[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Here's the 5-star List:

Belgrade Lakes (Maine) G.C. (New on the list)
Blackwolf Run G.C. (River), Kohler, Wis.
The Broadmoor G.C. (East), Colorado Springs, CO (New on the list)
Bulle Rock, Havre de Grace, Md.
Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog), La Ramona, Dominican Republic
The Challenge at Manele, Lana City, Hawaii
Grand View Lodge Resort (The Pines), Nisswa, MN (New on the list)
Kiawah Island (SC) Resorts (The Ocean Course )
Pebble Beach (CA) G. Links
Pinehurst (NC) Resort & C.C. (No. 2)
Timber Ridge G.C., East Lansing, MI (New on the list and a course I played quite a bit while in college as a buddy of mine bartended there...)
Whistling Straits G.C. (Straits), Sheboygan, WI

Here's who moved out from the 2000 list:

Bay Harbor G.C., Bay Harbor, Mi
Blackwolf Run G.C. (Meadows Valley Course)
Coeur d'Alene Resort G.C., Coeur d'Alene, ID
Highlands Links G.C., Nova Scota, Canada
The Links at Crowbush Cove, Prince Edward Island, Canada
Pinon Hills G.C., Farmington, NM
St. Ives G.C., Stanwood, MI
World Woods G.C. (Pine Barrens Course), Brooksville, FL

Any thoughts?

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

BTW, both Osprey Point and Cougar Point moved from 4 to 4 1/2 stars while my favorite, Turtle Point, remained at 4 stars (do mostly to the clubhouse being under construction when this reader's poll was conducted .  

[MJB Jr.]

I agree that Crowbush Cove should not be a 5 star. Do my eyes deceive me or is that a course in Maine that I see on the list?. Belgrade Lakes designed by Clive Clark, will put that first on my list this spring when the snow melts up they-a.

http://www.belgradelakesgolf.com/course/

[SPDB]

How in the world Belgrade Lakes replaces Highlands Links, Pinon Hills and Pine Barrens is beyond me.  

[Anthony_Nysse]

Timber Ridge, a Jerry Matthews design, isn't that good of a golf course, especially when compaired to St. Ives, probably Matthew's best course. TR is nice, but not a 5 star.

[Craig Rokke]

I don't put a whole lot of stock in those ratings, but I still buy it every time it comes out. Really good courses are at 3* +-(Talking Stick, High Pointe)and the 5*'s, and especially 4* courses get more watered down with each edition.

[Craig Rokke]

The Cascades? I'm surprised about The Highlands.

[A_Clay_Man]

It seems like a natural that the big dogs gotta eat.

I agree with the removal of the 5th star from and WWPB and reluctantly (not really) my hew home course PH. The corporate management techniques used at WW has destroyed the turf and made it less of the experience than it was. And Pinon never really deserved the fifth but because of its low green fees was awarded. IMHO

I find it interesting that both of these are off the beaten path courses with relatively sane fees. I wonder if other replacee's suffer from this apparant inferiority complex?

Or does the big dog gotta eat?

Could someone compare the green fees of the courses listed with those delisted? Thank you

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

No way Cape Breton should have fallen off, it is better than the River course and that is saying a lot.

As for that list, there are 12 Five-Star courses and tonnes of 4 or 4 1/2 ratings....?

Not taking anything away from the Ocean Course Mike, it exemplifies 5-Star.

[K.Hegland]

I just can't believe Timber Ridge is a 5 star, I didn't even have to page down and knew Tony Nysse would already have a comment on it.  I'm not taking anything away from it, but five stars is high, if you look at the list its in with is just doesn't fit, I would never put Timber Ridge in the same catergory as a Pebble, Pinehurst, or Whistling Striats, and I'm from MSU

[BryanC]

I haven't played the Pines @ Grand View Lodge in about 3 years, but if it's still similar to what it was then, it should be as far away from that list as possible. It's not even the best course owned by the Grand View Lodge Resort, so how it made this list is beyond me.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Kyle,
  you're a keeper. How was the trip to "Ar-kansas" I'll give you a shout this weekend
T

[BCrosby]

I don't understand these golf resort rankings.

Does a good shrimp cocktail count as much as a good par three?

Does chocolate on my pillow offset artificial bunkering?

Does a well appointed spa mean we will overlook an unwalkable course?

And how does Kiawah rank higher than Sea Island as a resort destination?  

Just asking.

Bob  

[SPDB]

Bob - Are these resort rankings? I had assumed they were until I noticed that Bulle Rock was included (no lodging).

These rankings, and the criteria that produced them, are a mystery to me.

[David Wigler]

I have a comment about the list.  Timber Ridge as a 5-star golf course may be the single stupidest ranking in the history of golf course ranking.  This makes Pebble Beach getting ahead of Pine Valley look like a Mensa decision.  Heck, Golf Digests last state-by-state rankings had nine public courses in Michigan's top twenty-five and Timber Ridge wasn't one of them.  You know why?  Because it did not belong.  Timber Ridge is not in the top twenty public courses in Michigan, let alone the top twelve public courses in the country.  Timber Ridge might be the third best public golf course in East Lansing (Behind Hawk's Hollow and arguably behind Forest Acres) and East Lansing is not exactly a Mecca of golf.

Ron Whitten - if you are reading this thread, please tell us that Timber Ridge was a typo.  How can a course not make the top 25 in the state and yet be in the top 12 in the country.  Please tell me that you have seen Timber Ridge and realize it is a poorly maintained, poorly routed, tree encroached piece of averageness.  Timber Ridge is the definition of a Doak 4.  Anyone who took a trip to East Lansing to see this course, based on your magazine should have the right to sue Golf Digest.  On the bright side, you now have a litmus test to cull your overgrown heard of raters.  If Timber Ridge is not a typo and did not buy their spot with a promise of huge advertising dollars, then you should go back through the rankings and immediately remove anyone who put Timber ridge ahead of World Woods, Arcadia Bluffs, Cuscowilla, PGA West and about 300 other public courses.  

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Keep in mind, "Places to Play" is a reader's poll.  It's not an architectural ranking.  Every other year GD puts a survey in the magazine of its subscribers and they rate (not rank) the courses that they've played in the last two years.  The poll takes into account amenities like clubhouses, course conditions, friendliness of the staff, affordability, etc.  Golf course architecture has a very limited appeal to Joe Sixpack and Betty Buick.  They're rating courses as purely an enjoyable afternoon (or morning) walk in the park...

[Mike Cirba]

A point of clarification...

Golf Digest "raters" do not compile the "Places To Play" volume.

Golf Digest "readers" do.

If that silly list isn't a cautionary note about the knowledge of golf course architecture among the general public, I don't know what is.  

Suffice to say that conditioning and experience are probably the determining factors.  In fact, I'd be interested to see the criteria (I believe there are five) used to make such determinations.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Here's the reader's criteria for rating courses:

·      Overall Rating.  What was your general impression of the day, starting the moment you stepped out of your car until you put your clubs back in the trunk?
·      Course Condition.  Is the course in great shape, or is it run down?  Take into consideration normal playing conditions.  Discount extremes caused by unusual weather during the year.
·      Pace of Play.  Can you play this course quickly, or do you feel as though you need to bring a book to read between shots?
·      Service.  Were you treated like a king or queen?  Look at the overall service extended by the facility on a regular basis.
·      Value.  Was it worth the money you paid?  Do you think you got a bargain, or were you overcharged?

Each criterion should be rated on a scale of 1 to 5, as follows:
1-Poor
2-Acceptable
3-Good
4-Very Good
5-Outstanding

[Anthony_Nysse]

Mr. Wigler,
  Just before I logged in, I was wondering when you were going to chime in, being on who has played alot of Michigan golf. I'm glad that your feelings are the same as Kyle and mine. The rates that they charge to play that course should not make it a place to play. The conditoning isn't the greatest and to put it ahead of Arcadia, Black Lake, Treetops, HawksHead, Bay Harbor...and those are jsut in MI alone!! This just goes to show that GD rankings are a joke. I did learn this year that there are several new GD panalists that are connected with Michigan State and they also have ties to Timber Ridge...could the pull of these individuals have had an effect on TR being in the top 12? Just a thought

[Mike Cirba]

Thanks, Mike...

In some ways, that's a huge relief.  

It's nice to know that Golf Digest does not list even one criteria that asks the reader to consider the actual golf course architecture, strategic interest, routing, features, etc..  

No wonder Bulle Rock is a *****

[David Wigler]

Mike,

I did not realize it was a reader’s poll.  Does that mean that an enterprising marketing director at a piece of mediocrity like Timber Ridge could buy a whole bunch of magazines and stuff the ballot box with 5's.  Alternatively, is it just for subscribers?

If it is the later, then I have a great idea for a cross promotion.  Using the fact that their subscribers made Timber Ridge a five, Golf Digest should call Pampers and have them include a sample bib with the next issue of Golf Digest as it is clear that their subscribership are drooling morons when it comes to golf courses.  

For what it is worth, Timber Ridge has an average clubhouse, poor amenities, mediocre conditions, etc.  The only place where Timber Ridge excels is quality of Beer Cart girls.  Timber Ridge is right by the MSU campus and on my last visit, the Beer Cart Girls were gorgeous.  Maybe that has become GD's newest criteria.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Well, Dave, that criteria has always worked for me... Believe me, back in the late 70s and early 80s (when I crammed my 4-year degree into 6 years), the MSU coeds were unbelieveable.  Those were some great years...!

[A_Clay_Man]

Believing it's a "readers List" is like believing Arafat when he condemns the suicide bombing or that he wants to be Martyred.

If this were truely a readers poll the list would be comprised of only courses from huge demographic areas.

Another clarification is needed to understand exactly how and which reader is being polled.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Trust me,
  The women of MSU are still looking great in their green and white....probably a little less green and white from when you guys were there!!

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

From my understanding, the poll is included only in magazines going to subscribers.  It isn't included in newsstand copies.  Large demographic areas or small, I would imagine if a course gets at least a minimum number of ratings, it gets included.  Every course that is rated comes out in book form that can be purchased at most book retailers.

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