News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Phil_the_Author

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #325 on: August 12, 2010, 11:31:11 PM »
David,

To follow up your answer on Raynor, the reason I asked is because of what you wrote in your post on the previous page in answer to the possible changes you would now make in your piece. You stated:

"Wilson was in contact with Macdonald almost immediately, and in March 1911, the month before construction would begin, the Construction Committee departed for NGLA so that Macdonald and Whigham could teach them how to lay out and  build the golf holes at Merion East..."  

Raynor was working with CBM at that time doing exactly that for the new course at Piping Rock and about to do it for him at Sleepy Hollow. Wouldn't it be only reasonable then that if he was specifically going to TEACH Wilson and the Committee how to "lay out and build the golf holes" that he would have the person at the meetings who he entrusted to do that very thing with his own designs? Its not like Raynor was on the other side of the country. As Tom Macwood pointed out he was a Long Islander and would be coming to NGLA from much closer than those from Philly. I honestly think it peculiar and needs looking into.

Probably just a minor and unimportant point, buit I do think it has its place in the story.

TEPaul

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #326 on: August 12, 2010, 11:37:12 PM »
"In fact I was discouraged on several fronts from sharing my essay with Merion.  By the way you guys have acted, that advice was obviously sound."



Well, in retrospect, I guess noone would say that since it was Wayne and Merion that found Macdonald's letter, not you. And it was Wayne and the Merion historians who went back to MCC and found that ALL IMPORTANT Wilson Report and the board meeting minutes of that all important April 19, 1911 MCC board meeting you never knew existed when you wrote your essay. Had you contacted us before you wrote that fallacious essay we may've been able to help you out with our access to MCC----and had you asked and had we provided you that information I doubt even you would've written that essay as our research and our information completely TRUMPED your entire thesis in that essay.  But as Peter Pallotta intelligently said----at that point you were pretty much locked in to never admitting you could possibly make mistaken about Merion's history despite never having seen o having had access to Merion's and MCC's archives like us!
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 11:38:52 PM by TEPaul »

Mike Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #327 on: August 12, 2010, 11:38:47 PM »
David and TMac,

What factual evidence exists that shows any activity between Macdonald and Merion in the period between July and November of 1910, the date you claim the design was completed?

You have nothing...this is a bigger hoax than crop circles.

Avoid, deflect, divert, and ignore, but the truth is that you guys cannot answer that question simply because you have absolutely nothing...not a shred of evidence.

I think you both should put up or give it a rest.

It's embarrassing already.

TEPaul

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #328 on: August 12, 2010, 11:41:20 PM »
MikeC:

You've been asking those questions of Moriarty and MacWood all day and at this point I think you know they are not going to attempt to answer it because they know they can't.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #329 on: August 12, 2010, 11:44:11 PM »
David Moriarty:

That remark is very funny. Yeah, sure, Merion knows EVERYTHING! The THING you don't understand is Merion and it's entire administration have all been real good friends of mine going back maybe thirty years. It doesn't really have anything to do with Wayne dircectly as I've known them all way longer than I've know him or they've known him. So sure, sometimes the subject of Golfclubatlas and you and MacWood comes up and we discuss it and mostly just laugh. They don't take you and Tom MacWood seriously, David Moriarty, as much as I'm sure you wish they would.


Fascinating.  I knew it wouldn't be above someone like you to pass around emails like a petty 7th grade girl, I had hoped a Club like Merion would have more class than that.

But since it is you that wrote that last post, there is a pretty good chance you are just lying again.   Perhaps I'll email them your messages and ask them whether it is their policy to provide private correspondence to you so that you can try to embarrass us on the internet.  

Just so I get it straight in my email . . .
1)  You claim that Merion or representatives of Merion gave you my and TomM's private correspondence sent to Merion?
2)  You insist that Merion or representatives of Merion approve of you distributing this private correspondence (and/or threatening to distribute it) on the web?   For the purposes of trying to embarrass those who sent the correspondence?
3)  And your justification for all this is that you are buddies with these guys at Merion, as if that makes it all okay?

I don't know Tom, for a guy who claims to care about Merion, you sure don't paint a very pretty picture of how they do things over there.   Or is that more of just the Main Line way?

____________________________


« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 11:46:38 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Mike Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #330 on: August 12, 2010, 11:59:07 PM »
Tom,

They refuse to answer because they've made preposterous claims withot a shred of evidence and it' embarassing now that someone has asked them to actually provide evidence to backup their claims.

They've boxed themselves into a corner by insisting that the routing had to happen prior to Wilson's committee in their misguided effort to besmirch his reputation and the irony is that now they've placed the routing event prior to CBM's involvement in the initial routing.

Left with nothing but firing insults and distractions in every possible direction. This charade is over, and their refusal to answer means its game, set, match.

Pity, because there is an interesting topic in here somewhere, but thei refusal to concede even the most obvious, disproven points about this matter now means the entire ship has hit the iceberg, and their refusal to answer means they have no lifeboats left. 

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #331 on: August 13, 2010, 12:39:56 AM »
David,

To follow up your answer on Raynor, the reason I asked is because of what you wrote in your post on the previous page in answer to the possible changes you would now make in your piece. You stated:

"Wilson was in contact with Macdonald almost immediately, and in March 1911, the month before construction would begin, the Construction Committee departed for NGLA so that Macdonald and Whigham could teach them how to lay out and  build the golf holes at Merion East..."  

Raynor was working with CBM at that time doing exactly that for the new course at Piping Rock and about to do it for him at Sleepy Hollow. Wouldn't it be only reasonable then that if he was specifically going to TEACH Wilson and the Committee how to "lay out and build the golf holes" that he would have the person at the meetings who he entrusted to do that very thing with his own designs? Its not like Raynor was on the other side of the country. As Tom Macwood pointed out he was a Long Islander and would be coming to NGLA from much closer than those from Philly. I honestly think it peculiar and needs looking into.

Probably just a minor and unimportant point, buit I do think it has its place in the story.

Phillip, "build" was there before.  I added "lay out and."   I think I originally used "build" to stay consistent with Wilson's 1916 description of the meeting, but it may not be the best word.  I don't mean to imply that they were talking about the nitty gritty of construction.  From Wilson's description I don't think they were going over hardcore construction details, but were rather learning about how these holes should work and how and and where they could be created at Merion.   Not detailed construction stuff, but more general stuff relating to how the holes were meant to work.   For a purely hypothetical example I imagine they were discussing such things as making the green on the short hole (the 13th) large and terraced slightly above the surrounding landscape.  Again, I just made that up for explanation purposes to demonstrate how they could have discussed how to create the holes without getting into nitty gritty construction details.  

Maybe I should change it to ". . . lay out and create the golf holes . . ."   Would that clarify it for you?  
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 12:42:42 AM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Mike Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #332 on: August 13, 2010, 06:12:23 AM »
Anyone see any factual evidence yet?

Didn't think so.

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #333 on: August 13, 2010, 07:08:11 AM »
I think it is misleading and inaccurate, but in the spirit of cooperation I will take away the underline. Actually I will move the underline to the part about the annual report.

"In 1909, the golfers of the Merion Cricket club formed the Merion Cricket GC Association to examine the problem presented by the Haskell ball, namely that it had made theri course obsolete. The moving spirits of this organization were Rodman E. Griscom, Charlton Yarnall, Robert Lelsey, Walter Stephenson, Alan Wilson and his younger brother, Hugh.

They explored the possibility of acquiring land around the old course so that it could be lengthened. However, no such land was available. They eventually settles on a 120-acre tract, located a little south of the Phila and Western Railroad tracks on both sides of Ardmore Avenue. The golf association bought the property and leased it back to the Cricket Club. Much of the land had been part of a William Penn grant. Since 1744, it had belonged to the Johnson family. Originally a farm, the place was now neglected. On the property stood a stone farmhouse, built in 1824, and large bank barn.

The Annual Report of 1910 informed Merion Cricket Club member of these developments.

The MCC Golf Association appointed a committee to lay out the new course. Its chairman was Hugh Wilson. The other members were Rodman E. Griscom, Dr. Henry Toulmin, Richard S. Francis and Horatio Gates Llloyd, who originally acquired the land.

This was a fine Committee for the job. Griscoms' accomplishments have been outlined in the first chapter. Francis was an officer of a construction company, an engineer and a surveyor, and his skills were invaluable. However, the chief burden fell on Wilson, who was the principal architect of the course.

Hugh Wilson was an excellent golfer, and learned the game on Merion's Haverford course. At Princeton, he was captian of the university's golf team. Graduating in 1902, Wilson returned to Philadelphia and joined his brother Alan in the insurance business. Eventually, Hugh became the president of the business.

A golf pilgrimage
In 1910, the Committee decided to send Hugh Wilson to Scotland and England to study their best courses and develop ideas for thr new course. Before he left, he visited the site of the NGLA, America's first modern golf course, then under constrcution in Southampton, NY. While there he discussed his itinerary with Charles B. Macdonald, the designer of the National and winner of the first US Amateur in 1895. Macdonald had made a similar journey for the same purpose some eight years earlier.

Wilson spent about seven months abroad, playing and studying course and sketching the features that struck him most favorably. When he returned, he carried a pile of notes as well as sheaves of sketches and surveyor's maps of outstanding holes and features. All of these avidly studied by the Committee.

One mystery still surrounds Wilson's trip to Britain, and that is the origin of the wicker flagsticks now so much a part of Merions' mystique. For years, it was said Wilson first saw them at Sunningdale Golf club located in Berkshire, England. However when the Captain of Sunningdale visited Merion in September, 1987, for the 75th Anniverserary, he averred that Sunningdale never had wickers! So where did Wilson see them?

Some say that it was another course near London with a similar name to Sunningdale. Others tell the story of a lady member of Merion who married an English lord and then put in a nine-hole course on his estate, using flower decorated baskets instead of flagsticks. Since she was a Philadelphian, Wilson is said to have visited her on his British trip and borrowed the basket idea. However, so far both the 'other course' near London and the lady from Merion have proved elusive.

When Wilson returned from England, both Macdonald and his son-in-law HJ Whigham (an Oxford player and 1896 and 1897 US Am Champion) freely gave him their advice. So the Club had the benefit of their experience as well as the skill and knoweldge of the committee.

Francis takes a hand
An interesting sidelight on the design of the new course comes from Richard Francis, who wrote the following in 1950:
"Except for many hours over a drawing board, running instruments in the field and just plain talking, I made but one important contribution to the layout of the course.
 The land was shaped like a capital “L” and it was not very difficult to get the first 13 holes into the upright portion – with the help of a little ground on the north side of Ardmore avenue – but the last five holes were another question.
 I was looking at a map of the property one night when I had an idea. Not realizing it was nearly midnight, I called Mr. Lloyd on the telephone, found he had not gone to bed, got on my bicycle and rode a mile or so to see him. (Richard Francis lived next to the Haverford Station of the PRR) The idea was this: We had some property west of the present course which did not fit in with any golf layout. Perhaps we could swap it for some good use?"

A great team
Besides the expertise of Francis, Wilson also had a first-class crew. Supervising construction was Merion's first greenkeeper William S. Flynn, who had been groundskeeper with the Cricket Club. Also involved was Howard C. Toomey, another groundskeeper at the Cricket Club, and civil engineer. After World War I, the pair formed the golf course architecture firm of Toomey and Flynn and designed such outstanding courses as Rolling Green in Philadlephia, the Cascades course at the Homestead, Hot Springs, VA, the James River course for the CC of Virginia, and Cherry Hill Country Club in Denver. The firm was also chosen to finish and revising the bunkering at Merion after Hugh Wilson's untimely death. Flynn appointed Joe Valentine as his construction foreman. Valentine had also worked as a groundskeeper at the Cricket Club, and as an immigrant from Italy, his knowledge of Italian was invaluable in supervising the largely Italian-speaking constrcution crew with their horsedrawn roadscrapers.

Flynn and Wilson were close friends and thought alike on the subject of golf architecture. For example both agreed that hazards should be plainly visible and abhorred the invisible pot bunker so often encountered on older British courses. 'A concealed bunker has no place on a golf course,' Flynn declared. 'When concealed, it does not register on the players' mind as he is about to play the shot, thus loses its value.' He added, 'The best looking bunkers are those that are gouged out of faces of slopes, especially when the slope faces the player. They are much more effective in that thaey stand there like sentinals beckoning the player.' When the course was under construction and later, during revisions, Valentine would spread bed sheets on the sire of a proposed bunker so the Wilson, standing on the tee or the area from which the shot would be played, could be certain that the hazard could be plainly seen by the golfer.

Merion, a masterpiece
The payout that Wilson fashioned at Merion was masterly. It was even more remarkable considering it was his first effort in course architecture. He fitted the holes onto the land as compactly as jigsaw puzzle. As a result, player only had to step a few yards from each green to the next tee. The trip to the Old country had certainly paid off.

While Wilson admitted that his concepts sprang from the holes he'd seen in Scotland and England--the third hole was inspired by North Berwick's fifteenth hole (The Redan) and the 17th, with its swale fronting the green, is reminiscent of the famed Valley of Sin at St. Andrews' 18th hole--none of the holes at Merion is an out and out copy. They are all original holes in their own right. Wilson had absorbed the principles underlying the great hole, then applied them to the terrain at his command.

It has been said that Hugh Wilson grasped these principles of Scottish and English course design and conveyed them in his work better than Charles Blair Macdonald. However, to compare Merion to the NGL is somewhat of an 'apples and oranges' proposition. Macdonald set out to 'model each of the 18 holes (at the National) after the most famous holes abroad.' that is, to duplicate these holes. Wilson never intended to design Merion under such constraints. His objective was to build a course that would rival the finest British parkland course in beauty and shot values. He succeeded admirably.

If it were possible to physically lift Merion and set it dons at an appropriate site Britain, the native golfers would feel right at home on it in not time at all. they would appreciate the artfully set tees, aligned toward trouble rather straight down the fairway, and the sloping fairways, which so often present a hilly lie that makes the best shape of a shot doubly difficult, the naturalness of the bunkers and their plantings of dune grass and Scottish broom, the variety of green shape and the subtle contours of the putting surfaces, which sometimes almost defy reading, as well as their fast pace. The British love a course where you have to use your head, place your tee shots and hit precise shots with every club in your bag; that's Merion East, exactly.

Construction of the new course began in the early spring of 1911. By September, the grass seed, a German variety chose after much investigation and tests, had been sown. It was allowed to grow that autumn and the following spring and summer. On September 12, 1912, the old course at Haverford was closed, and on the 14th, the new course and the clubhouse were opened to members.

Incidentally, that date work started on the new course lays to rest an oft-told, rather romantic story that Wilson, on his return from Britain, miraculously avoided a planned sailing home on the pride of the White Star line, the SS Titanic. The liner struck an iceberg and sank on the night of April 14-15th, 1912. Obviously, if work started on the course in the spring of 1911, Wilson was already safely back in the United States before the ill-fated ship ever set out on its maiden voyage.

A report of the opening said that the course was 'among experts considered the finest inland links in the country.' This was the assessment that has been echoed down through the years."

« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 10:03:02 AM by Tom MacWood »

Mike Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #334 on: August 13, 2010, 07:51:37 AM »
Tom,

What's inaccurate about 120 acres purchased?

TEPaul

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #335 on: August 13, 2010, 08:16:30 AM »
"Since the first and second have been conceded to be inaccurate, meaningfully or not, let's move on to number three."



Tom MacWood:

No, let's not move on to number three because the first and second most certainly have not been conceded to be inaccurate, meaningfully or not! But nice try anyway. ;)

 
"The land was originally purchased by the Haverford Development Co., not the MCCGA."




No, the land was not originally purchased by the Haverford Development Company. I guess you need to do a bit more digging. What do you call it? Research, right?
 


"Tolhurst also got the number of acres wrong as mentioned in the report."



No, Tolhurst did not get the number of acres wrong. The MCCGA purchased 120 acres. A bit more research might be required on your part, huh?  ;)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 08:19:14 AM by TEPaul »

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #336 on: August 13, 2010, 08:20:33 AM »
Mike
The annual report Tolhurst referred to stated 117 acres was purchased, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and didn't underline it.

Mike Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #337 on: August 13, 2010, 08:23:17 AM »
Tom,

What annual report?

Are you referring to that circular solicitation letter from Nov 1910 to the members?

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #338 on: August 13, 2010, 08:25:24 AM »
See post #159.

Mike Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #339 on: August 13, 2010, 08:28:36 AM »
Tom,

Are you guys still calling that solicitation letter an "Annual Report"?

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #340 on: August 13, 2010, 08:33:16 AM »
That is what Tolhurst called it. Take it up with him.

TEPaul

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #341 on: August 13, 2010, 08:38:40 AM »
"Or is that more of just the Main Line way?"



Yep, Moriarty, I guess you could call it just the Main Line way. I've known ALL those guys over at Merion pretty well for about thirty years now. Played a lot of golf together, know them all socially and such and have developed a good research relationship with the club and a number of its members. You know what I mean? Sort of some basic stuff like that?  ;)

So you go right ahead and just email them anything you want and see what they say about it. Why don't you even cc the president of the club in some attempt to embarrass the historian member you're emailing like Tom MacWood did?? I'd suggest you also tell them you think we're all acting like a bunch of 7th grade girls around here with a serious researcher/historian/essayist from California who doesn't even have the commonsense to understand if one is going to do an indepth study of some subject like Merion GC, and an essay about it on the INTERNET ;)------it's a pretty fundamental concept to establish a working research relationship with them FIRST and then go there BEFORE you do your essay to do the necessary RESEARCH on IT. That's what we've done over the years with the aspects of that club's history we've been interested in such as William Flynn. Why do you think you're any different?

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #342 on: August 13, 2010, 08:38:47 AM »
"Since the first and second have been conceded to be inaccurate, meaningfully or not, let's move on to number three."



Tom MacWood:

No, let's not move on to number three because the first and second most certainly have not been conceded to be inaccurate, meaningfully or not! But nice try anyway. ;)

 
"The land was originally purchased by the Haverford Development Co., not the MCCGA."




No, the land was not originally purchased by the Haverford Development Company. I guess you need to do a bit more digging. What do you call it? Research, right?
 


"Tolhurst also got the number of acres wrong as mentioned in the report."



No, Tolhurst did not get the number of acres wrong. The MCCGA purchased 120 acres. A bit more research might be required on your part, huh?  ;)


Lloyd and/or Haverford Development...the bottom line is Tolhurst was incorrect.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #343 on: August 13, 2010, 08:40:03 AM »

The land was originally purchased by the Haverford Development Co., not the MCCGA.



Tom,

For the sake of accuracy...why did you add in the word "originally" to that sentence when Tolhurst never had it.

Also, would "originally" imply from the beginning of time? The American Revolution? That morning? Which date are you using to determine "originally"?

Another also...why would you lay into ETPaul for misrepresenting documents if you're going to do the same thing...I would have suggested (as an advisor, of course) that you keep your intentions quiet in hopes nobody will notice...


Seriously though, why would you add in "originally" there?

Mike Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #344 on: August 13, 2010, 08:52:51 AM »
Tom,

Both Heilman and Tolhurst claim they read an Annual Report that includes information not found in the circular solicitation letter.

Why would you say the referred to that letter as an Annual Report when they are clearly referring to a different document?

Btw...

Do you have any factual evidence that the golf course was routed in final form by mid-Nov 1910?

Do you have any factual evidence that CBM, or anyone, really...Barker, President Taft, Space Aliens, Ty Cobb...anyone will do...do you have any factual evidence that someone routed the course in the second half of 1910, prior to Wilson's Committee???

Any factual evidence at all?!?


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #345 on: August 13, 2010, 08:53:41 AM »
Holy shit!  Why do I get the impression that you lot couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery?  I checked in because folks said you were more civil and making progress.  People call this progress?  You lot need a mediator who is harsh and to the point if you have any hope of actually being able to fully comprehend what is being said by all sides.  Yet another train wreck from the same crew who steered the same train off the tracks many times before.  When will you folks learn?  Do you not in the least care if you actually progress toward something which matters?  It is obvious from the number of hits that folks want to know the "story", but trying to follow the Sargassian like arguments is nigh on impossible.  This thread is yet another example of the heights of selfishness you lot display.  Try and put yourself in the proverbial "our" shoes for a moment and perhaps you will endeavour to make this entire thread of shit begin to make some sense.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mike Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #346 on: August 13, 2010, 08:59:22 AM »
Sean,

The refusal of Tom and David to provide any factual evidence to backup their specious claims, and then to divert and deflect the discussion when pressed to provide factual evidence is the reason this thread is making no progress.

That, and their refusal to acknowledge even the most obvious disproven allegations get old.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #347 on: August 13, 2010, 09:00:30 AM »
Sean,

Are you suggesting that this conversation should try to accomplish something? Something that those not in the conversation might be able to make sense of?

What are you, nuts?

TEPaul

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #348 on: August 13, 2010, 09:01:23 AM »
"Lloyd and/or Haverford Development...the bottom line is Tolhurst was incorrect."



Tom MacWood:

Nope, not Lloyd or HDC. Why don't you guess again? Maybe the third time will be a charm. ;)

No, Tolhurst wasn't incorrect. I don't believe Tolhurst even mentioned HDC or Horatio Gates Lloyd in either of his history books but I'd be glad to check to see if he mentioned either of them.

The bottom like here is you're incorrect when you said the original owner was HDC. The title to the land Merion East is on was never in the name of HDC. These kinds of details are important if someone is trying to vet a club's history or even trying to vet a vettor's vetting of some subject like the history of Merion and Merion East. You even said so yourself on this thread yesterday. ;) Try doing a bit more digging, or research, or whatever you call that stuff you say you do.  ;)

OR, you could perhaps, make it easier for yourself to get this kind of detailed information. You could try to establish a research relationship with Merion GC OR you could just ask me to tell you what the correct information is. Frankly you should've begun to do both about seven and a half years ago on this subject.   :-*
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 09:27:35 AM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #349 on: August 13, 2010, 09:11:32 AM »
"Also, would "originally" imply from the beginning of time? The American Revolution? That morning? Which date are you using to determine "originally"?"





Sully, my young moderating, advising friend, I have no idea why Tom MacWood added "originally" either, but if you would like me to (which I'm fairly sure you wouldn't) I would be MORE than happy to take you (and/or Tom MacWood  ::) ) through the ENTIRE title run of that property Merion East is on-----and all the way from when Billy Penn took it off the Indians and unto himself through every owner after that right on up until today. One of Merion's historians some years ago went to the Recorder of Deeds in Delaware County and got that entire title run some years ago and in the last year or so I went back to the Recorder of Deeds at Media, the County seat of Delaware County and got the deed transfers from Dec 1910 through July 1911. The final one in July 1911 was actually in place until 1942 when it was transfered from MCCGA to the newly formed Merion Golf Club.

Believe it or not, THAT is all in Merion's archives too.  ;)

It really is too bad these two "Club History Vettors and Correctors" on this INTERNET website, MacWood and Moriarty, never made the effort to search it all out to see any of it for themselves.  ;)

It is for that reason that some of us here had to do that for them which unfortunately proved most of the points in that essay, "The Missing Faces of Merion" wrong. If they'd had this information before that essay I doubt even they would've written it or would have written what they did.

As Peter Pallotta astutely said on here yesterday when we found all this additonal material after the essay came out and pointed it out to them they then apparently just dug in their heels and tried to tell us that all that additional material must be incorrect (meaningfully or otherwise) or hyperbole on the part of those who recorded it back then and such.

AND NOW, simply to divert the attention of ALL of us from the fact of having to admit they were wrong they now dredge up poor old Desmond Tolhurst to try to prove HE was wrong.

It's a bit amazing to me that about 1,000 of the registered contributors on here or even Ran Morrissett just don't get on this thread and tell these two pot-stirers to quit this nonsensical game of theirs. I think everyone must see, at this point, that those two are only doing this, have always done it with Merion to try to make some kind of name or reputation for themselves by trying to make the competent historians of Merion look bad. That is their obvious MO on here----that's their gig and the last few pages of this thread should make that just about as obvious and obvious can get!   ;)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 09:45:27 AM by TEPaul »

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back