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Carl Johnson

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Small towns, little courses New
« on: July 29, 2009, 09:31:07 PM »
Yesterday I played 18 (walked for $16 beginning at 10 am) at the Grassy Creek Golf and Country Club in Spruce Pine, N.C. [USA] (a/k/a the Mineral City and Home of the Perfect Christmas Tree), way off the beaten path in the western N.C. mountains (Mitchell County, with a total county pop. of about 15,000).  I've known of the course for years and have driven past it many times.  I have no idea who designed and/or built it or when.  It was always dissed by my friends.  What I found was a sufficeintly well conditioned, very interesting course.  I say it's "little" because the course is 6,277 from the back, the greens are fairly small and the fairways somewhat narrow.  Other "faults": the greens are a little spongy and slow (but without blemishes), a number of traps in disrepair, and "tree management" is lacking. [Edit: revisit in 2011 found greens firm, not too slow, and in great shape.]  Yet, and this is based on my recent interest in gca, both from reading and this site, I found the course well-routed and challenging, yet sufficiently low-key to be available to any player.  The practice range and green are small, yet as we finished there were probably 15 to 20 children having a group lesson.  The staff was exceptionally welcoming.  The two of us, in our late 60's, who made the tee time walked and carried our bags (6/7 clubs), and a single joined us in a cart.  We played the somewhat hilly course in 3:40, taking about 10 min. off for a hot dog at the turn.  Among other things, I amused myself by imagining what could be done to bring this course to the next level.  On this site we talk about gca at your Prestwicks, Cruden Bays, Hidden Creeks, ANGC and so on.  What about the Grassy Creeks of the world?  There must be lots of them -- not to say that every little, small town course (or even this one) should be revered.  Should we care about these courses?  What makes them?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 12:35:51 PM by Carl Johnson »

Harvey Dickens

Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2009, 09:49:26 PM »
Carl,
Sounds a litle like the country club I belong to (emphasis on country). I certainly care about them. There is a little nine hole course not far away that has greens nearly as good as the Bay Hills and Valhalla's. There are some real gems out there for those with the right attitude.

Jay Kirkpatrick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2009, 09:50:26 PM »
Carl --  Love the post.  I agree... this site has a tendency of turning into a "look at all the great places I've played" pissing match.  But there are a bunch of fun, good hidden gems in the Mayberrys of the world. These can be just as fun to discuss as the masterpieces.  As a NC resident, I can count many of these smalltown courses among my favorites.  

Deep Springs in Madison, NC is one that comes to mind off the top of my head.  Its a well-routed, plenty strategic Ellis Maples design with an active membership tucked in the middle of nowhere.

http://www.deepspringscc.com/default.asp

A couple years back I enjoyed a small course, Nob North, outside of Dalton, Georgia.  It was built in 1978 by Gary Player... I assume one of his earlier efforts.  I encourage any of you in the area to check it out.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 10:21:38 PM by Jay Kirkpatrick »

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2009, 09:55:41 PM »
Sounds like a neat place, Carl. Yes, we absolutely should care about them. They are the back bone of architecture. They make us scratch our chins and ask, "why did so and so dis it, and yet I had a great time?" "What is it about his place?" When they effect positive questions to ask ourselves, yes, they are worth it.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Peter Pallotta

Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2009, 10:08:01 PM »
Carl - after living in downtown Toronto my whole life, we moved a year ago to a much smaller town. And much to my great good fortune, I soon came across the 9 hole Guelph Golf and Country Club: built about 95 years ago, designed back then by Mr. Anonymous, virtually unchanged (according to some of the oldest members; it was private for about 75 years, 'semi-private' now), full of interesting shots and challenges and charm over hilly ground, good people, a good walk, a 10 minute drive from home. I look forward to becoming a member and making it my home-course, and supporting it. Goodness gracious, but THIS is the soul of golf....

Peter
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 10:11:19 PM by Peter Pallotta »

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2009, 10:12:50 PM »
we need more of those courses Carl!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Mike_Cirba

Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2009, 10:13:21 PM »
Carl,

Fabulous post, and this is the sort of thing that makes me still participate here.

The vast majority of courses I've played have been "Grassy Creeks".

I haven't had the opportunity to play nearly as much this year as I'd love to, and in particular I haven't had as much chance to play new courses this year as I usually do, but last month Jen's oldest daughter got married in upstate Owego, NY, and during a long weekend I got to play;

1) Pheasant Hill CC in Owego, designed by the Springsteen brothers (no Bruce, though)

2) Apalachin GC in Apalachin, with 9 holes from the 60s by the patriarch of the family and 9 later by his sons

3) Germany Hill CC near Candor, which was 9 of the strangest, most unique holes I've ever seen, and should be it's own post at some date.

Frankly, I love these type of places.

Jason Hines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2009, 10:13:41 PM »
Absolutely Carl.  this site has a tendency of turning into a "look at all the great places I've played" pissing match.  Jay you are correct.  We do a lot of talking on this sight about the spirit of the game, accessibility, screw manicured conditions etc.  

Most can be found in small town golf.  I will also add what you get in rural American golf is community pride as well.  

Some of the small town golf places that ooze character from my past:

http://www.saraspace.com/fcc/fcccourse.html

http://www.fremontgolfclub.org/

http://www.friendcountryclub.com/FCC_Golf_Course/Friend_Country_Club_Golf_Course.html


I am sure most of you have your own examples..

Chris DeNigris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2009, 10:37:24 PM »
I grew up playing summers in the Poconos on a little course near Lake Wallenpaupack. Began as a neat 9-holer called Tanglwood, added a 2nd 9 in the mid-70s and changed names to Paupack Hills. Really good greens.

Anyone ever play it?

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2009, 10:42:22 PM »
Among my favorite memories of golf are circa 1985.  I would play at the local 9 holer in the early evening.  No one in sight.  My wife would push a stroller in the rough with my than one year old daughter.  By the time my son was born a year or so later the lawyers decided this was unsafe.  Also, golf became popular, leagues took off and the course was no longer empty in the evening.  Too bad.  An era lost.

Dale_McCallon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2009, 10:42:35 PM »
I know that some of the members of this site have had the pleasure of being around world class courses all of their life; but for the biggest majority of us "Grassy Creek" is the course we are most familiar.  I just got home from my home course.  A university owned course where a yearly membership is a whopping $500 a year.  Walking allowed whenever and after the round a great little outdoor area to have a Coke and shoot the breeze.  

Will the course ever be a destination; not unless someone gets really lost.  But on a tight budget, the staff there is able to present a pretty good course on a daily basis.  I've described my home course as a place like "Cheers--Where everyone knows your name."  

Mike_Cirba

Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2009, 10:56:44 PM »
I grew up playing summers in the Poconos on a little course near Lake Wallenpaupack. Began as a neat 9-holer called Tanglwood, added a 2nd 9 in the mid-70s and changed names to Paupack Hills. Really good greens.

Anyone ever play it?

Chris,

Yep...George Fazio design.   I played it back in high school when it was called Tanglwood.   

Back to back par threes on 16 & 17, if memory serves.  ;D

Chris_Clouser

Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2009, 11:06:15 PM »
Noblesville, In has a nice municipal golf course called Fox Prairie that I have played at several times.  The original 18 holes has a nice routing and uses the ground pretty well.  There are also a few really nice holes.  It still has one of the 5 best short par fours I have ever seen in person.  The only problem is the place is overpriced by about 10 bucks on the green fees.

Chris DeNigris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2009, 11:15:45 PM »
Mike,

Your memory serves like Andy Roddick  :D

16 is a great drop shot 3 with a wonderful view of the lake.

Too many trees for most people's taste but an interesting layout and a reasonable walk for a mountain course.

Mike_Cirba

Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2009, 11:21:04 PM »
Mike,

Your memory serves like Andy Roddick  :D

16 is a great drop shot 3 with a wonderful view of the lake.

Too many trees for most people's taste but an interesting layout and a reasonable walk for a mountain course.

Chris,

Ah yes, and 17 had sort of a Pine-Valleyish-inspired, stylish, sprawl of sand virtually from tee to green on a much flatter hole, and 18 played around a lake.

I also seem to remember that I had more hair back then.  ;D


***EDIT***
Speaking of small towns, modest courses, I've changed my avatar to the view from the first tee of the first golf course I ever played...the nine-hole, 2200 yard "Scott View Golf Course" in Montdale, PA, which I played a week shy of my 13th birthday in 1971.

These days, after going by the name "Nine Flags" for a number of years, they are known as "Scott Greens GC", and even have a website, striped pattern grasscutting, and lord forbid...bunkers!   :o

Some things should never change, including this blasphemous modernization!   :-\ >:(

Truth is, I'm thrilled that someone is still making a financial go of the place all these years later.

When I joined as a member with unlimited golf in 1973, the cost was $35 annually.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 11:24:59 PM by MCirba »

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2009, 11:47:50 PM »
Mannitto GC in New Alexandria/Saltsburg, PA
Willowbrook GC in Lockport, NY (27 holes)
Waubeeka Golf Links in Williamstown, MA
Miner Hills GC in Middletown, CT
Winston Lakes GC in Winston-Salem, NC
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2009, 12:45:53 AM »
Obviously Ireland has a long list of fabulous sea-side links courses - but I grew up playing during every other summer at a small county course in Cavan (one of the Republic counties in Ulster).

This course is built over the land as it was found - it's no Sand Hills or even CommonGround but what great memories of 54 holes a day after hitching a ride to the course.

It is pure golfing fun with a little quirk but not too much and some fun/challenging holes.

http://www.cavangolf.ie/index.php?page=gallery


Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2009, 11:35:18 AM »
Sounds like a neat place, Carl. Yes, we absolutely should care about them. They are the back bone of architecture. They make us scratch our chins and ask, "why did so and so dis it, and yet I had a great time?" "What is it about his place?" When they effect positive questions to ask ourselves, yes, they are worth it.

David, I know you're not asking me to answer these questions regarding Grassy Creek, but, yes, I did ask myself these questions, and here are my answers anyway.  From an architectural standpoint, what struck me the most was the routing and use of the terrain.  I guess you'd call it a "mountain course" because it's located in the mountains, but the ups and downs are not severe.  To my eye, very little dirt was moved in the building of the course.  The layout simply takes advantage of what was there.  Most of the fairways have interesting movement, but with maybe one exception, an uphill par five, nothing extreme.  I found a surprising number of optional ways to approach many of the greens, and expect on futher play I'd find more.  Although the ground is not extremely firm, it's firm enough (with exceptions on some of the holes) to open a fair number of ground game possibilities.  I will remember ("memorable") any number of holes on this course.  Although smallish, as I said at the outset, a number of the greens have interesting contours and enough slope that you don't want to be putting from the "wrong" side of the hole.  The holes are contiguous.  Although there are some homes and apartments of condos on the perimeter of the property, internally the fairways are not lined with homes.  Why doesn't this course get more respect, at least from my golfing friends?  I'd guess "too short," no "name recoginition," and an insufficient appreciation of the elements of gca.  I would not be honest if I did not admit that but for my fairly recent interest in gca, I might not have given a second thought to the course either.  Finally, to be perfectly clear, I'm not touting this particular course.  It's one of those places you play if you lived there, or maybe were passing through and had some time.  I'm using it to illustrate the larger point about the virtures that you can find in many similar courses all over the world if you're open to them.  I'm also happy that others on the site seem to agree with me.

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2009, 11:58:24 AM »
I would add Harrison Hills to this list of quality golf in a small town.

Chris_Clouser

Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2009, 01:04:10 PM »
Mark,

Great call on Harrison Hills.  I don't know if it is the #3 public course in Indiana as one publication had it, but very solid layout.  Indiana is full of those type of places.  I know that it doesn't get a lot of press in relation to its crosstown brethren, but Mystic Hills in Culver is a very nice pulic track also.

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2009, 01:10:12 PM »
There's a fun 9 holer in Nashville, Illinois -- a town of less than 5000 people, where probably 3500 play golf.  The course in nearby Okawville is also nice.  Some of my best golf weekends were spent in Nashville.  They take great delight in taking $$ from the big city lawyer.  Great people, and a plethora of good looking girls. . .

Will MacEwen

Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2009, 01:25:26 PM »
Qualicum Memorial, Qualicum Beach BC.  AV Macan design.  Sort of reminds me of Pacific Grove.

The only negative is they replaced the ramshackle clubhouse with a monstrous one - I guess that is like PG as well....

Alan Gard

Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2009, 03:58:29 PM »
I have to thank Jason, I didn't even know the Friend Country Club had a website!  I started playing there when I was 6, and probably played 95% of my rounds there until I graduated from college and moved to CT.  I miss courses like that.  It wasn't fancy, but it was always in good condition, had a good mix of holes, wasn't too crowded, and was just a fun place to play growing up.  I think there is a lot to be said for the "quality of golf" one gets at the small, off the beaten track, but still interesting golf courses.

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2009, 04:02:05 PM »
Old Hickory Golf Club in Beaver Dam, Wisconsin.  9 of the 18 holes are from Bendelow.  Lots of quirk, and really fun.

hick

Re: Small towns, little courses
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2009, 03:22:03 PM »
Lincoln country club in Lincoln Rhode Island is a small town and club 15 min  from providence with about 200 members. Many times you find only ten cars in the parking lot. A couple of the greens are from Rhode Island country club as they were installing new greens in 1955. Its a very tight quirky course at 5800 yards whith small greens and a very nice low key clubhouse. For this area 140 a month in dues is great.  Twenty miles up the blackstone valley is whitinsville which is a small town and a great nine hole course.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 04:43:47 PM by Mat Hickey »