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DNGoldie

Square Tees
« on: May 09, 2002, 02:15:40 AM »
I am just about to be involved in a project using square tee tops.  Anyone have any construction tips?  What do you think of them?
I think even though they are used in the most natural golfing country in the world..Scotland, the sharp corners and little scope for imagination dont gel extremely well in a environment where most things curve and flow.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Square Tees
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2002, 04:22:56 AM »
DNGoldie:

It's a good question you ask--one that's come up on here before.

It's true that square tees (or squared off tee tops as you describe them) don't blend in well with the overall curving and natural lines of sites or even the architecture that might otherwise blend into those natural lines or attempt to.

One would certainly wonder why that would be when most architects might attempt to blend the remainder of their architecture with natural lines.

To even begin to answer that question tees should probably be looked at closely as to their evolution in golf as well as how they were perceived by architects who were the most sensitive to blending everything possible to the natural lines of sites.

Even those "Golden Age" architect's who dreamed that someday modern technology would allow architects to almost completely hide their hand from what was natural admited and conceded that in the case of greens, fairways and tees that might never be completely possible, The obvious reasons are those three things were simply the primary necessities of golf that just never could be compeletly natural looking or seem completely natural in a otherwise natural setting!

Ironically those particular "nature inspired" architects added a fourth golf architectural feature to that list of greens, fairways and tees that although they conceded was not particularly fundamental to golf had become an apparently fundamental feature--bunkering!

Why bunkering became almost fundamental to golf and remained part of golf architecture in areas where bunkering was clearly not natural  is a very interesting evoltution itself that probably indicates the original allure and primacy of the original linksland and the original linksland courses where natural bunkering was central to the game!

Architects have tried their best in many cases to design greens, fairway and bunkering that somehow blends with the natural lines of any site but tees seem to have escaped that tendency to try to "blend" with nature for some reason.

Why that is has to be difficult to answer conclusively if at all. It may be that golfers have insisted on a very defined and identifiable starting point that may line them up at their target in a general sense. Apparently tee blocks on otherwise unaligned tees do not do a good enough job of that!

And then it's quite interesting to note that the separated tee feature is quite a late entry into the evolution of golf and also architecture. There was a time even following the orginal rules of the game that a rule of procedure was to tee off within one and then two club lengths of the preceding hole!! Think about that!! That's amazing to consider today and would seem almost ridiculous! How easy would it be to sink a six foot putt with those conditions and rules?? That simply indicates how rough the playing conditions of golf once were!

But every single kind and type and look of tee has been tried architecturally. Some were unbelievably shocking looking during the crude "geometric" era that looked something like funeral pyres with periscopes and such! RTJ created the super long but very defined "landing strip" tees and others like Muirhead tried every shape and form of "freeform" tees, possibly to try to blend them with the lines of nature or possibly for other reasons such as a variety of golf angles to play.

It seems even in otherwise "natural looking" architecture today the square tee box is making a return! But square in what architectural sense is probably a better question for you to ask and have answered. In many cases the actual architectural construction builds up the tee box to be very identifiable and also square. In other cases the constructed architecture is not so identifiably square but the mowing patterns are.

As to why tees may need to be built up (or even square) for reasons of construction and drainage and such others on here could answer that far better than I could.

But there is a new tee look coming out now that might be a return to some of the styles of the past. That's one that blends or melds the tees into natural grades as to be almost unidentifiable (at least archtitecturally). Some like GCGC's tees are built right on grade. There are some others like #7 Friar's Head and possibly #14 Applebrook that are almost completely unidentifiable architecturally and also in mowing patterns. In fact these ones blend completely into the overall surrounds and all that can be identified as tees are the tee markers themselves.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Square Tees
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2002, 04:50:30 AM »
Aren't square tees the result of the actual tees markers creating an imaginary rectangular? Because of that, tees became rectangular, as you say they were part of the design of the most natural golf courses here and abroad.

I don't agree with your view that they are necessarily artificial, look at the profile on Prarie Dunes - they can be blended. In many cases because they limit the alteration of the environment. Those free flowing curves and circular tees of the 70's and 80's remind of the artifical curves and freeflowing tees one sees on many modern overgraded fairways and other features. They might be an expression of the architects creativity, but they don't gel well with their environment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Square Tees
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2002, 05:20:51 AM »
At Beverly, all of our original Ross tees were squared.  In
fact, many of the greens appear to be squared as well.

In our Master Plan, Ron Prichard will return those tees to
their original square shape.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

TEPaul

Re: Square Tees
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2002, 05:22:27 AM »
Tom MacW:

I really didn't say I thought square or rectangular tees were artifical. What I said was tees were considered by some of the "golden Age" architects and writers as an architectural element of golf (a necessary feature) that probably never could be made to blend into any natural site completely, at least not in their time.

That sentiment is clear in the writing of particularly Max Behr and a few of the others. It was their hope that somehow improved technology (improved construction methods) would allow those that followed them to blend all of golf architecture into nature far better than even they were able to do.

Mackenzie may have been the best at it and Cypress may have been the best example of his. But they were hoping it could be taken even farther somehow in the future.

How they imagined that would be is one of the fascinations of architecture to me, particularly since when the twain appeared to break or separate (the depression and WW2) things went in another direction!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Square Tees
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2002, 05:52:19 AM »
shivas:

So I take it that you are not a big fan of the Robert Trent
Jones "runway" tees?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Robert "Cliff" Stanfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Square Tees
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2002, 05:58:30 AM »
Shiavas...totally agree

Funny you mention being bad and chunking the tees with driver or 3 wood.  I have noticed that in Scotland many clubs have common knowledge that practice swings are for the driving range and fwy...not for the turf on the tee box next to your ball!  The exception is that many of the courses that have "Tourista" droves bused to them have to place signs at the first tee reminding the non-concerned, deep pocket, small brain, idiots...that continue to dictate the direction of design when the it might be good to have a few classes like you have to have to get a hunting permit....golfer safety classes and enviornment awareness!  Sorry have skipped coffee this morning.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Square Tees
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2002, 06:19:04 AM »
May I suggest you pull up the Barona photos thread and see how the straight lines are a welcome visual to the meandering wavy lines of the rest of the topography.

I would recommend that what ever you do, first, ask the Super what he'd prefer. And don't place the tees directly behind one another. As stated in Dsemond Muirhead's rules, I believe that this monotony of look, limits the variety that makes so many places special.

How about rounded tee areas with straight( or boxed) mow lines to define the teeing ground.?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Square Tees
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2002, 06:19:49 AM »
"The architect must recognize that the tee is an intrusion into nature and minimize the level of intrusion."  
Shivas

That about sums up as well as could be what I perceive to be the feeling of some of the best of the "naturalist" architects of the "Golden Age" period and what their hopes were for what they perceived as the unnatural but necessary features of golf (greens, fairways, tees and on some sites bunkering)!

The before mentioned tees on a few holes at Friar's Head, Applebrook and a few others should be seen as they might go as far in doing what Shivas mentioned (and what may have been the hope of those architects) as possible!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

redanman

Re: Square Tees
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2002, 06:22:09 AM »
Small rounded tees are the worst of all worlds.  The squaring allows for the proper observance of the rules at tee off as TMac suggested.

This is one retro feature all should welcome.  Personally I have always liked them when a "meld" doesn't work.

Taking that all into consideration.........Ideally the course shold be all cut at fairway height and be firm and screaming FAST! (My golf heaven, anyway)  ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Square Tees
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2002, 06:55:03 AM »
redanman;

What do you mean when you say; "you like them when a "meld" doesn't work"?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

redanman

Re: Square Tees
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2002, 07:07:28 AM »
Tom (also check your IM box)

What I mean is that I like the meld concept even taken to extremes, but if the teebox must be an "orphan". let it be a square-cornered orphan!

Overly simple, I suppose.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Square Tees
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2002, 07:07:38 AM »

Quote
I am just about to be involved in a project using square tee tops.  Anyone have any construction tips?  What do you think of them?

When building the tees, be sure to have a level area at the same grade around the actual tee surface. Extremely important if they are elevated. This will enable mowers and other equipment to turn, and give you an area for the placement of tee accessories.

Personally, I like squared tees.
They add a air of formality. That said, I wouldn't object to those teeing areas which meld into the walkoffs of previous greens, which has been talked about in previous threads. (as long as traffic and wear patterns are carefully considered) I do not care for tee aomebas or tee footballs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"chief sherpa"

Art_Schaupeter

Re: Square Tees
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2002, 01:36:23 PM »
Here's another vote for square tees, with corners if they will be walk-mowed or slightly rounded if riding mowers will be used.  As mentioned by someone else, I also like the simple formality they provide.  I try to keep the tee boxes as low profile as possible, just enough elevation to keep drainage off the surface with long soft slopes that tie into the adjacent grades and provide easy access.  I don't want the tees calling attention to themselves visually.  They are a starting point, and if located properly as part of the routing concept, they should help to set up of the hole visually without the requirement of excess grading.  With square tees it is also important to ensure that they are properly aligned down the center of the hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »