short survey.

[James Edwards]

Name, Handicap and Home Club.

Describe,

1.  Whats the toughest hole on your home course? why?
2.  Whats the easiest? why?

Also,

3.  What is your toughest personal scenario off the tee?
i.e  Water down the right, wind off the left etc etc narrow fairway?

and finally,

4.  Whats the toughest shot in golf for you to execute?

I'll explain later, you'll be interested.

[Chris_Clouser]

I don't really have a home course, but I'll use the one I'm playing this weekend.

1) The 18th is an uphill par 5 with a 90 degree dogleg at 200 yards with 80 foot trees all along the right side with no chance to hit over them.  So you have to hit it 200 off the tee or you go OOB.  Then the approach is 290 uphill with elevation change of roughly 40 feet and you can't see the green from the fairway until you get there because of a slight ridge right in front of the green.  A horrible hole.

2) 3rd is a short par 4.  The yardage and the flat terrain makes it a fairly easy hole.  But I always walk away with a 5 it seems because I screw up my pitch shot everytime.

3) Long par 3s between 200 and 220 yards.  I don't hit long irons as far as I'd like and I hit woods too far off the tee.  It just hits me in between clubs.  Other than that forced carries of over 200 just bug me because they are bad for the regular joe sixpack that plays only twice a month.

4) A controlled draw with the driver has been non-existent since I had to ditch my persimmon driver.  Haven't been able to hit one since.

[James Edwards]

Chris sorry to be perdantic (?)
Whats the course name and whats your handicap?

It's important for the results.

Also is the 3rd the easiest hole then?

[Chris_Clouser]

It is Stoney Creek Golf Course.

I'm roughly a 15.

It's the easiest according to the handicap index.  As the 18th is the toughest on the handicap indes.  

The easiest for me is 185 yard par three 9th.  I've played it 10 times at least and I've never had worse than par on it.  It is just a nice 3 iron for me from the tee.  With a little wind I pull the 4 and it lands on the green every time.  Now watch me go and pull a double this weekend on it.  It's a pretty hole with a pond short of the green, but ample room out to the left for those who want to play short or can't make it all the way to the green.

[Raymond]

Ray, Columbia Edgewater (Portland, Or.), 7.1

#16 437 par 4 into the wind

It is very difficult for me to reach the green in two. With our soft fairways it's usually 200-240 into the green. I believe the last time they rated the course the average of all handicaps was close to 5.

#17 short par 3 (137 yds.) with water right. Easiest green to hit but there are putting challenges.

Forced carries or doglegs that require length to reach the appropriate length for the approach shot. (As you can now see I'm distance challenged).

The 30-60 yard bunker shot

[James Edwards]

Chris, Ray
good stuff thankyou.

The results once I get 100 (hopefully) will build a clear picture.

[Tim Taylor]

Tim Taylor, USGA Index 13.8, Loudoun Golf and Country Club, Purcellville, VA (www.loudoungcc.com) 6583/6285 yards.

Toughest hole: Hmm. #18, 169/152 yard par 3. All carry to a smallish green cut into the side of a hill. Anything short leaves a pitch to an elevated green. Anything right leaves a pitch or flop to a green 20' up the slope. Anything left has tree trouble and leaves a delicate down hill pitch. Hole usually plays into the wind. This is the #13 handicap hole according to the card.

Easiest hole: #5, 147/139 par 3. Slightly up hill to large green. Bunkers short/left and right. This is the #18 handicap hole on the card.

Toughest personal scenario off the tee: Long iron, all carry to a par 3.

Toughest shot to execute: fairway bunker with long iron

TimT

[Scott_Burroughs]

I have a guess at where you're going with this, higher handicappers fade more, and vice versa, which types of shots are scarier compared to handicap, etc.  Close?


Regardless,

current index, 7.5 or something and climbing now that I suck, highest point in years, had been 4-6 range last several years.  Wake Forest GC, NC

toughest hole is opener, 711 yard par 5 from tips.  Just plain long (can't afford anymisses) and has forced layup in front of creek, essentially lenghtening the hole even more.  Also has one of toughest and worst-conditioned greens on course with two tiers and no level putts.

Easiest is either short par 4 7th at 327 yards and dead flat with green that isn't terribly difficult or par 5 16th at 525 yards, the shortest on course and easiest to birdie, though green is mildly tough.

Toughest personal scenario off tee is long par 3 with no runup possibilities, as I hit a low ball and don't carry a 5 wood, or just any required fade.

Toughest shot to execute is controlled fade or long explosion bunker shot 40-70 yards (like most, that's a toughie).  Unlike Tim above, long bunker shots 100 yards or more are usually not a problem.

Now that I think about it, a bunker shot from the extremely fine and fluffy sand is the absolute toughest shot in golf hands down, luckily that infernal stuff is few and far between.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom Doak, handicap approx. 10, Crystal Downs C.C.

1)  The toughest hole for me is #13, a long par 4 with trees down the right and a VERY severe reverse-tier green.  It's a very tough target for a long-iron or wood second shot, and it's easy to take three or four more once you get close to the green.

2)  The easiest hole at Crystal Downs to me is #7 a short par four.  The tee shot is a lay-up with a 3-iron to the top of a plateau, then over the valley with a short iron to a boomerang punchbowl green.  It's the least severe green on a course full of them, and if you miss the tee shot a bit you still won't have too long of a club to get home.

3)  Toughest tee shot:  a tree-lined fairway on any hole where you really need to hit driver, especially into a headwind.

4)  Toughest shot in golf:  right now it's the half-wedge shot.

[James Edwards]

Scott,

Not a bad guess, thankyou, but not right.

I'll e-mail everyone personally once I get enough answers.  I've been compiling data for some time now with all varieties of handicap.

[Doug Wright]

Doug Wright, Denver CC, GHIN 5.4

1. Toughest hole on my home course for me is the par 3 17th, 195-200 yards, slightly uphill to a well bunkered green. Usually plays into the wind and a long iron this late in the round is no bargain.

2. Easiest hole is the par 5 10th, about 490 yards, well bunkered around the green but reachable.

3. Toughest personal scenario off the tee for me is trees tight on the left side during the first 100 yards or so  or a strong L-R wind because I ususally fade the ball and need some room to get it working.

4. Toughest shot? Depends on the week    This week I'd say the sand wedge pitch over a bunker, especially from hard ground, which is pretty common in these parts these days...

All The Best,  

[Dan Grossman]

Dan
Pasatiempo (don't have a home course, but I've played Pasa the most)
Handicap: 5

Hardest Hole - #11
Uphill par four with a barranca cutting across the fairway from left to right
It is a tough drive - to have an easy second shot you have to hit a solid drive to a fairly small landing area with the barranca threatening on the left.  The second shot is severely uphill with the barranca threatening on the right.  I have a hard time on the drive and then tend to fan a long iron into the barranca on the right.  

Easiest Hole - #15
Short par 3 (9 iron or so).  The green is fairly large and less severe than many on the course.

Toughest Personal Scenario off the Tee - Strong wind from left to right - I tend to hit it right to right with that wind.

Toughest Shot - Long lag putt on fast greens

[ChasLawler]

Cabell Ackerly, 4.3 index, CC of Virginia (Richmond)

1. Toughest Hole - #12 James River Course. It a 430 yard uphill par 4 with a slight dogleg to the right. Off the tee it requires a long fade with the driver. Fade it a bit too much and you're in a bunker looking at a 180+ fade to the green from there. Fade it way to much and you're in the woods. Draw it a bit much and you're really in the woods on the other side. The second shot is uphill to a smallish green sloped rather severely from back to front and potected by bunkers on each side.

2. Easiest Hole - #1 Westhampton Course. A 280 yard par 4. As long as you don't try to drive the green, it's a routine par with a real good chance at birdie.

3. Toughest Personal Scenario - trees hugging the right side, with danger left. I like to play a draw, and often pull the old double cross when trying to hit a fade.

4. Toughest shot to execute - high fade

[James Edwards]

Cabell thankyou,

In order to get clear results, whats the easiest on the James River Course, why? and the hardest on the westhampton? why?

[Michael Dugger]

I am about a 15 and play at RTJones Jr. Heron Lakes Great Blue more often than not.

1.  IMHO, the toughest hole is not the #1 handicap.  #12 is a pretty long par five that forces you to carry a pond with both the tee shot and the approach.  Bunkers line the entire left hand side so you don't want to go there either.  The green has a wicked roll in it near the back portion that must be pushing about 10% grade.  Yes, I have managed to find both ponds in one round.

2.  The easiest is probably the 3rd.  Short par four, a few menacing bunkers that rarely come into play.  Green is on a plateau but mostly flat.  

3.  For someone who hits his fair share of shitty tee shots, for some reason I prefer forced carries off the tee.  Thus, this is not the most difficult tee shot, IMHO.  It may sound crazy but what I most fear is a steeply slanted, uneven and poorly groomed tee box.  I know this may sound like cheating but I guarantee I will melt down in this scenario because it just burns my ass that they can't get the damn tee boxes correct!  

More along the lines of the questioning, I have the most difficulty with the dogleg left that calls for about a 200 yard layup.  Can't EVER hit a draw when I need to.  Only when I need a fade

4.  Toughest shot for me to execute is a towering long iron.  Like the other gent said earlier, I just don't hit the long irons very well.  I'm great with punching them out of the trees (which I get a lot of practice with) but a lot of the times I pull out the five wood and end up flying the target.  Thus, maybe the most difficult shot to execute is the half fairway wood.  A little baby fiver.  Take a little off of it.    

[ChasLawler]

James River Easiest - #16 - 530 yard straight par5 - not a whole lot of trouble however you go about it.

Westhampton Hardest - #4- 420 yard straight par 4 - no water and not a single bunker on the hole... the fairway slopes to the left towards OB. Antything pulled off the tee is dead. Anything pushed is blocked out by a large tree.

[Mike Benham]

Mike Benham - 3 hdcp, Olympic Club

#5 - 457 yards requiring slight fade tee shot that does not go through the dogleg (not my favorite shot), big tree right so a bail right is not an option ... and then you have a long iron into the green that slopes pretty good from right to left ...

#12 - 410 yards from a shoot of trees but a second shot looking down to the green ... easy to visualize good shots ...

Toughest tee scenario - a shot that requires a draw shape when there is no bail out right either through the fairway, OB or water ...

A fade to a right hole placement ...

[Craig Disher]

CDisher, 10, Manor CC, Rockville, MD

#18 - 410 yard uphill reverse dogleg; bunker at the pivot; small green obscured protected by a yawning bunker front right. A 250 yard carry - not in my bag - has to be played to carry the bunker. Playing safe leaves 200+ into the prevailing wind. The green is a very small target.

#11 - 150 yard downhill par 3 over a pond. The green is large and relatively flat. Aiming for the center of the green leaves a lot of room for error and an easy 2-putt.

Any long carry - even if it is within my capabilities.

Long iron off a slight downhill lie.

[John Foley]

John Foley, 10.1, No home course - but play most often is Greystone, Rochester, NY

Describe,

1.  Whats the toughest hole on your home course? why?
#11. Par 4 430. Water left 200 yrds off tee, water right at 210 yards of tee & both are connected across fairway at 270 from tee. Can't hit Driver, 3 wood is possible, but miss left or right & your wet. Usual a 3Iron. Second shot is uphill to large sloping green w/ massive bunker front & right. Wide left or right is deep fesue.

2.  Whats the easiest? why?

#12 Par 5 510 yards. Good drive gets you home in two. Only trouble is fescue off the FW and bunker left side of green. pretty flat putting surface.

3.  What is your toughest personal scenario off the tee?

Tight fairway. Tree's or water on both sides. One or the other I'm usually OK. Both I'm screwed menatally.


4.  Whats the toughest shot in golf for you to execute?

Short bunker shot. Can't calibrate the 5 yard bunker shot, I'm either short or very long on this shot.

[Chris Kane]

Chris Kane, Commonwealth GC, 12

1. 11th is a 410yd dogleg right which almost invariably leaves me a long-iron approach to a very severe green.  Miss the green and you're dead: putting from above the hole is a nightmare

2. 1st is a 330 dogleg right, easy two-iron to acres of fairway, then a wedge to a massive green which has very little slope to make putts difficult.

3. Tight tree-lined fairway asking for a draw.

4. Long-irons and woods from the fairway.

[Paul Richards]

Name, Handicap and Home Club.

Paul Richards, currently a 12   at Beverly CC in Chicago.


Describe,

1.  Whats the toughest hole on your home course? why?

The toughest hole is the fifteenth.  A really strong four par, it plays over 460 from the back tee.  The driving area is really tight due to the trees and the ball generally lands on a downslope that helps kick it left, unless you really whollop one and get it all the way to a flat spot at about 300 yards from the tee.  Then the approach is to a large green, but it slopes from front to back and right to left, so it's tough to get it close.  A five is often a very good score here!



2.  Whats the easiest? why?

The easiest is probably the first hole as it only plays about 340 and follows Donald Ross' philosophy of letting the golfer get out of the gates with an easy one and building up to the tougher holes you will soon encounter.


Also,

3.  What is your toughest personal scenario off the tee?

For some reason I have a hard time on the 13th tee because it is a blind tee shot over a large hill and has out-of-bounds along the right side.  It shouldn't really affect me since I tend to hook the ball, but for some reason I end up hitting a big balloon right here!

i.e  Water down the right, wind off the left etc etc narrow fairway?

and finally,

4.  Whats the toughest shot in golf for you to execute?

The toughest shot for me is usually a chip that needs to get up-and-down.  I went to the Dave Pelz 3-day school and he made my crappy chipping even worse!

But he did improve my putting.

I'll explain later, you'll be interested.

[Andy_Lipschultz]

Andy Lipschultz, 9.6, La Purisima (Lompoc, CA)


No. 7 is the toughest. 400 yard dog-leg left. The ideal tee shot is a draw between the trees on the left and an oak tree in the middle of the fairway. It must be far enough so that you catch the downslope and funnel down to the flat part of the fairway. Otherwise, you are left with a downhill lie to a green that is appreciably uphill. If you want to cut the dogleg and fly it over the trees, you got some pew-lile bunkers to catch the tee shot. Go to the right of the oak tree with a big hit and you'll be lucky to find your ball. You can get a flat lie by laying up around 200 yards. It's an all or nothing tee shot.

The easiest is #11. Dog-leg right. Just avoid the waste area on the right; wide landing area. 2nd shot can be run up; flat green.

Toughest scenario is a long-iron, all carry.

The 3-footer for the win is the toughest shot to execute (at least it was today).

[Andrew_Roberts]

Andrew Roberts, 2 Handicap, Sumner Meadows, Washington

1.The 16th hole is a 232 yrd par 3 that plays into the wind most of the time during the summer.  The difficulty to this hole is that it has one what I believe to be the smallest green on the course with a nasty right to left slope.  There is also a very large tree on the left which is a visual distraction.  The place to miss is in the two bunkers left.

2.The 5th hole, a par 5 of about 490.  The hole is straight and very reachable.  Very little trouble if you stay out of the water left.

3. Carrying water.  I almost always carry it but I sometimes have troubles hitting a good shot.  A mental thing

4. I have a tendancy to hook the ball and I have problems successfully hitting a cut.

[mike_beene]

Mike Beene,4,Lakewood CC,Dallas    Toughest #11 425 yard down and slightly up to green.Above the hole you can't keep ball on green,beside hole is questionable                                      
Easiest #17 490 par 5 sharp dodleg left.Technology has ruined it.Used to have to hit wood in and worry about cross traps.Now a medium hitter like me hits 3wood 2iron(long hitters go further left and hit short irons in)        Off tee :out of bounds left.Cut tee shot toughest to execute,long putt a close second.                    

[CHrisB]

Onion Creek Club in Austin, TX

1. Toughest hole is #15, a 414-yard par four with trees forming a narrowing left-to-right diagonal "alley" for the tee shot.  The farther right the more the carry required, and a pulled shot goes through into the trees and a pushed shot stays in the trees right.  Recovery shots are difficult because of a "barranca" that runs about 40-90 yards from the green.  The prevailing wind is right-to-left against the dogleg, which makes for an uncomfortable tee shot.

2. Easiest hole is #5, a reachable par-5 with an exceptionally wide fairway.  Narrows up a bit at the green, but plenty of room to maneuver.

3. Toughest scenario off the tee is a left-to-right-into wind where there is trouble left but I need to start the ball there and trust the wind to move it back to the target.

4. Toughest shot for me to execute is a high long-iron shot.

(Handicap +1)