[Mike_Young]

Wow....I was just at Long shadow and a rater came in with a friend for a scheduled round of golf....this particular rater had done everything correctly and there was no problem in offering a comp....you know what happened?  He said thanks for the comp but please take the standard fee from my credit card and  donate it to Junior golf .....man that stops all the arguments re raters.....ball is now in the golf course's court....   That's a great idea to handle most situations where you fear someone may think you are requesting a comp etc....I can't think of one reason not to ever do this....

[Anthony Gray]

  CLASS

[Rob Rigg]

Does Long Cove have a junior program to contribute to, and how does he know the money will actually go to junior golf. Sounds good on the surface, but it might just be a gesture to make the rater feel good about himself in front of others. Hopefully he actually does something personally to promote junior golf rather than just throw money at it. Sounds bogus to me.

Them raters just can't do nothin' right.

[Anthony Gray]

Does Long Cove have a junior program to contribute to, and how does he know the money will actually go to junior golf. Sounds good on the surface, but it might just be a gesture to make the rater feel good about himself in front of others. Hopefully he actually does something personally to promote junior golf rather than just throw money at it. Sounds bogus to me.

 
  Kelly....Kelly...Kelly

[Rob Rigg]

What if the rater had just kindly refused to accept the comp and elected to pay - would there be an ulterior motive then?

Or is it better for the rater to accept the comp and just buy some stuff in the pro shop?

[Melvyn Morrow]

A real great idea for raters……..Don’t

Melvyn

[John Mayhugh]

Does Long Cove have a junior program to contribute to, and how does he know the money will actually go to junior golf. Sounds good on the surface, but it might just be a gesture to make the rater feel good about himself in front of others. Hopefully he actually does something personally to promote junior golf rather than just throw money at it. Sounds bogus to me.

Mike would probably be more familiar with Long Shadow.

[Michael Blake]

Mike:

That certainly is a nice gesture on his part and seems like a good idea.

[George Pazin]

The simplest solution would be for everyone to be less cynical about others and just worry about himself and his own conduct.

[David Druzisky]

I know it would be next to impossible to do at private clubs but do most raters not even announce they are coming?

[Mike_Young]

Kelly,
I understand your comments and why you might see it that way....I can also....BUT in this case I happened to know the rater and he had called me to see about playing....he volunteered.....and knowing this person I feel he was sincere....
Yes, it could be used as a "feel good" by some...and you are correct that many courses will never send it to Jr. gollf...No LS does not have a program but I would hope the owner would send it to the State Jr Golf fund....Hey I didn't say I was rater happy or anything...
Take care,
Mike

[Gib_Papazian]

Kelly Blake Moran,

It is evident to me that you have never tried to coach an underfunded golf squad; Trust me, I am uniquely qualified to discuss the subject. Access is a constant challenge and the coach inevitably ends up covering the shortfall - ask me how I know. I cannot grasp how it is possible that an offer by a rater in the best interest of a largely ignored segment of the golf population can somehow be interpreted BY A GOLF COURSE ARCHITECT as a pretentious display of largese.

Are you kidding me? I sent you a private message and your response knocked me off my chair. Maybe you ought to examine your motives and try to identify the source of your angst. Is it junior golf? Raters? You are very well respected by your peers, raters and members of the Treehouse, so to compare an act of generosity from a true gentleman with the grifters and courtesans who run our banks and government is ludicrous.

I'm about to get in the car and drive two hours to finish up my assignments for the year. Your post so thoroughly raised the bile in my throat that if I am offered a comp, I'm going to do the very same thing and donate a green fee or two for the local high school team that plays there. As a matter of fact, going forward I think I'll do that at every public facility I get assigned.

Who *exactly* do you think is going to be playing your golf courses in 20 years? If the game does not grow, you and your colleagues are eventually going to be out of a job. And if you are out of a job and no new courses get built, there will be no need for raters or writers like moi either . . . . the ying and the yang.

Think about it.    

[Scott Szabo]

Why do anything nice for anybody, if your motives will always be in question. 

[Dean Stokes]

A real great idea for raters……..Don’t

Melvyn

Classic answer Melvyn. Rather than ask for a comped round or feel the need to donate to junior golf - just don't rate!!!!

May I ask at this juncture as I really do not know the answer to this question; is a rater paid by the golfing publications when they have to travel, pay a green fee and spend a day away from work to rate a course? Thank you.

PS. I have never bought a golf magazine in order to find out the rankings of golf courses and I could care less if a cross section of so called golf experts think Pine Valley is better than Shinnecock or Pebble Beach. I will decide for myself whenever I get the chance to play these greats.

[Kenny Baer]

My cousin's wife who is a pro at a well known course just tells the raters that they have a special rate....since it is a private club  they only take cash and she pockets the money.  Last year she said she made an additional $2,500.

[Michael Whitaker]

Kenny - I hope you are joking. If not, your cousin's wife is a thief. What she is doing is the same as a clerk pocketing cash sales in a department store. She could be (should be) brought up on charges.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Dean

My meaning is to say nothing and just pay, perhaps a novel idea but just too radical.

Melvyn

[Ben Sims]

Wow.  Is this where angst, sarcasm, ridicule, etc., has led us to on this site?

Let's recap the facts of this thread.

1) Thread starts by architect noting a cool way for a rater to duck the "comped" bullet and give back to the local community.

2) Other architect states on thread that said good deed is not a good deed at all, and is just a cop out by a rater.

3) Resident anti 21st century guru posts that the rater should simply not rate, or not tell the course that he's a rater, or something like that.

4) Man of reason explains why it is a good idea to give back to local community. 

5) Georgia fan Kenny brings moment of levity to the otherwise needlessly violent thread and...

6) Gets relative accused of thieving by someone obviously not paying attention to the humor in the previous post.

I can hardly stand it anymore.  Is this what we've come to on GCA.com?  Are we so hateful to each other that jokes cannot be tolerated, and a good deed by someone never goes unpunished by the cynical?  Can't we just all agree that what this particular rater did was a good and noble thing?  Sheesh!!!

[Stu Grant]

Great reply Ben, this thread had gotten really frustrating to read.

[Kenny Baer]

Ben,

Well said.

Mike,

How does Long Shadow look?  I am thinking about driving down to play Cusco and LS in a couple of weeks.  Last summer when I was there the fairways were really having some trouble growing in, 18 was mostly dirt.

I love the layout and think LS has tremendous potential; it is tons of fun.

Gib,

Do you think your contributions to the game are equal to....Nicklaus, Palmer, Donald Ross, maybe Robert Trent Jones, or more on the level of a George Crump....I am getting emotional writing this just knowing all you have gone through while rating the great golf courses of this country.  Do tell

[Charlie Goerges]

Heavens to Betsy!!! With all the tough words back and forth I thought I'd stumbled into one of those notorious croquet discussion groups for a minute there. Thankfully I realized that I'm safe and sound here at GCA.com. (Those croquet players are famously vindictive)

[Sean_A]

I am in a few societies where the organizer insists on making a donation to the junior section.  The few tikes I had a free game in the States I tried to make a donation to the junior section or the the equivalent of the Captain's Charity and I just got blank stares.

Ciao 

[JWinick]

Not sure why raters are that hated on this website.... Kelly probably has some bad experiences with them.   The only time I would have a problem with a generous gesture is if it was made and promoted solely to curry favor.   Doesn't look like that happened here.   However, it might be irritating to the owner to have him then make a donation to a non-existant charity.  If the owner had a March of Dimes chariity box, then that would be the place to do make the donation.   The proprietor should chose the charity, if possible.

On the other hand, most golf courses right now are losing money, so I would have just offered to pay and left it at that.

[Gary Slatter]

great idea!

[Gib_Papazian]

Kenny Baer,

You wouldn't know George Crump from George Jefferson. Every Treehouse needs it sloth and you have certainly found your station here. Kindly enumerate your contributions and commitment to the game of golf and I'll do the same. Isn't there is teenage chat room somewhere for obtuse dipsticks?


Kelly,

Golf courses have to turn a profit or they do not survive. Thus, juniors often do not get access because they are shut out economically. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. I think you're blinded by distaste for the same raters who all seem to hold a high opinion of your work. That is very strange.

Anything that anybody does for junior golf is excellent in my view - and I still do not see the connection between a well-meaning rater trying to contribute to the growth of the game and a bunch of white-collar pickpockets.

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