[Bryan Izatt]

I've had the opportunity to play Nairn a couple of times and both times I was humbled on the outward bound nine when the strong wind in my face defeated my game.  I thought Nairn was unique in taking you out for 7 straight holes into the prevailing strong winds.

Today, I can say it is not unique.  Yesterday I lost all hope after getting beat up by Silloth on Solway which has 9 of the first ten holes playng upwind into the prevailing wind.  Now, the wind was running around 35 to 40 miles an hour, and the ball was bobbling on the greens, so it was a tough slog.  But 10 holes upwind and only 8 down was a struggle, especially when you're beaten before you get to the downwind holes. Now, the course would be really quite nice, sans wind.  Intersting humps and bumps all over the fairways.  Bounces like I'd imagine Royal St Georges to have.  At least three natural dell greens.  Some blind tee shots.  Devious pot bunkers.  Well worth the trip, although it's sort of out of the way.

Today at North Berwick proved to me on second go around that this is one of the premier links around, and just not for the more famous holes.  And, that it also goes out against the wind.  The second and third are brutes of par 4's into the prevailing "breeze" (only 20 miles per hour).  They seem to be having some trouble with maintaing the bunker faces, but that doesn't detract from the experience.  Pebble has nothing superior to the views and setting at NB.  And the freens were quick and true.  And, the famous holes are justly famous.  The folks in the clubhouse were really gracious, but were also really excited for Cationa Matthews, one of their members.

[Ulrich Mayring]

In my experience a downwind hole does not on average give me the shot back that I lost on the upwind hole. It may be different for very good players, who have their distance control down to a tee. For me strong wind in any shape or form means I struggle scoring-wise.

Ulrich

[Bill_McBride]

Interesting you played the front nine into the wind at Nairn.  When we played there in June 2008 (while you were also in Scotland), the wind at Nairn was consistently a cross wind, only in your face on the downhill #13 and 14.  Otherwise it was across all day and really played hell with our games as well.  Coming in it was hard to play enough left to stay out of the trouble right.  The only downwind hole was that uphill beast (#12?).  Nairn is a lovely course but that crosswind was tough.

[Mark Pearce]

I think every time I have played Silloth it has been into that same wind and it's always a strong wind (though it sounds like you had a real bear of a day). Frustratingly, last time I was there two weeks ago with Niall Carlton and co. I played the front 9 really well (to my handicap, which, in a two or three club wind I was very happy with) before collapsing on the back 9.  That's twice this year (the other being Lundin Links) where I have found that playing in a strong wind I have played better into the wind than downwind.  I agree though that Silloth can destroy you on that front 9 with a wind.

[Jamie Barber]

I third the opinions above. For some reason downwind never seems any easier on a windy day!

[Andrew Mitchell]

Agreed re the comments on the problems of playing downwind.  On links courses I always find it more difficult to stop the ball on the green when playing downwind, particularly if it is also fast & firm.  Playing into the wind isn't as difficult even if you are having to take two or three clubs more because of the headwind.

A cross wind also makes shot judgement more difficult in trying to guage how much to allow for the wind.  It's amazing the number of times a truly struck shot seems to bore through the wind without deviation, particualrly when you've started it left or right to allow for the wind! 

[Bryan Izatt]

I agree, downwind is no bargain.  But,it's more fun trying to play downwind shots than it is slogging into the wind.
In any event, I was dead after nine holes in these experiences, so my hope was blown away, not to be resurrected by the inward half.

Bill,

I had played Nairn twice into the teeth of a gale on the front.  I'm about 10 miles from there right now, and if I returned, the current wind would be different.  Coming from left to right on the front -  a southerly wind.  No bargain.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

I had played Nairn twice into the teeth of a gale on the front.  I'm about 10 miles from there right now, and if I returned, the current wind would be different.  Coming from left to right on the front -  a southerly wind.  No bargain.

 We were just the opposite, right to left going out, left to right coming home.  I had the impression from our caddies that this is the prevailing wind (would be in your face gong out at Dornoch), but apparently it boxes the compass all the time.

[Steve Kline]

Assuming that the wind hasn't made the hole unreachable in regulation I would rather play into the wind for several reasons: I am able to complete my backswing more easily, I'm pretty good at the low punch shot, and I know the ball will land softly so I can control it more easily. Downwind is my next preferred wind but it only really helps a lot if it makes a par 4 drivable or a par 5 more easily reached in two because controlling distance down wind is much harder. Cross winds are always tough because you have to aim at the trouble more and I hate a left to right cross wind (as a right handed golfer). I  have the same miss as Tiger - a big block, which makes that type of wind a nightmare.

[Bryan Izatt]

Bill,

I was at Castle Stuart today.  About 10 miles west of Nairn.  The starter is a member of Nairn.  I asked him about prevailing wind at Nairn and he said out of the west straight up the firth.  Of course it must move around some.  I was wrong about the wind direction today.  It was from the prevailing direction and would have been in your face going out at Nairn - around 35 mph. 

Steve,

At these wind speeds downwind is better.    Sidewind wuld be a nightmare.  Into the wind I couldn't reach an 360 par 4 with two solid shots, nor a 210 par 3 with driver, and I'm not a short hitter.

[David_Tepper]

Bryan -

I presume you will post your impressions of Castle Stuart soon. Will be very interested to read what you have to say. Was it as windy there as it was at Nairn?

My experience playing quite a bit in the Highlands (mostly at Dornoch) over the past several years is that the wind seems to come either from the west or directly opposite (out of the east). Holes that are reachable with a drive & 9-iron one day can be unreachable with a drive & 5-wood a couple of days later. 

DT

[Brian_Ewen]

Because I had never seen Silloth before , I offered to caddy for a friend in last months English Mid Am .

Over the 4 days , I was lucky to see it play dead calm , blow a hoolie , and have the wind prevailing and non prevailing , and the course really impressed me .

It even switched mid round with the tide one day , which meant we had the majority of the holes downwind .

Over the three rounds there was only one person under par , thats how tough it played .

What a lovely under rated course Silloth is .

[David_Tepper]

Brian -

I have heard that, on seaside courses, the wind can switch direction when the tide changes.
Based on what you just wrote, it sounds like this is true. Is that correct?

DT   

[Jamie Barber]

^ most definitely. Although in the UK there is a prevailing westerly wind, I find playing on the coast the wind is rarely the same two days running and can switch during a round with the tide.

We have par3s that play anything from a driver to 8iron, depending on the wind.

[Brian_Ewen]

Yes , the wind changing with the tide is something the Silloth regulars were well used to .

For those that know Silloth , we were on the fairway of the par 5 13th when the wind turned , and it completely changed how we played the hole .

Must admit , from hearing a lot about the Hogs Back 13th , to being non plussed on the first round , I really grew to like that hole .

[Kyle Henderson]

I've had the opportunity to play Nairn a couple of times and both times I was humbled on the outward bound nine when the strong wind in my face defeated my game.  I thought Nairn was unique in taking you out for 7 straight holes into the prevailing strong winds.

Not to be picky, but the 4th doesn't play westward.

[Bill_McBride]

I've had the opportunity to play Nairn a couple of times and both times I was humbled on the outward bound nine when the strong wind in my face defeated my game.  I thought Nairn was unique in taking you out for 7 straight holes into the prevailing strong winds.

Not to be picky, but the 4th doesn't play westward.

Bu it's so short!  What a nice little par 3 into that bowl with the sea behind.

[Niall C]

Brian -

I have heard that, on seaside courses, the wind can switch direction when the tide changes.
Based on what you just wrote, it sounds like this is true. Is that correct?

DT   

David

Very often on links the wind will pick up at lunch time as the tide comes in (or maybe thats just a west coast thing ?).

Niall

[Doug Siebert]

I've had some really great success in some extreme winds in GB&I but of course some pretty awful days as well, scoring wise.  But I really enjoy playing in the kind of wind that makes the ball oscillate at all times, roll uphill, have trouble staying in large sections of the green etc.  Combined with the terrain in those courses over there which is quite different than the courses I play here its a terrific mental challenge trying to come up with shots and imagine what they'll do and see if I can manage to hit them how I imagined and if they behave after leaving the face how I imagined.

I guess since I don't have shooting the lowest score as my primary goal for a round of golf in the first place its easier for me, but you really need to have a mindset where you don't care if you shoot 70 or 100, and truly play one shot at a time.  Each shot is its own challenge, and sometimes hitting a really bad shot makes me enjoy the round more because I find myself with such an impossible or even laughably ridiculous circumstance that it is far more memorable than if I'd played the previous shot correctly and was playing my next from position 'A'.  Those position 'F' (or 'N' or 'Q' and especially 'Z') are quite more entertaining to me, and kind of what I feel I signed up for by making the trip overseas.

When I've seen good players struggle - guys who are better than me under normal conditions but do worse than me when conditions get bad I've noticed two things about their play.  1) they lack the imagination and confidence/foolishness to invent shots they don't know how to play....you will find yourself in circumstances you would not have previously encountered, let alone practiced for, so if your only fallback is shots you've practiced on the range or played previously on the course, you will eventually be stuck.  2) their mindset is one of a golfer who expects he "should" shoot a certain number.....its sort of the opposite of someone going low getting out of their comfort zone and losing control of their game.  They'll go high and get outside of their comfort zone and mentally they fall apart.

Maybe guys who live and die by the number on their scorecard will never understand how I can be livid at home after parring a par 5 but smiling and enjoying myself when I take a 7 on a par 4 at Ballybunion, because I managed to find a spot 6 feet off the right edge of the 7th green where the wind was so strong it was impossible to hold the green AT ALL, and I'd proven it with two absolutely perfect chips that had paused for a moment just on the edge of the fringe on the highest point, with the first finally falling back and ending where I started, and the second trickling faster and faster pushed by the wind until it fell off the far side of the green.  From where all four of us ended up, one guy managed to hole his shot after a huge gust blew and turned the ball 90* straight into the cup!  I love fighting the course and elements over that sort of thing.

[Sean_A]

I think the wind in mid to southern England is prevailing s'westerly.  It seems the more north you go the more it can change from that, but in the past few years the wind seems to be doing all kinds of crazy stuff - a lot of northerly and easterly winds.

Anyplace with a decent tide (and much of the UK qualifies!) the wind can shift when the tide shifts.  I know at Burnham the best players and those who want the best chance to score will play early as the wind is usually worse in the afternoon.  BUT, sometimes you catch that all downwind day with the changing tide and it is lovely.

Bryan, take heart, there are a lot UK golfers who don't particularly like wind - especially in the summer when the rough is up.

Ciao

[Bryan Izatt]

David,

My impressions of Castle Stuart will be up in a moment on the other thread.


At Dornoch the winds could well be out of the east sometimes - I presume there is an onshore breeze on hot days when the land warms up more than the sea. 

I played at Dornoch yesterday with a fellow from West Surrey who was up for the Carnegie Shield and he said that he knew pople who set their tee times based on tidal charts.

Niall,

Don't the tides there rotate around the clock with the cycle of the moon.  Afternoon onshore breezes likely result from warming of the land, although I'm not a meteorologist.

Kyle,

You're right.  It is downwind.  The club course guide even says so.  I guess my hopes were so lost I forgot about that little respite.   

Doug,

You have a strange sense of adventure, although I once played at Rustic Canyon when the winds were so bad that the ball would not stay on at least 5 greens.  Of course, it wasn't so bad since they let us play for free.

Sean,

I do take heart.  Two breathless days at Dornoch will do that for you.   

[Mark Pearce]

I know that a number of members at Crail consult a tidal chart before deciding when to play in competitions.

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