle with things. RTJ had a big influence, but RTJ2 an even bigger one. When I joined, the course really reflected the Jones bunkering style, not at all resembling the originals I am certain. The greens also were heavily altered, with many of them converted to the Jones clan's signature 4000'/sf green with 3 pin placements. Recently, we had Keith Foster come in and do a bunker restoration (very well, for the most part, and he's a great guy) in 06 and develop a master plan which we are studying closely as we need to rebuild the greens due to water issues. This is a good thing in my mind. We plan to restore them to a style more reflective of Colt/Alison contouring (Kirtland serves as a great model) and - it is my hope - return the tees to their rightful place at ground level - rather than elevated - which will significantly enhance the visual impact of what minor topographical interest we have. So, is CCD a dramatic, highly-memorable layout? No, not by any means. We are the girl you fall in love with, slowly, over time. A type that you never get tired of admiring for her restrained beauty, her subtle charm and for never letting you think more of yourself than you deserve.

Jay Flemma

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Re: Country Club of Detroit?
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2009, 10:58:46 AM »
What a great opening post!  Welcome aboard, Bill.  It's going to be a lot of fun learning from you.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

SBendelow

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Re: Country Club of Detroit?
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2009, 04:55:03 PM »
According to the CCD web page the club originates from 1887.  H.S. Colt designed a course for them in 1911.
Does anyone know where the CCD's golf course was prior to 1911 and who might have laid out that course?

David Stamm

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Re: Country Club of Detroit?
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2009, 05:31:51 PM »
I believe Whitten and Cornish have cited Bert Way. If anyone has either of their books, it's credits him for an original design at CCOD. Way designed amongst other courses, Firestone, this weeks venue, before RTJ redid it.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr