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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« on: August 04, 2009, 11:44:49 AM »
I would propose that more matches between website members be played on interesting courses and reported on with respect to how the course affected the play of the holes. The interesting part would be how the strategic options of the hole were attacked in playing a hole by the opponents and how it contributed to wins and loses of the hole in the match.

I felt this was where the GRUDGE MATCH thread would lead, and would be valuable contribution to the website, not a detriment as Bogey would suggest.

OK, OK, Cookie Monster and Big Bird got a little carried away with trash talk and the like, but still I thought the thread was going to be valuable until Kalen injured himself.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tom Huckaby

Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 11:49:45 AM »
Garland, I think that is a hell of a good idea.  Hell I even like the trash talk myself.  But if we could have summaries of matches played on great courses, it could only help in gaining understanding of the course.  Hell the recaps also will likely be good reads as well.

Put me down as all for it.  Next time I have one I will do a recap for sure.  Not sure when that will be.

TH

Anthony Gray

Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2009, 11:52:07 AM »


  OK Bogey........you can come.

  Anthony


Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2009, 11:55:48 AM »
I also think it's a cool idea. I'd love to play a match and report on it.

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2009, 12:17:53 PM »
Count me in as well for "GCA's Wonderful World of Golf"!
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Dave Falkner

Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2009, 12:33:10 PM »
Ill bite

Ill host a match at St Georges CC (1917 Emmett) anyone interested?

Phil_the_Author

Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2009, 12:41:15 PM »
Bayley,

I have a different sort of idea for a thread that I think will prove quite interesting and will genrate some intersting discussions. I intend to post it on August 14th for a very particular reason. If someone can guess what it is before then i'll reveal what I have in mind!

Jim Colton

Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2009, 12:41:32 PM »
Although not really from a architectural perspective, if you have at least two hours to kill, I'd urge you to check out 'The Match' between Jim and Jeff Tang last year at Arcadia Bluffs.

http://wegoblogger31.blogspot.com/2008/08/wisconmichigan-golf-trip-day-five-one.html

I also outlined a match I had with Jeff Tang recently at Ballyneal.  We could probably get into more architectural hole-by-hole details if you want -- Jeff is more encyclopedic about holes and shots than I am.  The thing about one match is some of the architectural details get lost in the shuffle since a lot of is based on one specific tee-ball position and one specific pin placement.  Although I can wax poetic about the playing characteristics of the yucca plant.

http://wegoblogger31.blogspot.com/2009/07/ballynizzle-cup-part-two-monday-singles.html

"In the featured match-up, it looked more like it would be 95's instead of 75's early on, but we both settled down a little bit. I hacked around the 2nd hole and gave Jefe a 1-up advantage, then Jefe returned the favor on the 3rd to bring it back to all-square. I looked all but out of it the 4th hole, but somehow managed to get up and down from the deep front bunker for bogey to salvage a halve. The 5th and 6th holes were halved with pars (okay, bogeys) and the match remained all-square.

I mentioned that Ballyneal was a great match-play course. There are a lot of half-par holes that can make or break the match. The underrated aspect of Ballyneal is the lack of tee markers, which was nothing short of a brilliant decision on the O'Neal's part. In match play, having the honors and choosing the tee to play from can be a huge strategic advantage. With the tee, I tried to use my superior (albeit diminishing) length over Jefe to give me an edge, not by moving the tees back but by moving them up starting on the short par 4 7th hole. Jefe made a mess of the 7th to give me a 1-up advantage. Then on 8, I moved up two sets of tees to really bring into play the bunkers that pinch the fairway. I blasted a drive through the gap and reached the green in two with a pitching wedge. Jefe had to lay-up off the tee with a fairway wood but was still in the greenside bunker in two after a solid hybrid. My lag putt made it to conceded birdie range, and Jefe's birdie attempt to halve went way past the hole. I had a 2-up advantage.

On the 9th hole, I moved up a couple sets, originally so I could successfully hit a 4-iron to the fairway instead of blasting a driver 60-yards left again. But once my caddie told me it was only 313 to the pin from the tee, I pulled out driver and hit the fairway for the first time, ending up just short and right of the green. Jefe layed up with fairway wood again and hit a beautiful shot right down the middle. We both burned the edges with our birdie tries and the match remained 2-up at the turn..."
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 12:43:40 PM by Jim Colton »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2009, 12:43:02 PM »
Ill bite

Ill host a match at St Georges CC (1917 Emmett) anyone interested?

I hope someone can take advantage of Dave's generous offer soon, I would love to learn more about this course.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Peter Pallotta

Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2009, 12:47:15 PM »
Count me in as well for "GCA's Wonderful World of Golf"!

or "The Thriller in Vanilla"....

Peter

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2009, 01:52:02 PM »
I think the most interesting scenario would be for two GCAers to complete on a [good, discussion-worthy] course they've never played with commentary by a well informed host on the relationship/impact/effect between their play and the golf course.

WW

Mike McGuire

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2009, 02:03:37 PM »
This is going to be fascinating. The higher the handicaps the better.

Like when someone comes to your table and starts to describe his round - " On the first hole I hit .........."
I stop them with a line from Dan Jenkins " Hey Pal if I have to go all 18, i need caddy fees"

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2009, 02:07:41 PM »
The golf courses are far more interesting than the people playing them.

Anthony Gray

Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2009, 02:09:44 PM »
The golf courses are far more interesting than the people playing them.



  John........you must be scratch.

  Anthony


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2009, 02:13:22 PM »
This is going to be fascinating. The higher the handicaps the better.

Like when someone comes to your table and starts to describe his round - " On the first hole I hit .........."
I stop them with a line from Dan Jenkins " Hey Pal if I have to go all 18, i need caddy fees"

Not sure what you're getting at Mike, but my intention is for description of how the strategic options influenced the win/loss of a hole. That in itself is self limiting. Higher handicaps may have more win/loss holes, but one can drop the total muck ups from the discussion.

The following tends towards what I would like to see. Unfortunately, here the strategic choices are dominated by selecting the teeing position.

...
I mentioned that Ballyneal was a great match-play course. There are a lot of half-par holes that can make or break the match. The underrated aspect of Ballyneal is the lack of tee markers, which was nothing short of a brilliant decision on the O'Neal's part. In match play, having the honors and choosing the tee to play from can be a huge strategic advantage. With the tee, I tried to use my superior (albeit diminishing) length over Jefe to give me an edge, not by moving the tees back but by moving them up starting on the short par 4 7th hole. Jefe made a mess of the 7th to give me a 1-up advantage. Then on 8, I moved up two sets of tees to really bring into play the bunkers that pinch the fairway. I blasted a drive through the gap and reached the green in two with a pitching wedge. Jefe had to lay-up off the tee with a fairway wood but was still in the greenside bunker in two after a solid hybrid. My lag putt made it to conceded birdie range, and Jefe's birdie attempt to halve went way past the hole. I had a 2-up advantage.

On the 9th hole, I moved up a couple sets, originally so I could successfully hit a 4-iron to the fairway instead of blasting a driver 60-yards left again. But once my caddie told me it was only 313 to the pin from the tee, I pulled out driver and hit the fairway for the first time, ending up just short and right of the green. Jefe layed up with fairway wood again and hit a beautiful shot right down the middle. We both burned the edges with our birdie tries and the match remained 2-up at the turn..."
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jim Colton

Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2009, 02:21:02 PM »
Bayley,

  I wouldn't say unfortunately...on those holes the teeing position was picked to bring the key strategic areas of the hole into play even more.  The possibility of driving the green on 7th, hitting driver on 8 and 9 and going through the chute versus laying up and hanging back.  If we had simply teed off from the back tees, these strategic options would've come less into play for these two golfers.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2009, 03:45:24 PM »
Bayley,

  I wouldn't say unfortunately...on those holes the teeing position was picked to bring the key strategic areas of the hole into play even more.  The possibility of driving the green on 7th, hitting driver on 8 and 9 and going through the chute versus laying up and hanging back.  If we had simply teed off from the back tees, these strategic options would've come less into play for these two golfers.

The tee option is great for match play.  In my final day's match, I kept trying to tee off in spots that would affect my opponent's club selection from the tee as he typically hit the ball 10 or 20 yards longer than me. 

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2009, 04:46:47 PM »
Bayley,

  I wouldn't say unfortunately...on those holes the teeing position was picked to bring the key strategic areas of the hole into play even more.  The possibility of driving the green on 7th, hitting driver on 8 and 9 and going through the chute versus laying up and hanging back.  If we had simply teed off from the back tees, these strategic options would've come less into play for these two golfers.

The tee option is great for match play.  In my final day's match, I kept trying to tee off in spots that would affect my opponent's club selection from the tee as he typically hit the ball 10 or 20 yards longer than me. 

Isn't Ballyneal simply a spectacular course for match play?
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Scott Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2009, 07:36:30 PM »
Attempt at humor excised, lest it be taken seriously.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 07:58:19 PM by Scott Sander »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A proposal for valuable threads on this website
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2009, 08:04:17 PM »
Scott Sander, reformed access whore.  ;D
Attempt at humor excised, lest it be taken seriously.


"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

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