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TEPaul

Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #200 on: August 06, 2009, 05:04:25 PM »
"The only question is whether the Run Book contains any more information that what was cited in the Weeks book.  My guess is no, because if there was anything you'd have brought it forward."


It does. It contains a ton more information than what was cited in the Weeks book. I'm sure that you might be able to appreciate that a club history book of 150 pages the majority of which is not even about golf is not going to just verbatim cite the entirety of a club's executive committee administrative records. Have you ever seen a club history book that has done that or even come remotely close to doing that? I have maybe a hundred club history books in my office and I've sure never seen one do that---not even remotely close to doing that. It's pretty obvious to any club membership that doing something like that would be incredibly boring and uneccesary to a membership for who those club history books are written. A history book writer like Weeks (he ran a national magazine) did it well with that history book of his for what the club wanted.

If some really detailed golf architecture historian wants to dig way deeper than that in the golf architectural details of a club they would need to really get into the details of something like a club's executive committee and other committee meeting minutes and records. That's why newspaper articles generally only tell a small part of the story, as do most general club history books.  



"You only hide things that hurt your case."


Moriarty, you've been saying that to me and about me constantly and for far too long. Consequently, I will never address you or respond directly to you again. To me it will be like you don't exist on here which frankly I really wish you didn't or even ever did!
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 05:06:37 PM by TEPaul »

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #201 on: August 06, 2009, 05:08:50 PM »
In progress:



 :)

God, I hope thats not the train HH Barker was taking to Philadelphia.

TEPaul

Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #202 on: August 06, 2009, 05:18:17 PM »
Tom:

Instead of posting pictures of train wrecks would you mind reading very carefully my post #189 and dealing with it and answering it if you can? You want to further what is important architectural information and the discussion of it, don't you?

The hole by hole details of that original nine compared to Leeds' "Long Nine" on which they held the 1898 US Open would be pretty important architectural information on Myopia's architectural history, don't you think?

I do.

You go first. I'd like to see what you know about that.

TEPaul

Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #203 on: August 06, 2009, 05:20:57 PM »
On that train wreck photo you just posted I missed the caption. That is very funny, hilarious actually. Bravo, I didn't realize you had a sense of humor but that's nice to know at this point.

I'm trying to make out the name of the station on the wall. If it's Boston that must mean HH Barker routed and designed Myopia and not Leeds or Campbell or those three stooges from the club one of which couldn't have done it because he was the Master of the Fox Hounds and that apparently disqualifies him even if he had his own golf course on his own estate in Ipswich a year before he and the other two stooges footed it over Myopia in the melting snow and staked out nine tees and greens.

But it looks like the name of that station is in French which would mean Barker probably routed and designed every golf course in France.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 05:26:31 PM by TEPaul »

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #204 on: August 06, 2009, 05:22:02 PM »
Tom Mac,

It might just be! I think I see a sketch of the Merion routing plan in the rubble in the lower right......Good to see you have kept your sense of humor!

I do enjoy reading all the old articles you and a few others find.  I know those take time to find, even with the internet.  We are all a bit better off for those efforts.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

TEPaul

Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #205 on: August 06, 2009, 05:30:28 PM »
It looks like that train wreck was in France. Can you imagine what the engineer must have said just before impact?


How do you say aaaaAAAAAAAWWWHHH Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!!! in French?

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #206 on: August 06, 2009, 06:24:25 PM »
"This thread is another in a long list of threads where you have produced nothing."


Tom:

Well, at least today I produced the information that Myopia's "Run Book" was not the same thing as Weeks' 1975 history book which you apparently thought I was trying to say or you apparently thought it was. Would you say that was "nothing?"  ??? At least I taught you what Myopia called its executive committee administrative record keeping book. Pretty unusual and cool term for what most all other clubs call their board and committee meeting records, don't you think?

At least you could have acknowledged learning that from me which by the way you absolutely never do or admit to (research snobs like you are consitutionally incapable of acknowledging things like that, I guess ;) ). I tell you or teach you something on these threads and you either say it makes no sense or about a day later you act like you knew it all along or thought of it yourself.  


TEP
I knew all about the Run Book, you've told us about it many times before. Its a cute name, which is why I think you like bringing it up, of course the book is of no use in this discussion other than the one quote, which is hardly enlightening. I think you missed the whole point of that club records = club history comment. Let me bring back the quote from last year I was referring to.


It seems the original holes were laid out beginning in March 1894 ('when the winter snow melted') by three Myopia Hunt Club members, R.M. Appleton, "Squire" Merrill and A.P. Gardner. The club records even describes most of these first nine holes. The club record also describes these three "partners" footing it over the terrain staking out tee and green sites. The recording of the club Secretary at that time, S. Dacre Bush, describes the proceedings of the club that led to the laying out of the nine hole course.


The point of my post was to show how were misrepresenting the minutes (where have we heard that before?). You were trying to make the claim the club records (the minutes or Run book or whatever you prefer) say that there three partners were footing it over the terrain staking out tees etc, etc. The club records don't say that, the history says that. You were obviously confused over what are the club records and what is the history. Here is a quote from the history and I've underlined the part from the club records/Run Book/minutes. I hope this helps.

"It was fortunate that the man who suggested golf at Myopia was the newly elected Master of Fox Hounds, R.M. Appleton. “Bud” Appleton was the indispensable go-between, so popular he could placate the Hunt and practical enough not to minimize the difficulties. When the snows melted in the spring of 1894, Appleton, with two fellow members, “Squire” Merrill and A.P. Gardner, footed it over the Club acres, spotting the tees and pacing off the distance to provisional greens, probably marking them with pegs.

Appleton and his partners reported to the executive committee that nine holes could be ready for play in three months, and the speed with which their recommendation was followed is evident in this terse entry in the Club records by Secretary S. Dacre Bush:

        'At a meeting of the Executive Committee March 1894 it was decided to build a golflinks on the Myopia grounds.'

Accordingly the ground was examined, and in opposition from a number of members because the ground was so rough, nine greens were sodded and cut, and play began June 1st, 1894. Members and associates soon began to show much interest in the game, and the first tournament was held June 18th , 1894. About twenty five entries. Won by Herbert Leeds of Boston who was scratch. Score first round 58; second round 54; Total 112. The second tournament held on July 4th , 1894. About twenty entries. Won by Herbert Leeds, scratch 52-61-113.'”


TEPaul

Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #207 on: August 06, 2009, 06:52:32 PM »
"The point of my post was to show how were misrepresenting the minutes (where have we heard that before?)."

Tom:

I'm not misrepresenting the minutes but you might be.


"You were trying to make the claim the club records (the minutes or Run book or whatever you prefer) say that there three partners were footing it over the terrain staking out tees etc, etc."


I wasn't trying to make that claim that is precisely what I was saying.


"The club records don't say that, the history says that."


I know what the history book says as it's been here in my office for two years. How do you know what the records or Run Book says? Have you ever seen it? Have you ever read it? If you've never seen it or read it how can you say what it doesn't say? That really is ridiculous.


"You were obviously confused over what are the club records and what is the history."


I'm not confused at all over what are the club records (Run Book) and what is the 1975 history book and I never have been. As you just said I explained the difference to you a year ago, as I just did again today.



"Here is a quote from the history and I've underlined the part from the club records/Run Book/minutes. I hope this helps."


I don't need you to quote for me from the Myopia history book; as I said I've had it in my office for two years. Matter of fact, it's right next to me. I've read the whole thing a number of times and I know what Weeks said from the Run Book and I know what he said himself and I know what the Run Book says. Where do you suppose Weeks got the idea that Appleton, Merrill and Gardner routed the tees and greens in the early spring of 1894? Do you think he just dreamed that up on his own?

Oh that's right, I guess you do think he just dreamed that up on his own as today you called most of Weeks' history book a "fantasy land" or some such thing.


How about post #189, Tom? Are you going to try to deal with and explain in detail that original hole by hole nine hole course and how it was different from Leed's "Long Nine" or are you going to continue to avoid that altogether, as you have been doing? I thought you said you wanted to advance this converstion with some important information. Don't you consider that to be important information on this subject of Myopia?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 06:56:17 PM by TEPaul »

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #208 on: August 06, 2009, 07:05:43 PM »
TEPaul

If you have any facts, bring them forward.  Otherwise, you are wasting our time.  Again.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #209 on: August 06, 2009, 07:11:11 PM »

“Again, for those who apparently credit Leeds with all that was good about Myopia, what changes did Leeds make to the first nine holes laid out by Willie Campbell, and when did he make those changes?”

Do you know the answers to that question Tom? If so why don’t you go ahead and tell us as much as you possibly can hole by hole with the details of each hole what that original nine hole course was like and what Leeds’ so-called “Long Nine” was like and the details of how the first one differed from the second one on which the 1898 US Open was held at Myopia?

Can you do that for us? If not just let me know if you’d like me to try to do it for you and Moriarty and others on here who may be interested in that important architectural information. Would you call that furthering this conversation on the architectural history and evolution of Myopia or are you just going to tell me again that even that is just me lecturing you and others on here and telling you and others what wonderful access I have?

Please go first in explaining the answers to that question in as much detail as you can or at least tell us you just can’t do that and why.

Thanks


TEP
I don't have your inside connections, so obviously its impossible for me know what you know.

TEPaul

Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #210 on: August 06, 2009, 10:03:40 PM »
"TEP
I don't have your inside connections, so obviously its impossible for me know what you know."




Tom

Aha! Well there you are. In that case, since I have studied the course and its history closely for the last few years would you like me to share with you my OPINION on how the original nine apparently differed hole by hole from the so-called Leeds "Long Nine" on which the 1898 US Open was held? Would you say that would be bringing new information forward and furthering the conversation of the architectural history of Myopia?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 10:05:57 PM by TEPaul »

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #211 on: August 06, 2009, 10:47:44 PM »
"TEP
I don't have your inside connections, so obviously its impossible for me know what you know."




Tom

Aha! Well there you are. In that case, since I have studied the course and its history closely for the last few years would you like me to share with you my OPINION on how the original nine apparently differed hole by hole from the so-called Leeds "Long Nine" on which the 1898 US Open was held? Would you say that would be bringing new information forward and furthering the conversation of the architectural history of Myopia?

I for one have no interest in hearing your opinion unless you present facts to back it up.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 10:59:19 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #212 on: August 06, 2009, 11:13:55 PM »
"TEP
I don't have your inside connections, so obviously its impossible for me know what you know."




Tom

Aha! Well there you are. In that case, since I have studied the course and its history closely for the last few years would you like me to share with you my OPINION on how the original nine apparently differed hole by hole from the so-called Leeds "Long Nine" on which the 1898 US Open was held? Would you say that would be bringing new information forward and furthering the conversation of the architectural history of Myopia?

No.

TEPaul

Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #213 on: August 07, 2009, 01:27:14 AM »
Tom:

Thanks for the response anyway. In that case, carry on, babble on, whatever.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #214 on: August 07, 2009, 06:26:55 AM »
Can I ask a question, what kind of course exactly do people think Myopia was back in 1895, irrespective of who designed/built it ? How much of what is there now is in any way original ? I don't know the course at all but I would be willing to lay (as opposed to design !) a fairly large wager that there isn't a single man made feature left of the original course.

Indeed I doubt that the course had many features in the first place as courses back then were fairly rudimentary and were subject to change on fairly frequent basis so I think it entirely possible if not likely that Appleton and co laid out nine holes and days/weeks later Campbell came in and either tweaked what was there or laid out a fresh course over the top of it. Do I have any evidence of that ? No, but then there seems to be precious little evidence being produced so far for anything else.

Niall

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #215 on: August 07, 2009, 08:40:21 AM »
Niall,
This article gives the lengths of the nine holes as they were in 1898:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9F0CE1DD1030E333A25756C0A9609C94699ED7CF
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #216 on: August 07, 2009, 09:09:58 AM »
Niall
Campbell's original nine is more or less still in play today. Some holes have been lengthened, bunkers added, and one or two holes merged but its mostly intact. Based on the speed Campbell built Brookline and Essex County I don't think there was whole lot of construction going on, therefore not a lot of crude features to remove.

Myopia, The Country Club and Essex County were summer clubs servicing summer colonies. The annual meeting in March when they decided to build a golf course was held at the Somerest Club in Boston. They didn't even start heading north until weather began to turn in April or May, and Campbell was firmly established by then.  The man reponsible for bringing Campbell to the States - WB Thomas - was prominent member of Myopia. Campbell arrived March 31 but certainly they must have anticipated his arrival for some time before that.

Why would they have Appleton lay out the course when they had the top man in the country at their disposal, who had just completed new courses for the sister clubs of The Country Club & Essex County?

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #217 on: August 07, 2009, 09:30:02 AM »
I just thought I would throw this modern example of how reliable newspaper reports might be in the mix. 

The reporter apparently has some Jerry Jones and/or big business bias, AND the web site had to correct his facts which went in the article apparently unchecked.  While I don't know for a fact, it would seem that it would be even harder to double check facts in the old days than it is now.  I presume reporter bias is about the same then and now.  I am not sure about journalistic standards in general although a case could be made that the internet currently has far lower standards than the old days of the media. :(.


Update: In the post below, we link to a story from the Lincoln Journal World's Web site that contained a number of inaccuracies.

According to the Cowboys, the 20-inch pizzas at the new stadium will cost $60, not $90 as reported. (That's the same price they were in the suites at Texas Stadium.) There will be five different types of pizza available for that price. Beer will be sold for $5.

The suites themselves will range from $100,000 to $500,000 per year. That lease will include tickets to Cowboys games, but not third-party events.



The colossal new Dallas Cowboys Stadium is living proof that everything is bigger in Texas. The menu in the luxury suites proves that things there are more expensive too.

Those enjoying a Cowboys game from a luxury suite at the new stadium will have to shell out $90 for pizza and $66 for a 12-pack of domestic beer, reports Steven Sipple of the Lincoln Journal World. Ninety bucks for pizza? That's almost as much of a rip-off as Roy Williams. 

It costs $800,000 per year to lease one of those luxury suites, a hefty sum that doesn't include game tickets. On the bright side, the stadium's official Web site says that "having your company's name on a suite makes an important statement about your success" and can help make an impression on clients. (Namely that they're paying you way too much money.)

As for the $90 pizza, that's the cost for a plain pizza. No word on how much each topping costs but, suffice it to say, if you're a fan of pepperoni you may want to consider refinancing your mortgage before you head down to watch the Cowboys.

Thanks, The Sporting Blog


My only point is to say that when you rely on newspaper sources, you should probably not use single pieces as evidence, since they are often proven wrong.  If there are two newspapers reporting the same thing, it is far less likely that they are both making the exact same mistake, although its still possible that they were just taking someone's press release and running with it.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #218 on: August 07, 2009, 09:42:58 AM »
1. There is no Lincoln Journal World
2. Your primary source of information - Cornish & Whitten - would not have been possible without newspaper and magazine accounts
3. Jerry Jones is a douche bag

TEPaul

Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #219 on: August 07, 2009, 09:49:55 AM »
"Can I ask a question, what kind of course exactly do people think Myopia was back in 1895, irrespective of who designed/built it ? How much of what is there now is in any way original ? I don't know the course at all but I would be willing to lay (as opposed to design !) a fairly large wager that there isn't a single man made feature left of the original course."

Niall:

I'd say you'd win your bet hands down. I'd say there are three green sites max (not necessarily the actual greens but the sites) that are left and probably three tee sites. There are basically three holes that are unaccounted for. The original nine apparently only used as hazards high pasture grass as rough and existing stone walls and roads as hazards. The fairways were pasture grass and the greens were sodded and both were mown by penned in sheep. If you'd like I'll go through the holes individually which is a lot more explanatory than saying that original nine is "more or less intact."  ;)



"Indeed I doubt that the course had many features in the first place as courses back then were fairly rudimentary and were subject to change on fairly frequent basis so I think it entirely possible if not likely that Appleton and co laid out nine holes and days/weeks later Campbell came in and either tweaked what was there or laid out a fresh course over the top of it. Do I have any evidence of that ? No, but then there seems to be precious little evidence being produced so far for anything else."


You have that right too. Appleton and two other members paced off and staked nine tees and green sites before Campbell arrived in America. Why did Appleton do it? He was the one who proposed Myopia have a golf course and frankly he was probably the only one in the club who could get that proposal through (interesting story there). Appleton had his own six hole golf course on his estate in Ipswich before Myopia had its first course.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 09:51:33 AM by TEPaul »

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #220 on: August 07, 2009, 10:09:34 AM »
1. There is no Lincoln Journal World
2. Your primary source of information - Cornish & Whitten - would not have been possible without newspaper and magazine accounts
3. Jerry Jones is a douche bag

Tom,

3. Stop talking about my clients that way!  Truthfully, when I did Cowboys, Jerry turned out to be a lot nicer and smarter than portrayed on TV and in the media. I was pleasantly surprised.

2.  Agreed and I have had many discussions with Ron about this (who BTW, is visiting with Geoff C this week on the occaision of Geoff's 95th birthday)  As an example that shouldn't be as controversial as MCC or MHC, he has seen ads from both Langford and Stiles claiming Omaha CC as their designs.  In his mind, he looked at the style of the (then)remaining original greens and declared it a Stiles, while the club itself still maintains its an LM design.  Niether really has much more info backing them up and it remains (to me at least) a mystery.  And, we all know that the book has been revised, and if a publisher could be found, they would revise it again to correct their known mistakes.  If there is a lesson there for these threads, its that finding out the "truth" might take years, and by that I mean years of research, not just endless bickering (of which we are all guilty here)

1.  I agree that there were probably far fewer newspaper hoaxes than current internet hoaxes in those days.  But, that article was posted and naturally caused quite a stir here in DFW.

Of interest to me is whether the rush to meet the evening deadline vs the current rush to put up info on the net would cause greater or lesser pressure to put an article out unchecked?  Its probably all the same - today's world is faster but at the same time, its easier to double check some facts.  In all those old movies, when the reporters call in their stories last minute, they don't ever ask if the story is reported correctly, do they?  Of course, that is the movies, not real life, but it probably happened that way in some cases.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

TEPaul

Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #221 on: August 07, 2009, 10:56:26 AM »
"1.  I agree that there were probably far fewer newspaper hoaxes than current internet hoaxes"


Mr. Jeffrery, Sir:


That just might be the all time Golfclubatlas.com DG understatment! That's been one of my main concerns with this Merion revisionism. It's not just GCA, it's Google and other search engines like it. Information goes on those search engines within minutes of getting on the Internet and seemingly it never leaves those search engines. Therefore the danger of historical revisionism and historical hoaxes getting widely disseminated is so much greater today than it's ever been. There will be many more people duped in the future than in the past due to this new modern age massively increased information dissemination.

Mr. Jeffery, Sir, I propose you and I test out this phenomenon by floating some really good historical golf architecture rumor and watch it fly all over the world and dupe massive amounts of people.

Here's my suggestion:

It was H.H. Barker who in Dec 1910 during a train trip from New York to Atlanta Georgia put the idea of and the routing and design plan for ANGC in eight year old Bobby Jones' mind, and therefore H.H. Barker should be credited with the design of ANGC and the Masters tournament and not Mackenzie/Jones/Roberts et al. Or at the very least Barker should be credited with being the "driving force" behind the design of ANGC, at least unless we can determine if Willie Campbell ever took a train from Boston to Georgia in which case the history of ANGC and the Masters may need to be completely rewritten and attributed to him.

Wait a minute---the "timeline" says Campbell died at least two years before Bobby was born!! Oh well, what does that matter? Maybe Willie happened to meet Bobby's mother on a street corner in Atlanta and spoke to her about it and did a routing and design plan for the course for her a few years before she even thought of having Bobby. Can you think of any good reason why that shouldn't be considered "very likely?"

On another point, I think we need a 32 page thread on here to determine if Jerry Jones is a douche bag or not! Are you sure his name is Jerry and not Jimmy? I don't think I'm willing to take your word on that---I need PROOF! No, belay that, I don't just need proof, I DEMAND proof---ie VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE!! Can you show me his birth certificate or at least his name on a ship passenger manifest?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 11:08:25 AM by TEPaul »

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #222 on: August 07, 2009, 11:14:22 AM »
1. There is no Lincoln Journal World
2. Your primary source of information - Cornish & Whitten - would not have been possible without newspaper and magazine accounts
3. Jerry Jones is a douche bag

Tom,

3. Stop talking about my clients that way!  Truthfully, when I did Cowboys, Jerry turned out to be a lot nicer and smarter than portrayed on TV and in the media. I was pleasantly surprised.

2.  Agreed and I have had many discussions with Ron about this (who BTW, is visiting with Geoff C this week on the occaision of Geoff's 95th birthday)  As an example that shouldn't be as controversial as MCC or MHC, he has seen ads from both Langford and Stiles claiming Omaha CC as their designs.  In his mind, he looked at the style of the (then)remaining original greens and declared it a Stiles, while the club itself still maintains its an LM design.  Niether really has much more info backing them up and it remains (to me at least) a mystery.  And, we all know that the book has been revised, and if a publisher could be found, they would revise it again to correct their known mistakes.  If there is a lesson there for these threads, its that finding out the "truth" might take years, and by that I mean years of research, not just endless bickering (of which we are all guilty here)

1.  I agree that there were probably far fewer newspaper hoaxes than current internet hoaxes in those days.  But, that article was posted and naturally caused quite a stir here in DFW.

Of interest to me is whether the rush to meet the evening deadline vs the current rush to put up info on the net would cause greater or lesser pressure to put an article out unchecked?  Its probably all the same - today's world is faster but at the same time, its easier to double check some facts.  In all those old movies, when the reporters call in their stories last minute, they don't ever ask if the story is reported correctly, do they?  Of course, that is the movies, not real life, but it probably happened that way in some cases.

My bad, I'm sure Jerry is a very good guy. Some of his decisions of late haven't been so good, present company excluded.

I think you are right, the key is getting as many different sources as possible. I think having three contemporaneous and separate sources for Campbell is pretty solid, especialy when you consider it is 1894.

TEPaul

Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #223 on: August 07, 2009, 11:28:45 AM »
"I think having three contemporaneous and separate sources for Campbell is pretty solid,"



I agree completely. I think having three contemporaneous newspaper article sources for Campbell is pretty solid. But don't forget, you'll also need to completely ignore or totally dismiss what the subject itself-----Myopia Hunt Club, had to say about it. Or else you could just go with the sometimes accepted theory on here that if you don't have access to what Myopia Hunt Club had to say about it whatever they had to say about it really couldn't have existed!  ;)

There's even a third accepted theory----if someone tells you what Myopia Hunt Club itself had to say about it at the time and it doesn't attribute the original nine to Willie Campbell, you simply contend all those people running Myopia at the time were all mistaken or lying to one another or what they recorded makes no sense at all, or they were all living in some fantasy land.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 11:38:29 AM by TEPaul »

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Willie Campbell & Myopia
« Reply #224 on: August 07, 2009, 11:54:51 AM »
Jeff,

I find your attempts to cast doubt on the newspaper articles strange.   Even if the article you site is real, the reporter has an obvious bias.   You state that you assume reporter bias has always been around, but what bias could the different reporters possible have about Campell's role?   In my experience working with these types of reports on tournaments and courses generally, the information for this stuff usually comes straight from the club itself.   Let me guess, Myopia was misrepresenting what happened as well?

More importantly, there is no conflict here.   One the one hand we have three reports that Campbell designed the course.   On the other hand, from Myopia, we have NOTHING to the contrary.    NOTHING AT ALL. 

Jeff, what specifically do the Myopia minutes say that contradicts the reports in any way?
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)