[Tim Leahy]

I played Harding Park in SF last Sunday and was shocked by the condition of the greens with a major pro tourney coming up in Oct.  These greens were not only bad by pro standards but even by muni standards, large bare spots with just dirt and many many unrepared ball marks with uneven cuts.
 For the greenskeepers out there, is there enough time, even with SF foggy weather for them to get these greens in shape by October for a major event like the Pres. Cup?
If Tiger doesn't like the bumpy greens at Pebble wait until he gets a look at these.

[Kevin_Reilly]

I played there in June and they were in poor condition.  I also saw bare spots.  Thankfully the field size of the President's Cup is small, so they won't be subject to as much wear and tear during the event itself.

[Matt_Cohn]

As I mentioned tangentially in another thread, the greens are being rolled most days and they're decreasing daily play pretty soon. But Tim, that doesn't sound good at all. And you make a good point that Harding might not get a lot of sunshine over the next month or two.

[Ian Larson]

Yes, there is time. Hopefully they have a plan in place to shut down or decrease play early enough to tune in the greens with any damage and ball marks. Im sure they do.

[David_Tepper]

I have played Harding several times over the past couple of months. The good news is they putt better than the look. The bad news is some of them, especially the ones in the interior of the course (the front-9), don't look very good.

It looks like the greens are at the stage where the poa is starting to to take root in patches on the greens and it is very unsightly. Hopefully, we will get some sunshine and warm weather from mid-September till the event in October. That should make a big difference.

[Mike Benham]

I also believe that the company managing the course was change a month or two ago (end of contract).

[JSPayne]

With all that's gone on between Harding and Sharp Park, it appears that the SF area has absolutely NO CLUE how to handle public golf. Can't they get somebody that knows what the hell they're doing to take the reins on these disasters? It's such a shame to see a historical golf course (Sharp Park) and an expensive rennovation (Harding) go to such a waste...........

[Kyle Henderson]

I've played Harding Park on one occasion, in the company of the great Jon Cougar Mellancamp Spaulding during May of 2009. On that day, the greens were stimping no faster than a 5 (not an exaggeration) and very patchy. I was upset by the $90 "Nor Cal Resident" rate under said conditions.

[Kalen Braley]

Ahhh,

Good to see Gib firing on all cylinders again...epic stuff.  And while I could only dream to have the ability to put words together like that, he is undoubtedly exactly spot on again.

Muni Golf in San Francisco represents everything that is wrong with golf IMO.  Massively bloated renovations/projects, piss poor conditioned and over-priced courses, negative stereo-typing of the golfing class, corrupt management with union contracts to sabatoge...err take care of the courses. I don't know why this frustrates me such, perhaps cause I was born and raised not far from there.....but this stuff really drives me nuts.  The inmates really are running the asylum and now it seems they found the keys to the bus and are ready to drive it over the cliff.

Perhaps in an Atlas Shrugged kind of way, this is exactly what needs to happen before the people wake up and take back the city.

P.S. Gib...Organic isn't any better for you.  I've yet to find one study that confirms this...its just more expensive for you and your taxpaying dollar.

[Matt_Cohn]

Half of them are sexual deviants...

...the newest initiative from our adulterous mayor...

Inappropriate, unecessary. I disagree that there's anything epic about this kind of rant.

[Kyle Henderson]

I think Mayor Newsome may be a step or two ahead of us. For example, is it not possible that monkeys will process the organic food stuffs into fertilizers to be used in the reconstitution of Harding's greens?

[Ian Larson]

Wow, I gues it needs to be put in perspective as to HOW bad they really are...stimping a 5? Thats really bad....

Gib, that was awesome!

[David_Tepper]

Ian -

The greens may have been stimping at 5 when Kyle was last there.

I can assure you they were not stimping any where near 5 when I have played the course in the past 6-8 weeks.

DT 

[Kyle Henderson]

Ian -

The greens may have been stimping at 5 when Kyle was last there.

I can assure you they were not stimping any where near 5 when I have played the course in the past 6-8 weeks.

DT 

It may have been slower. They were by far the slowest greens I've ever played upon. I recall bashing putts as forcefully as I dared to advance the ball about 40 feet.

[Matt_Cohn]

Matt dear boy,

Perhaps you can explain to the Treehouse congregation how porking the wife of the same close friend who got you elected is not "inappropriate and unnecessary."

The difference here is that while you find offensive my belief that elected officials be held to a minimum standard of decency, I find your sophomoric dogma amusing. 

Gib old man,

I don't know you in person, but do you really need me to explain what I mean? I hear from others whom I trust that you're an intelligent guy.

Love,
Matt

Yes, there is time. Hopefully they have a plan in place to shut down or decrease play early enough to tune in the greens with any damage and ball marks. Im sure they do.

Ian,

They are cutting to 144/day around now, 72/day in a month, maybe one more cut after that, and then closed for about 10 days before the pros show up.

[Ian Larson]

Yes, there is time. Hopefully they have a plan in place to shut down or decrease play early enough to tune in the greens with any damage and ball marks. Im sure they do.


Ian,

They are cutting to 144/day around now, 72/day in a month, maybe one more cut after that, and then closed for about 10 days before the pros show up.



...thats a great plan of attack they have! As long as the super is truly planning ahead with the greens fert, growth regulator, topdressing and turf repair regimes those greens will be rolling just fine for the tourney. Those 10 days alone just before will make a HUGE difference. 10 days with no play and nothing but maintenance.....you guys wont even recognize them come tourney week.

[Tim Leahy]

The speed didn't bother me as much as the large bare patches and the bumps. Some of my groups putts looked like Kobe was dribbling the ball to the hole.
The stands were already being set up, so I guess there is no chance on moving it to another club. I played Lake Merced on Monday it was in incredible shape and could easily hold a pro tourny.

[Mike Benham]

Did you know that the PGA Tour had made a proposal to the C&C of SF to make Harding Park a TPC?

In a letter dated May 2008, David Pillsbury, President of PGA Tour Golf Course Properties, the PGA Tour, through its Golf Course Properties subsidiary " would provide management services to the City for no management fee. We have been in the business of operating high-end golf facilities for 27 years, beginning with TPC Sawgrass and Tournament Players Club brand is widely recognized as the pre-eminent brand in golf course quality, both agronomically and with respect to customer service. There are currently 27 TPCs in the Tournament Players Club Network, of which we operate 19."

"As part of the relationship, PGA TOUR would provide the TPC brand ¡n connection with Harding Park, thus permitting the facility
to be promoted, both domestically and internationally, with facilities such as TPC Sawgrass, TPC Scottsdale and TPC Las Vegas. This media promotion exceeds $5 million in value annually and, as our experience at TPCs has shown, will drive incremental non-resident play to Harding Park."

"Unlike other management companies, PGA TOUR's motivation behind this framework is not driven by a pursuit of bottom-line profits. Rather, this concept of working in concert with the City has as its basis the desire to preserve and enhance the quality of the Harding Park facility for the benefit of (1) competitive tournament golf to be played there and (2) the City in drawing substantial incremental non-resident golfers to the City and in providing the best golf experience to its citizens. We also believe that, properly maintained and
operated, Harding Park would be an excellent addition to PGA TOUR's TPC Network."

However, the PGA Tour did require one commitment from the C&C of SF:

"In order for this concept to be feasible, it will be necessary for the City to commit the appropriate resources necessary to deliver the high quality standards associated with Tournament Players Clubs. While this may increase operating costs, we believe that any increase will more than be covered by incremental revenue which a relationship with PGA TOUR can provide. Moreover, we believe that the citizens of San Francisco will appreciate having a premium quality facility available to them. Further, we believe that the contribution of our management expertise, brand and marketing resources could significantly improve the performance of Harding Park as well as the other properties and begin to mitigate the losses the City is experiencing."


As we may remember, the Stonebrae development in the Hayward hills ended up with the TPC San Francisco Bay name so this proposal was dropped by one or both parties.

[TX Golf]

This situation is nothing new....

I remember playing the course the a few days before they closed in for the AMEX (two weeks before the tournament) and the greens and fairways were absolutely appalling. However, I recall many of the players describing them as the best they putted all year (Tiger included).

I played last week and as previously mentioned, the greens were horrible. However, the difference between this time and last time is that they aren't just slow, they are filled with clumps of Poa. Before the AMEX they were pure bent, and after two weeks without play they were great. I'm not too sure that is in the cards this time around.

On the other hand, the fairways and rest of the course was GREAT.... a little wet but i'm sure the course won't be getting much water in the weeks heading up to the Pres. Cup. I sure hope it works out.... all the SF B of D's needs to hear is the best golfers in the world complaining about the course.... then our genius leaders in SF will really think that Harding is a waster of money... forgetting the millions of dollars that will be spent and hotels and restaurants during the Pres. Cup.

[Jon Spaulding]

Gib rules. Henderson stinks.....

The only thing worse than the condition of the greens was the design of the greens. They make Ted Robinson look like an inspired genius.

Newsom learned everything he knows about humping from Benham. There's a secton of the mission devoted to both.

I've never actually watched the presidents cup, and this year shall be no different. It's always been a made for tv deal, less the laugh tracks.



 

[jeffwarne]

This situation is nothing new....

I remember playing the course the a few days before they closed in for the AMEX (two weeks before the tournament) and the greens and fairways were absolutely appalling. However, I recall many of the players describing them as the best they putted all year (Tiger included).

I played last week and as previously mentioned, the greens were horrible. However, the difference between this time and last time is that they aren't just slow, they are filled with clumps of Poa. Before the AMEX they were pure bent, and after two weeks without play they were great. I'm not too sure that is in the cards this time around.

On the other hand, the fairways and rest of the course was GREAT.... a little wet but i'm sure the course won't be getting much water in the weeks heading up to the Pres. Cup. I sure hope it works out.... all the SF B of D's needs to hear is the best golfers in the world complaining about the course.... then our genius leaders in SF will really think that Harding is a waster of money... forgetting the millions of dollars that will be spent and hotels and restaurants during the Pres. Cup.

It would seem that the best case scenario would be that the greens continue to suck.
If they pull off a miracle and get them in shape for the event, the top brass will congratulate themselves on another job well done and the greens will continue to suck the rest of the time for the tax paying and greens fee paying customers.
Pros putting on poor greens is not the end of the world and would help with a wake up call.

[Lou_Duran]

Gib rules. Henderson stinks.....

The only thing worse than the condition of the greens was the design of the greens. They make Ted Robinson look like an inspired genius.

Newsom learned everything he knows about humping from Benham. There's a secton of the mission devoted to both.

I've never actually watched the presidents cup, and this year shall be no different. It's always been a made for tv deal, less the laugh tracks.



 

Smooch!  I thought you've played O-Lake.  

Matt Cohen,

Gib also has a big bite.  Be careful.  From what I remember, you might have an edge on the golf course, but perhaps not on his home turf.

Gib,

What do you have against monkeys?  If trees should have legal standing in court and frogs are more important than people having jobs, doesn't it follow that our simian brothers are deserving of hipper, healthier food?  Be careful, some day you may depend on one for your medical needs.

[Kyle Henderson]

Gib rules. Henderson stinks.....
 

I assume you're referring to my tumultuous golfing prowess, as my scent is heavenly. In fact, my pheromones are surprisingly effective in currying female advances -- much better, in fact, than my necrophilia jokes. But, now that I'm engaged, I plan to sell my sauce to those in need. Perhaps I can help move a few more cases of Donald Trump: The Fragrance.

[Bill_McBride]

Gib rules. Henderson stinks.....
 

I assume you're referring to my tumultuous golfing prowess, as my scent is heavenly. In fact, my pheromones are surprisingly effective in currying female advances -- much better, in fact, than my necrophilia jokes. But, now that I'm engaged, I plan to sell my sauce to those in need. Perhaps I can help move a few more cases of Donald Trump: The Fragrance.

Congratulations, Kyle!  I trust (and hope) that the lucky woman loves golf and wants nothing more than to be taken out to the course at every opportunity!  A toast: a votre sante!

[JohnV]

I just got the official invite that I'm going to be an observer on Saturday and Sunday at the Presidents Cup.  I'm looking forward to being out there ahead of the big boys.

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