[JESII]

I'm happy to take a liberal reading to this stuff...as long as it's consistently liberal. I said 25 pages ago that I am willing to twist the words these guys wrote in an attempt to figure out what is the most logical chain of events. Relying on an iota of factual evidence that Wilson was out there prior to 1911 in order to admit he likely was is exactly the same as Tom Macwood saying that Wilson's committee appointment in 1911 precludes him from being out there prior to that...do you see my point? You both would like to read certain things strictly and take some leeway with other things.

[Mike Cirba]

Jim,

I think it would be a mistake to believe he wasn't out there prior, even in the absence of evidence that he was, so I agree with you there.

I'd also like to get past this nonsense that Wilson was simply some insurance salesman...a simple insuranceman until he changed into Underdog, if you will.  

Hugh Wilson was a bit of a golfing prodigy.   In the late 1890s he was a member at Belmont, which became Aronimink.   At the age of 18, he had the lowest handicap in the club...by EIGHT strokes.   Obviously, he was also their first club champion.

He went off to Princeton, where he became Captain of the golf team, at a time when Ivy League golf matches were very big events indeed.   These schools would often not only play against each other, but also played matches against the best amateurs from other regions, as well.

In his senior year, he was named to the Greens Committee of the Princeton Golf Club, precisely at the time that Princeton was building their new golf course designed by Willie Dunn and revised by professional James Swan.  

After his return to Philadelphia, he joined Merion and played for the club in inter-club matches throughout the decade.   He also represented Philadelphia in amateur events against other major cities, including playing with Tillinghast, Griscom , and others against a NYC team that included CB Macdonald and Dev Emmet.   So, he knew all of those guys from years prior.

At the time his Committee was selected at Merion, he was already a grizzled veteran of early Philadephia golf, but the one fact that I think is important here is that the five members of the committee were made up of 5 of the 6 best golfers (by handicap) out of the several hundred golf members at Merion.   These guys were considered "experts" by virtue of their playing skills, and one NY Times article I have lists Wilson among other "experts" in the Met region (where he did most of his early playing).

One article mentions later that Wilson not only toured the best courses overseas, but that he had played all the best courses on these shores.   Who knows...although we don't have records of it, perhaps he was an early Matt Ward, who simply loved traveling and playing on different courses?   Perhaps THIS is where he was in the year 1910?

This is what William Evans wrote in October, 1913;

Hugh I. Wilson, chairman of the Green Committee at the Merion Cricket Club and who is responsible for the wonderful links on the Main Line, has been Mr. Geist’s right hand man and has laid out the Sea View course.  Mr. Wilson some years ago before the new course at Merion was constructed visited the most prominent courses here and in Great Britain and has no superior as a golf architect.   Those who have visited the new course have commented warmly on its construction.”

In the February 1916 issue of American Golfer, AW Tillinghast writing as "Hazard" wrote the following;

"Certainly a reference to the Merion Course over which the championship of 1916 will be played, must be of interest. The course was opened in 1912, and the plans were decided upon only after a critical review of the great courses in Great Britain and America."

In any case, to think that Wilson would have been appointed to that position by those intelligent men in that prestigious club without either the interest or the acumen to succeed is to me just a very wrong-headed view of history.

Here's a few relevant articles.   The first lists those "experts" who qualified for regional tournaments in the Metropolitan District.   Wilson is an 8 at the time, which by virtue of comparison was very good indeed as CBM was a 4 and Dev Emmet a 7.



Here's one of him playing on the Philly team against CBM and others;

[JESII]

I think it's a little unrealistic to think they would have plucked this guy out of the insurance business with no prior experience if he hadn't demonstrated a real interest and ability in this area during the months and maybe years before.

MIke,

What do you think I meant when I typed this about 45 minutes ago?

[Mike Cirba]

Jim,

I'm wholeheartedly agreeing with you.  

See...I'm not just summarily disagreeing with everything you say!!    

Wilson also had the misfortune of not being a self-promoter, and articles said he preferred to operate out of the spotlight.   He also made very humble and self-effacing comments like "our knowledge of construction and agronomy was that of an average club member", which was clearly negative hyperbole considering that Griscom was likely involved in the construction of the original course at Merion based on two articles I have, Toulmin was one of three men who designed the Belmont course, Francis was an engineer and surveyor by trade, and Wilson had served on the Greens Committee at Princeton.    All were men who had played golf at what was considered an "expert" level at that time, all had over a decade of golf experience, all were well-traveled, and all were exceptionally bright.   

Of course, no self-effacing comment goes unpunished, and that was turned against Wilson here as we all know.

[JESII]

Now we're making progress...until Macwood challenges the notion of newspapermen calling them experts...

[Mike Cirba]

Well, Jim...I think I just posted a NY Times article where Wilson and others who qualified for Championship play in the MET were called "experts", but I guess we'll see what happens next. 

[Mike Cirba]

I don't think much can be proven one way or another from Wilson's letters simply because they refer so little to architectural work, even during the period when they were undeniably doing architectural work...the main item to keep in mind regarding the course was not finalized prior to April 1911 is Lesley's own words to the Board in April regarding the rearranging of the course after the March visit to NGLA and the subsequent visit by CBM and Wigham. M & W's approval of a particular plan at that point should make it clear that the committee was not locked into a specific 18 holes prior to that.

My position has always been that the routing process began well before then, and I've become more convinced of this after thinking about Lloyd's role in HDC through the summer/fall of 1910.


Jim,

I really don't think we are that far off in our theories.   Let me tell you what I think.

I agree with you that it would seem practical and even intuitive that they would be out there prior,even before the committee was formalized.   After all, these men were the leading golfers in the club, and the most proficient golfers in the club.   Whether they did some stick routings or at least envisioned or even drew golf holes seems very possible.

I think this time period could include the time that Wilson referred to as "after laying out many golf courses", when his report was read in April 1911, although one argument against that is the fact that he was reporting "for the Committee", so strictly his report should have only been about Committee activities.

I also think that Cuyler's advice about the boundary lines not being fixed and Lloyd's subsequent purchase of the entire 161 acres in Dec 1910 indicates very strongly to me that no finalized golf course planning was completed at that time.

Similarly, I think that the November 1910 Land Plan is simply an approximation of the location of the course with a curving road running the length of the Johnson Farm.   The fact that the triangle measures 100x310 instead of 130x190 indicates to me strong evidence as well that the Francis Swap hadn't happened as of yet, as does Francis' own words where he tells us that he was "added" to the committee and then goes on to describe the work that took place on that committee

I also think it might have been a bit tough for them to route holes on the Dallas Estate prior to the purchase of that land.   Was it fenced?   Did they have access??   Did they want to tip anyone off, or was the statement that Freeman was going to build an estate on that a ruse to throw off those who might want to kite the price?

So, I think we're in agreement that they were probably working out there looking at possible golf holes in the latter part of 1910, and the formalization of the committee shortly after probably blended a bit over time.

I think we both agree that Francis at some point recognized that the area for 15 & 16 was not wide enough and that part of what he did was widen the top of the road by borrowing from the bottom.

I think we're in agreement that Hugh Wilson and his committee were indeed responsible for the routing, and the design, with the helpful advice of Macdonald and Whigham.

I think we're in agreement that the Committee had some revelation during their visit to NGLA that caused them to narrow their focus on the possible routings for the golf course, seemingly moving from "many golf courses", to "five different plans".

I think we're in agreement that they probably determined during that visit that CBM come down in the spring and go over the land again with them and help them reach the finish line.

So, I think other than some minor details about the Francis Swap as relates to the Nov 1910 Land Plan we're pretty much copacetic...would you agree?

And honestly, I don't think Tom MacWood is far from our opinions as well, if he could just get over his disbelief about why they would have selected Wilson in the first place.

[TEPaul]

"Relying on an iota of factual evidence that Wilson was out there prior to 1911 in order to admit he likely was is exactly the same as Tom Macwood saying that Wilson's committee appointment in 1911 precludes him from being out there prior to that...do you see my point? You both would like to read certain things strictly and take some leeway with other things."



Sully:

I do see your point but only if you're talking about the way you and Tom MacWood are going about this. You say that despite no actual factual material evidence that Wilson was out there in 1910 you'd still like to discuss this as if he was, and on the flip side of this Tom MacWood wants to preclude a discussion that Wilson was out there in 1910 and/or before that given Wilson said his committee was not appointed until Jan 1911.

I feel we should just discuss this subject in the context of the actual and factual material evidence we do have and not speculate beyond that.

Now that MacWood has found these agronomy letters it is just amazing to see the assumptions and presumptions he tries to read into them that they do not say or even imply.

I've been reading those things for 7-8 years now and even though they do impart some interesting information about Merion in certain ways I'm afraid in the context of its architecture they really just don't. Wilson basically just didn't discuss architecture with Piper or Oakley at least not in these early years. Later on in the late teens and early 1920s he and Alan did but it was for many other reasons.

But the way MacWood goes about trying to force various meanings and interpretations into some of this material is really very disappointing to me, actually it even gets comical. It is definitely NOT the way a competent historian or competent historical analyst would ever go about it, in my opinion!

[JESII]

David got roasted for presuming agreement on Jeff a few pages ago in a similar fashion to your presumed agreements here.

I think the people that became the committee were out on the property beginning in late June 1910 and they had a rough routing prepared in advance of the November Map being drawn. Rough draft is to imply that they knew where they were going but did not know exactly how much room they needed. Knowing the final specific was obviously vital before purchasing the exact land BECAUSE this was a real estate deal so the property line was going to be shrink-wrapped to the very edges of the property as soon as they were determined.

Feel free to decipher or agreed points out of that.

Lloyd's capitalization plan in 1910 is the most intriguing thing to me right now.

[Mike Cirba]

Jim,

At this point I'm not going to say I think your idea is wrong or impossible, but I am interested in hearing anything more you have to support it, including any speculation about the land deal.

So, feel free to speculate and I'll be happy to tell you where I think we agree and where we don't.    

Seriously, I'm just trying to figure out where we all (including Tom MacWood) agree and where we don't, because I think the areas of disagreement are much narrower today than they ever have been.

EDIT**  One question that comes immediately to mind is this;   Why do you think Merion waited from July 1910 until March 1911 to send soil samples as Macdonald had advised them to do in the very beginning?   This certainly doesn't seem to indicate a lot of activity during that stretch other than on the real estate front.

[TEPaul]

"I think the people that became the committee were out on the property beginning in late June 1910 and they had a rough routing prepared in advance of the November Map being drawn. Rough draft is to imply that they knew where they were going but did not know exactly how much room they needed. Knowing the final specific was obviously vital before purchasing the exact land BECAUSE this was a real estate deal so the property line was going to be shrink-wrapped to the very edges of the property as soon as they were determined."


Sully:

I realize you think that, and I may even feel there is some logic in it. The only problem is neither you nor I have a single iota of actual or factual material evidence to support that point. But if you think you do please tell me what it is.



"Feel free to decipher or agreed points out of that."


Other than what I just said, I really don't see the point in doing that.



"Lloyd's capitalization plan in 1910 is the most intriguing thing to me right now.'

I agree with you on that. But to really make a sensible and cogent argument for what it all involved there may need to be some more factual material added to the analysis of it. Otherwise it will just continue on with blatant non-productive speculation.

The complexity of the financial arrangements he was involved with on the other side of this issue from HDC are pretty impressive----eg the complexities of the creation and evolution of MCCGA. It is amazing to me the financing levels these guys added to this stuff----eg First Mortgage Bonds, Second Mortgage Bonds, corporate stock technicalities in setting up the financial arrangement between MCC and MCCGA, the way the lease factored into this and the Sinking Fund dependent on annual membership dues et al. It's definitely not as if they just thought to have MCC buy the land and do the course and just own it.

But one thing I certainly am gleaning from all this actual material is that Lloyd was not exactly waiting for MCC Board permission to start doing some of the things he did do for both HDC and MCC and MCCGA. In at least 2-3 important examples by the time MCC's lawyer, T. DeWitt Cuyler, got around to writing MCC president Evans what he felt should happen, Lloyd had already done it! It was almost as if Lloyd said after the fact; "Oh by the way, DeWitt, don't forget to tell Evans." 
 
 
 

[DMoriarty]

So let's see now, you guys are
-- assuming Wilson was out there before 1911, even though he strongly intimates that he did not get involved until 1911, and that the first evidence of him doing anything is February 1911.  (Just what are you assuming he was doing out there, aside from trespassing on land Merion did not yet even control?)
-- assuming Wilson was wrong when he said that, in March 1911 he knew no more than the average clubman,
-- you must be assuming he was also wrong when he said that CBM gave them a good start in laying out the course,
-- so you must also be assuming that Alan Wilson was wrong when he said that CBM's help on the layout was of great help and value. 
-- you assume Francis couldn't have meant it when he specifically described the exact land traded for and also described the land given up.
-- you assume Whigham was exaggerating or feeble when he stated that Merion was a Macdonald course.   
-- and of course Mike even assumes CBM was lying when when he described how NGLA was created, which means you must also be assuming that Behr and others who reported how NGLA was created were wrong as well.
-- surely you assume the newspapers were wrong when they said, before Wilson was back from his trip, that Merion was based on the great holes abroad.
-- and findlay must also have been wrong when wrote that CBM was responsible for the layout of at least some of the  holes at Merion. 
-- and lets not forget, you must assume that the supposedly arrogant and self-centered CBM was out bragging about a course you assume he had little to do with, even supposedly going over the plans with Tillinghast. 
-- And you assume that there is no reason that Tillinghast was talking to CBM about Merion, and not Wilson.
-- And you assume that the fact that it was Macdonald who approved the final layout plan is meaningless, and assume that the fact that it presented to the board as the one approved by CBM probably means less.
-- And then there is the fact that Wilson isn't even mentioned in any of this.  You assume that couldn't mean anything.

No wonder you guys have so much time to post.   You just assume the facts you need to make your case!   

[TEPaul]

"EDIT**  One question that comes immediately to mind is this;   Why do you think Merion waited from July 1910 until March 1911 to send soil samples as Macdonald had advised them to do in the very beginning?   This certainly doesn't seem to indicate a lot of activity during that stretch other than on the real estate front."


One thing I really don't understand about the thinking of some on here is why exactly some think MCC was in such a great rush to get this course done. As far as I can tell they really didn't have any time constraint goal of any kind to meet. All they really needed to do was make a fairly global deal with HDC with that 338 acres and Lloyd took care of that since he was going there anyway with his Allgates that he bought and built beginning in 1910.

Another thing most on here have probably misinterpreted is that MCC had basically lost their lease of the Haverford course for some reason. Nothing of the kind was true. Matter of fact in April 1910 they renewed their lease for that course for five more years until April 1915.

And I think the other thing that most all miss when they imply Wilson was a novice and wonder why MCC tapped him is the fact that apparently both Hugh and Alan Wilson were some pretty keen experts on plants and flowers and such as Lloyd probably was too, not even considering that Mrs. Lloyd was the president of the Garden Club of America! Allgates ended up having some of the most impressive gardens in America.

[Mike Cirba]

David,

Rather than re-address each of your points which are either misrepresented, misinterpreted, wildly exaggerated, or simply mistaken, I would simply ask why you think at this point you've gotten so little traction or agreement from others for the validity of your theories or concur with your interpretation of the evidence?

I believe Patrick as a Macdonald groupie may still buy into it, but even Tom MacWood says he doesn't believe any course was routed prior to December, 1910, Jim Kennedy says "of course Hugh Wilson designed Merion", or words to that effect, and Shivas has long since moved on since the MCC Minutes were introduced.

I realize you've put a lot of time and effort into your essay, and as I mentioned the other day, I think it is a good study overall with reasonable conclusions based on the evidence you had at hand and it really caused a lot of other research to happen that wouldn't have otherwise, some of it even having great residual benefit in ways none of us ever dreamed and I thank you for that.

On the other hand, there are still some open questions that a few of us have been trying to sort out here, but I think the great majority of folks here are comfortable overall with about 90% of the original facts, and I would think at some point you yourself would question why that is, if everything looks so obviously different to you?

At this juncture, I've presented all the evidence I have, or am aware of, including what the MCC Minutes say about Macdonald and the visit to NGLA, and his subsequent visit to Merion, and I rest my case.

Over and over I keep coming back to the words used by everyone back then..."Advice" and "Suggestions".

I think that was Macdonald's role, and it was acknowledged, appreciated, and if modern history didn't carry that part of the story forward adequately then you've certainly done your part to correct that situation, and you should probably be commended for that part of this whole saga.   I've learned a lot despite the acrimony, and I hope you have as well.

[Tom MacWood]

I may have missed it, but I don't believe anyone answered my question directly: Did Wilson request a soil analysis in preparation of routing the golf course or constructing the golf course?

[Tom MacWood]

The only exception in 1910 is HH Barker who did what he called a rough sketch of some part of that property but not for MCC but for Connell of HDC.

He referred to it as a "rough sketch"?

[Tom MacWood]

Now we're making progress...until Macwood challenges the notion of newspapermen calling them experts...

Based on Mike's articles it looks like there were about 150 experts living in Philadelphia none of whom anyone in their right mind would select to design their high profile golf course especially when you had two legitimate experts at your disposal.

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

Merion made it VERY clear, as did NGLA in the related story, that they didn't WANT and didn't USE a professional, which would eliminate Barker as a candidate.

Macdonald was opening NGLA and trying to get it in better shape during the second half of 1910 after his "coming out" tournament in July of that year.   Merion is fortunate he was able to make a single day site visit in June 1910 followed by a single-day visit in April of 1911.

That article is the Metropolitan Golf Association if you bother to read it, and includes guys like Travis, CBM, and Emmet, as Wilson was playing out of Princeton at the time.   I'm surprised you aren't aware that anyone with proficiency in the game in those fledgling days were often called "experts", such as the 5 lowest handicaps out of a few hundred golf members in a club who were selected to design their new course.

[TEPaul]

"So let's see now, you guys are
-- assuming Wilson was out there before 1911, even though he strongly intimates that he did not get involved until 1911, and that the first evidence of him doing anything is February 1911.  (Just what are you assuming he was doing out there, aside from trespassing on land Merion did not yet even control?)
-- assuming Wilson was wrong when he said that, in March 1911 he knew no more than the average clubman,
-- you must be assuming he was also wrong when he said that CBM gave them a good start in laying out the course,
-- so you must also be assuming that Alan Wilson was wrong when he said that CBM's help on the layout was of great help and value.  
-- you assume Francis couldn't have meant it when he specifically described the exact land traded for and also described the land given up.
-- you assume Whigham was exaggerating or feeble when he stated that Merion was a Macdonald course.  
-- and of course Mike even assumes CBM was lying when when he described how NGLA was created, which means you must also be assuming that Behr and others who reported how NGLA was created were wrong as well.
-- surely you assume the newspapers were wrong when they said, before Wilson was back from his trip, that Merion was based on the great holes abroad.
-- and findlay must also have been wrong when wrote that CBM was responsible for the layout of at least some of the  holes at Merion.  
-- and lets not forget, you must assume that the supposedly arrogant and self-centered CBM was out bragging about a course you assume he had little to do with, even supposedly going over the plans with Tillinghast.  
-- And you assume that there is no reason that Tillinghast was talking to CBM about Merion, and not Wilson.
-- And you assume that the fact that it was Macdonald who approved the final layout plan is meaningless, and assume that the fact that it presented to the board as the one approved by CBM probably means less.
-- And then there is the fact that Wilson isn't even mentioned in any of this.  You assume that couldn't mean anything.

No wonder you guys have so much time to post.   You just assume the facts you need to make your case!"







David Moriarty:

I would definitely call that some deceptive legalistic dialectic OVERLOAD!


I don't need to go through some fallacious logic laundry list like that!

I feel I only need to offer A SINGLE piece of actual and factual material evidence from MCC's archive that YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF when you wrote your essay!

TO WIT:

The Wilson Committee Report to the MCC Board meeting of April 19, 1911 when it was reported they:

"Laid out numerous courses on the land....then went to NGLA (and there is no mention at all in that report or Wilson's letter to Oakley that Merion East's plans were discussed while at NGLA) and then came back and rearranged the course into five different plans!" (paraphrased)

WHAT IN THE WORLD DO YOU THINK THE WILSON COMMITTEE DID ALL THAT THEMSELVES AT ARDMORE FOR IF THEY ALREADY HAD A ROUTED AND DESIGNED GOLF COURSE FROM 1910 TO JUST CONSTRUCT, as you claimed in your essay?


In other words, the Wilson Committee spent three months in the winter and early spring doing ALL THAT BEFORE they went INTO CONSTRUCTION!! NUMEROUS DIFFERENT COURSES.....FIVE DIFFERENT PLANS!!! What do you think they spent three months doing----eg rearranging stakes on the ground because they couldn't figure out Macdonald's routing and design??    

AND FOR WHAT??? WHAT DO you think they did all THAT FOR?  


GOD ALMIGHTY it would be great if you two jerks would just give up on this preposterous and endless argument of yours about Merion! Are you two really THIS INSECURE?? IS it really THIS difficult to admit you were wrong abour some of your various and important premises because you JUST had insufficient research information when you contemplated and wrote THAT essay??

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

Actually, I don't think either one believes it any longer.   They really couldn't be rational thinkers and still believe in their original theories about Merion based on all the evidence that's been presented since then, and i do believe both David and Tom are quite intelligent and even rational.

As I mentioned the other day, I think they just enjoy thinking they are getting under your skin, which they are, and they will persist as long as they feel they are getting to you.

I think a calmer reaction is called for.   I'm sending you to India for meditation, fasting, and celibacy training, beginning tomorrow.    

[Mike Cirba]

Based on Mike's articles it looks like there were about 150 experts living in Philadelphia none of whom anyone in their right mind would select to design their high profile golf course especially when you had two legitimate experts at your disposal.



Tom,

Actually, Wilson was among 73 golfers out of over 2500 in the MET district who had a handicap of 8 or better.

That's somewhere around the top 2-3% of all golfers in the largest section of the country at that time.

I'd say the Captain of the Princeton Golf team who served on the Princeton Golf Club's Green Committee at the time would have been deemed an expert in 1901 and I'm sure he didn't forget much a decade later.

[TEPaul]

Mike:

I do understand what you're saying in that last post.

I've practically got those Wilson and P&O letters commited to memory having read them all so often for the last eight years and the way I've seen MacWood attempt to pull meaning out of what they say that isn't even remotely there finally convinced me that that person is not someone that any rational mind on the history of golf course architecture would want to try to have an intelligent conversation with.

And by that I would caution you from continuing to try.

Moriarty is a different matter, in my opinion. I don't think he's stupid like MacWood----I just think he is an inveterate arguer who is sort of constitutionally incapable of admitting he is or ever has been wrong about anything.

That he said about Merion once and sometimes continues to say that he actually wants to learn something about the history of Merion is actually the biggest joke of all that he continues to try to play on all of us!!  

This is a pretty good website and it would probably be fairly efficient if it wasn't for those two. Actually there are a couple of others I would throw into that description but they don't deal with this subject and I ignore them anyway, never really getting into their threads or subjects or issues.

[Tom MacWood]

Mike:

I do understand what you're saying in that last post.

I've practically got those Wilson and P&O letters commited to memory having read them all so often for the last eight years and the way I've seen MacWood attempt to pull meaning out of what they say that isn't even remotely there finally convinced me that that person is not someone that any rational mind on the history of golf course architecture would want to try to have an intelligent conversation with.

And by that I would caution you from continuing to try.

Moriarty is a different matter, in my opinion. I don't think he's stupid like MacWood----I just think he is an inveterate arguer who is sort of constitutionally incapable of admitting he is or ever has been wrong about anything.

That he said about Merion once and sometimes continues to say that he actually wants to learn something about the history of Merion is actually the biggest joke of all that he continues to try to play on all of us!!  

This is a pretty good website and it would probably be fairly efficient if it wasn't for those two. Actually there are a couple of others I would throw into that description but they don't deal with this subject and I ignore them anyway, never really getting into their threads or subjects or issues.

TEP
I may be stupid, but Lloyd & Co. were not, and selecting an inexperienced, untested, insurance salesman to design your golf course would be the height of stupidity.

[Tom MacWood]

Based on Mike's articles it looks like there were about 150 experts living in Philadelphia none of whom anyone in their right mind would select to design their high profile golf course especially when you had two legitimate experts at your disposal.



Tom,

Actually, Wilson was among 73 golfers out of over 2500 in the MET district who had a handicap of 8 or better.

That's somewhere around the top 2-3% of all golfers in the largest section of the country at that time.

I'd say the Captain of the Princeton Golf team who served on the Princeton Golf Club's Green Committee at the time would have been deemed an expert in 1901 and I'm sure he didn't forget much a decade later.

Of those 73 golfers which would choose to design your golf course? Do you think Wilson's Princeton captaincy in 1901 is what convinced Lloyd he was the right man for the job?

[Tom MacWood]

Did Wilson request a soil analysis in preparation of routing the golf course or constructing the golf course?

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