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Tom_Doak

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Re: What makes a fine uphill hole ?
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2009, 07:24:36 PM »
The best uphill hole in the world is the 8th at Crystal Downs.  You hit over a dip in front of the tee to a rising fairway with another dip in it ... then you hit the second shot off a plateau up to a rising fairway ... and the third shot is uphill to a green set into a sidehilll.  Somehow along the way (partly because it spreads the climb over 550 yards) you do not realize you have climbed well over 50 feet from tee to green!

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes a fine uphill hole ?
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2009, 12:10:38 AM »
It's funny, but off the top of my head I can't think of many (any?) uphill opening par 4s. I can think of a few with downhill tee shots that have uphill 2nds, but not anything that is a steady climb from tee to green.

As mentioned, Philadelphia Cricket opens with an uphill hole.

Conewango Valley Club opens with a fantastic uphill par four that presents a stout challenge right out of the gate.  I recall it as the hardest hole on the golf course, which makes me wonder: What other courses open with their toughest hole?

WW

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes a fine uphill hole ?
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2009, 04:02:38 AM »
I've played a few uphill holes where the drive is blind up to a plateau, and that seems to work?

I think the key is how you percieve the rise and how you can be distracted from this? If you just had a gentle rise and it was all before you visible from the tee you will percieve it as a bit of a long slog, and probably think it more uphill than it actually is? As others have mentioned, doglegs, a series of knobs or plateaus and such like, all help give you something else to think about rather than just the heartattack hill like slog!

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Emil Weber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes a fine uphill hole ?
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2009, 04:05:56 AM »
In his review of the Plantation corse at Kapalua, Ran says: "The 3rd, 4th, 9th , and 10th holes are most appealing examples of uphill architecture. Combine those holes with the unforgettable stretch from the 13th tee to the 16th green where the golfer climbs 200 feet without realising it, and the golfer appreciates he is witnessing the work of the finestdesign team in golf today",

so obviously Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw are aware of what makes great uphill holes. You better ask them, bcause I hav no idea :D ;).

Doug Siebert

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Re: What makes a fine uphill hole ?
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2009, 03:55:44 PM »
It's funny, but off the top of my head I can't think of many (any?) uphill opening par 4s. I can think of a few with downhill tee shots that have uphill 2nds, but not anything that is a steady climb from tee to green.


While its a par 5, Crail's Craighead has a pretty strong uphill opener.  I played it in 2001, I hear it has been modified since then - not sure exactly what they did to it.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Mark Pearce

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Re: What makes a fine uphill hole ?
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2009, 05:01:48 PM »
Doug,

The first at Craighead is pretty flat.  It has never occurred to me that it is uphill.  The 11th on the Balcomie is an uphill par 5.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Harvey Dickens

Re: What makes a fine uphill hole ?
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2009, 06:57:07 PM »
I like a gradual rise in the hole. It makes sense to me that a par 5 is easier to design since you have the distance to use to your advantage. I am thinking of a hole at my home course where the tee is elevated to the same height as the fairway at about 200 yards from the green with a valley in between. The hole plays a little over 500 yards, so your tee shot is landing in a fairly flat area. The fairway rises at that point and flattens out around the 100 yard mark. If you want to lay up you have a 150 yard shot, if you want to go for it, its no problem to carry the hill. In effect, the uphill is only a visual distraction as you can see the top of the flag from the lowpoint in the fairway.


Doug Siebert

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Re: What makes a fine uphill hole ?
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2009, 02:05:43 AM »
Mark,

Perhaps I'm thinking of another course with the par 5 opener I can see in my mind's eye though at the moment I can't think of which one it might be.  I know for sure it was in Scotland though.  Or maybe Ireland :)
My hovercraft is full of eels.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes a fine uphill hole ?
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2009, 02:16:33 AM »
It's funny, but off the top of my head I can't think of many (any?) uphill opening par 4s. I can think of a few with downhill tee shots that have uphill 2nds, but not anything that is a steady climb from tee to green.


While its a par 5, Crail's Craighead has a pretty strong uphill opener.  I played it in 2001, I hear it has been modified since then - not sure exactly what they did to it.

Lahinch,
Southerndown -uphill 1st holes
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Lyne Morrison

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Re: What makes a fine uphill hole ?
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2009, 06:26:40 AM »

Folks, thanks all for the feedback and examples.

I feel one can’t help but admire the apparent ease with which the truly gifted architects manage to capture the golfer’s imagination on uphill holes while at the same time skilfully taking care of the details – the visual elements, the shape and movement of the ground, as many of you have mentioned. Might I also add, the placement and scale of hazards and the relationship of these to both the fairway and green site.

I think as golfers we tend to respond positively when this is done well and switch off quickly when it isn’t. 

Good to hear your thoughts, cheers - Lyne

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