Willie Campbell & Myopia

[Peter Pallotta]

Mike - Since that last post and this is one sums up all I know about Myopia, I'll just leave this with something I remember appearing on another thread a while back, from a 1933 article by A. Linde Fowler. I understand that a lot of the 'story' about the course's origins could've changed between 1894 and 1933, but I found this interesting nonetheless:

"The Greater Boston District has another club [i.e. along with Brookline], the Myopia Hunt of Hamilton, Mass., which played a major part in the early history of the sport in this country, venue of four National Open Championships between the years 1898 and 1908 and a golf course which, with undoubtedly fewer major alterations in more than thirty years of any first class course in the land, still measures up with the leaders, because its "father", the late Herbert Leeds, was years ahead of his time in the art of laying out golf holes of character.

It was pure innate love of the game, as an amateur, that sent him abroad to study the most famous holes of the renowned British courses to help mould his ideas of what he wanted at Myopia. And the club was wise enough to give him a free hand in the pursuit of those ideas. He held a place as an amateur golf course architect comparable to that enjoyed in later days by C. B. Macdonald, builder of the National Links at Southampton, L. I. In the early years of golf in this country, visitors by the scores visited Myopia to get advice and ideas for their own clubs."

At the heart of this is the old question - were men like Campbell 'written out' of later histories (for many reasons, including not being around to encourage anyone to advocate on their behalfs), or did writers/observers (some, the early ones at least, who might have known Campbell and Leeds) have reason to decide that what Leeds did was to be considered THE 'architecture' at Myopia and what Campbell had done not?

Big question.

Peter

[DMoriarty]

Mike,

You really don't understand my reaction?   You diminish and belittle the man's qualifications and even have the nerve to compare his qualifications to your own.  You don't know anything about his work, yet you put it down anyway.  And this was your attempt to dismiss my point, which was that there is no way that anyone at Myopia was any position to mentor or supervise or instruct Willie Campbell when it came to anything golf, whether it was golfing or laying out golf courses.   And any representation that it was members who originally laid out the course is reportedly incorrect. 

Was his work good? I think we have to look at it in the context of the time, and in the context of the time he apparently had a hand in the creation of some pretty well-respected courses, including Myopia.  And after talking up Myopia for so long as the first quality American course, then I don't understand now that you find out that it was originally done by WC, it suddenly made the soul of golf shriek?  For you to dismiss his work and the work of others is to ignore the context of the time. 

____________________________________________________________


Patrick.   I think that is a good question.  If the article is accurate (and it seems pretty detailed and written by someone who knew what was going on there) then credit must have gone elsewhere.   The question I have are why?  And how common was this?

I've never understood how these early pros all claimed to have designed so many courses, yet many of the courses we here about from that era claim to have been designed by a member.   I think the easy assumption has always been that the professionals exaggerated, but it also seems like these clubs were much more likely to recognize the accomplishments of their own other than these professionals. 

There could be a number of reasons for this other than just some sort of elitism.   For one thing, the professionals were often involved with these courses for a very brief period of time, while the key members may have nurtured the courses for years, so from the perspective of the rest of the membership, it probably looked as if the member or key members was responsible.  Once the professional was gone, it was the key member's course.

[Mike_Cirba]

David,

I wasn't diminishing the abilities or sadly short career of Willie Campbell.

I was questioning your statement that simply because "he was familiar with the courses of Scotland" that his viewing of them somehow translated into architectural abilities.

I also think that if we sit here today and assume that just because these early pros came abroad from Great Britain that they were somehow naturally endowed with more design talent than the average punter, we are doing the exact same thing the early clubs did, which is an unrealistic expectation of these early pros.   The historical record largely shows their courses to be lackluster, at best, although given a day or two of expectation and pay for the work, that's hardly surprising.

I saw the great courses of Scotland too, even studied them, but I couldn't design my way out of a paper bag.  

Although, I did do a pretty good two-hour paper routing of the Johnson Farm so perhaps I'm not completely hopeless in that regard.  

[DMoriarty]

Back pedal all you like Mike.  Your posts are still there. 

[Melvyn Morrow]

I sit here and am amazed at times at the statements we make about the early designers. Are we that shallow and so full of ourselves or is it that we are dismissive of the efforts of earlier generations because of our real ignorance of their lives? Their courses, or as some seem to describe them as lacklustre were subject to various conditions, yet they would have been the state of the art of golf course design at that time in its development. The quality of the courses I would suggest are reflected by the rapid expansion of the game in North America, not to mention the immigration of able bodied designers/professional golfers from Scotland to the States in particular.

In 1894, golf was exported by Scotsmen travelling the world, many going to and settling in America. Names like D Ross, The Foulis Brothers, Willie Campbell, the list is nearly endless.

Willie Campbell was a golf course designer, he designed quality courses, perhaps not what some seek today, but then Ladies & Gentlemen we are looking back 100 years plus and as is the want on his site, and they are being compared with the money & technology we have today. A trap we never seem to remember not to keep falling in to, we are judging without the understanding or for that matter the facts.

Lacklustre courses were mentioned as perhaps standard of that period, but by what standard, those later designers that followed, the so called Golden Age guys or by our own generation. Those who know our islands may well have played on a Willie Campbell’s course or two. There is Machrie on Islay to name but one, lacklustre would not be my description for that course built in 1891.

The history of Man is riddled with later generations dismissing the efforts or abilities of their predecessors or those much earlier. Examples the super ships of antiquity i.e. the Chinese and Roman (two large ship the Germans burnt when leaving Italy in WW2), then the Byzantium “Greek Fire” and effective flamethrower from the 7th century, again the list goes on. Our forefathers were just as intelligent as we are today and were the stepping-stones to what we have today. Only a fool would dismiss the part they played in allowing our generation to achieve what we have. Without their input, we would certainly be the poorer in my humble opinion.

Melvyn

[Jim Nugent]

"It was pure innate love of the game, as an amateur, that sent him (Leeds) abroad to study the most famous holes of the renowned British courses to help mould his ideas of what he wanted at Myopia. And the club was wise enough to give him a free hand in the pursuit of those ideas."

Almost the exact same back story told about Leeds at Myopia, as Wilson at Merion. 

[Paul_Turner]

I guess the question is how close is Myopia now, to the course Campbell laid out?   Machrie and Seascale are links and wouldn't have involved much construction work.  

But how about an inland course like Myopia in 1894?  Was it all "steeplechase" hazards and fairly crude or was it a real breakthrough?  Even the British inland courses were all pretty unsophisticated that early on.

[Tom MacWood]

Paul
He laid out the first nine, and those holes are mostly intact in the current 18. I don't believe there was much structural work at Myopia besides preparing the greens. As far as the hazards are concerned the article above states: "The links are new and rough as yet, but have capital natural features, and in time will be as good as any hereabouts." I'm not aware of any Campbell's course here or in Scotland that utilized the Tom Dunn formula. I know he did utilize some cross hazards, which were very popular at the time, but not in the formulaic Dunn manner.

I would not term it a breakthrough architecturally from an international perspective, but rather a breakthrough in America. Campbell brought golf in and around Boston up to the inland standard abroad. And as I discovered when I was researching the early architects there were several good inland courses built in the UK in the 1890s, they were more exceptions than the rule, because there was still a lot of crap, however the first incarnations Woking, New Zealand, Ganton and Worlington date back to the 1890s, and you can add Myopia and Brookline to that list. What year was Painswick built?

Here is a link to that early architects essay. Unfortunately it got mangled on the transfer from old website format but I think one can still trudge through it.

http://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/in-my-opinion-the-early-architects-beyond-old-tom-by-tom-macwood

[Tom MacWood]

Here is another article that speaks to the course relative quality nationally.

[Tom MacWood]

"It was pure innate love of the game, as an amateur, that sent him (Leeds) abroad to study the most famous holes of the renowned British courses to help mould his ideas of what he wanted at Myopia. And the club was wise enough to give him a free hand in the pursuit of those ideas."

Almost the exact same back story told about Leeds at Myopia, as Wilson at Merion.  

There are some similarities, but there are also some major differences. The state of golf and golf architecture was quite different in the 1890s than it was in 1911. Leeds was a nationally ranked golfer, who competed on a national level. By the way Campbell was Leeds mentor, and when Campbell moved to Myopia Leeds made the move from Brookline too (or the other way around). Leeds was involved in laying out two courses prior to designing Myopia full 18 - Kebo Valley and Palmetto. And Leeds made several trips abroad to study modern architectural developments, not just one.

Here is another early article from the Boston Daily Advertiser (May 18, 1894) which gives some perspective about early golf in Boston. This article is about The Country Club - Campbell was the pro and Leeds was a member.

[Jim_Kennedy]

How much of an impact will this info have on the history of Myopia? Seems like no one knew about these articles until now, or didn't want to know.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

These are great articles, thanks for sharing them...

However, the devil on my other shoulder is poking me asking, "if Campbell laid out the first nine holes at Myopia, who planned and routed the course?"  Couldn't someone make the argument that as the hired help, Campbell was strictly doing construction to someone else's plans?  

No answer is necessary...I'm kidding, but also showing how absurd, pointless, and unproductive that whole line of thought is!  

[Tom MacWood]

Here is an old picture of the quirky links at Machrie. From what I understand this course is still hell of a lot of fun. Please forgive the quality of the picture. I've also included a link to Machrie's website.

http://www.machrie.com/machrie-golf-links.html

[Tom MacWood]

Jim
That is a good question. This info doesn't change Leeds' impact - their history never had him involved in laying out the original nine. Personally I believe it enhances the course's history having Campbell laying out the original nine as opposed to the master of hounds, the current story. IMO Campbell should hold a larger position in the early history of American golf architecture - I think that may be the bigger impact.

[Niall C]

Mike,
I'll take your word on the passenger list, that date sounds familiar.

To the first half of my question: I think that there was some disbelief that WC had anything to do with building MHC. This article at least seems to challenge that belief.
 
It really seems to me that in this time period (and possibly at times in ours) the builders of golf courses and clubhouses all had a mentor, or mentors, at the club. Perhaps it was some sort of validation of the plan, i.e. if a member was linked with the 'designer' then all was well, and everyone could believe that the best interests of the club were being served

In this case it's not far-fetched to think that WC built the course and his mentors were the members who have been mentioned in other threads. 

Given that WC was one of the top golfers in the world and familiar with the courses in scotland while they were novices in comparison don't you think it would be the other way around?

Or do you mean that it was important for the club to have a club representative or figurehead even if they had little or nothing to contribute to the substance of the project?

Possibly a better idea to think of them as sponsors rather than mentors.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Willie Campbell was a good golfer and designer, Machrie as I have already mentioned. However as you are seeking an inland course, look a few years earlier in 1889 when he designed an 11 hole course for Monmouthshire G C Abergavenny (www.monmouthshiregolfclub.co.uk/ ) He was good at what he did but passing away at an early age in 1900, just think what he might have done?

Mike, did Willie just construct the course or would, following his ability and record have designed the completed course? Was there not something about hime only staying about a year before moving on? Not up on the American clubs, sorry.

Melvyn

[Joe Bausch]

I believe Cornish and Whitten's book says nine holes at Torresdale-Frankford CC (1895) were done by Willie Campbell.  Fact or fiction?

[Phil_the_Author]

One aspect as to WHY so many Scottish professionals found employment in the U.S. which has been completely overlooked is that in order for the game to grow in America there was one absolute that was needed... GOLF CLUBS! Many, if not most, of the Scottish professionals who were hired were done so as much for their club-making abilities as playing abilities.

Golf clubs were hand made back then and so craftsmanship definitely affected how well one could play... In some cases, and I believe probably more times than we are generally aware, it was the club-making ability that got one hired and kept one employed by golf clubs...

Joe, I vaguely remember seeing that somewhere else, possibly anewspaper article as i was researching tilly's early years in Frankford. I'll see if I can find anything...

[Melvyn Morrow]

Machrie Site say about Willie

Courses by Willie Campbell:
 Massachusetts: Oakley CC (9 1898, NLE); Tatnuck CC (9 1899, NLE); [The Country Club (9 1893,A.3 1895).New Hampshire: Beaver Meadow GC (9 1897)Pennsylvania: Torresdale -Frankford CC (9 1895)Rhode Island: Wannamoisett CC (9 1899, NLE)England: Seascale OC (9 1892)
Scotland: Machrie Hotel GC (9 1891)**
 Courses remodelled or expanded by Willie Campbell***Massachusetts: William F. Devine GC [FNA Franklin Park GC] (R.1900)
The above information from Geoffrey S Cornish and Ronald E. Whitten, The Architects of Golf: A Survey of Golf Course Design from Its Beginnings to the Present, With an Encyclopaedic Listing of Golf Architects Harper Collins 2nd Edition, 1993.
 
Campbell is also credited with designing Cowal Golf Club ( www.cowalgolfclub.co.uk )

What Musselburgh say
Willie Campbell
Willie Campbell, a former caddie for Bob Ferguson was born in Musselburgh in 1862 and worked with Old Tom Morris at Prestwick before becoming professional and club maker at Ranfurly Club, Bridge of Weir. A tall strapping fellow he was not a sensational driver yet long and straight off the tee but it was with the mashie that he was famed, using it for every kind of shot, sometimes putting with it. Match play rather than stroke was Campbell's forte winning many money matches. In 1886, he defeated Willie Park twice over Musselburgh and North Berwick, beat the champion David Brown and had victories over Bob Martin and Willie Fernie.
In 1889, Campbell took part in a four round challenge match against Archie Simpson over Carnoustie, St Andrews, Musselburgh and Prestwick. The first played on 12th April which was the opening day over Archie's home course at Carnoustie. Campbell won all four matches but it was the huge crowd at Musselburgh which stole the headlines with the players driving down an avenue of spectators ten to twelve deep including top-hatted Edinburgh gentlemen shoulder to shoulder with grimy miners who had climbed from the bowels of the earth to watch the match.
John Reid who is credited as being the ' Father of American Golf ' was born in Dunfermline in 1840, and learned to play the game over Musselburgh Links.
Campbell suffered from a rheumatic condition and emigrated to the United States in 1894 where he became the first professional at Brookline Country Club in Boston. Campbell extended the course from six to nine holes which included a replica of the 'Redan' hole on the West Links, North Berwick. In 1896 he was appointed to Myopia Country Club and the following year moved to the first public links course at Franklin Park, working from a shop in Dorchester. His wife Georgina also born in Musselburgh was the first lady professional in the United States. Campbell never enjoyed good health and died in Boston in 1901 at the age of 38 and is buried at Forest Hills.

Melvyn

[DMoriarty]

Melvyn,

Thanks for that information.   I think it is a rather incomplete listing as American courses go.

______________________

Niall,

I couldn't come up with the right word and "sponsor" works better than what I came up with.  Thanks.

________________________


Mike,

As to your snarky post above, as I have explained dozens of times, as I understand it the verb "to lay out" (or to "lay off" or "to lay down" or "to mark off" or to "stake out")  in the context of creating golf course meant arranging the golf course on the ground.    Generally (but not always) these early designers planned the course on the ground (as opposed to on a contour map or on a piece of paper) and marked out the course on the ground.  Generally, very little construction was involved.  They were simply marking off (laying off, laying out, staking out, etc.) a course.

The confusion came when designers started planning on a map, and when more significant construction was needed to complete the course.   In these cases, sometimes the person who planned the course was not the same as the person who laid it out.   I've pointed out numerous examples of this, where the person who "laid out" the course was different that the person who planned it.

In this case, I am not familiar with exactly how Campbell worked, but if he is said to have "laid out" a course, my assumption would be that he arranged the course on the ground.

But Mike,  why would you choose to sully yet another thread with this nonsense?   Your repeated disingenuous caricatures of my understanding of the phrase "to lay out" show that you are incapable of dealing with the source material reasonably, and that you will pretty much twist anything to make your point.   You need to start dealing with the material openly and honestly.  Otherwise, at least try to constrain your nonsense to the Merion threads.  

[Mike_Cirba]

David,

It sucks to be proven wrong.  I understand.

[DMoriarty]

. . . Please forgive the quality of the picture. . .

Tom, Perhaps you should consider a camera with a better lens, or at least one with a few more pixels?

David,

It sucks to be proven wrong.  I understand.

Does it?  You should know Mike.  But again your snarky nonsense fails to advance the discussion.

[Mike_Cirba]

Fwiw, Willie Campbell did not design Torresdale-Frankford.

It wasn't even a consolidated club until the teens.

WC, the pro in Philly at the time may have done an early course for either the Torresdale or the Frankford club.but nothing on the present site.

Are we certain that WC never came to work in Philly?

[DMoriarty]

I don't know Mike.  I'd hate to comment for fear of being accused on stepping on Philadelphia's toes.   What do the resident Philadelphia Experts say about it?

[Joe Bausch]

Fwiw, WC did not desifn Torresdale-Frankford.

It wasn't even a consolidated club until the teens.

WC, the pro in Philly at the time may have done an eaerly course for either the Torresdale or the Frankford club.but nothing on the present site.

Are we certain that WC never came to work in Philly?

You are right Mike, it was probably the Torresdale course.  Finegan's book says a Scottish pro by the name of James Campbell did it.  I wonder if somehow he got the first name incorrect?