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Jay Flemma

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Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« on: July 23, 2009, 08:02:25 PM »
What was it that made the difference for Tom W?

I think it was the wind.  he proved he's still the greatest wind player in the world.  One day, it blew in the opposite direction of the prevail, the next two it blew at a strange crosswind.

Any other theories.

My heart is still broken for Watson.  Any other ending than that.

While we're at it, does Cink need to win another major in order not to go down as just that guy who screwed Watson and his march on history?

One last q...when did you think Watson had it sewn up...I thought for all the world when he hit he green on 16 he was home free.
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2009, 08:20:19 PM »
Quote from: Anthony Gray on July 14, 2009, 08:27:52 AM

  The changes make for a nice finish.

  15 is a difficult putting hole.

  16 may determine the tournament because the burn is way more in play now. Don't be surprised to see some lay ups.

  17  has potential for a three stroke swing amoungst the leaders.

  18 is no sure par. It looks to me that the stands guard the green too much. A safe play may be into the bleachers.

  May be an exciting finish. Will it live up to the finish at Carnoustie? Can't wait to see.

   Anthony



Prophetic?
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tom Jefferson

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2009, 08:26:30 PM »
Tom Watson's guile, confidence, desire, golf wisdom, and essentially pure attitude made the difference.

At least for me, Stewart Cink needs to do nothing; he has a very fine record as a golfer.

I never thought TW had it sewn up; the Championship is contested over 72 holes; there are thousands of examples of golfers not quite getting in the house................including Stewart Cink at Southern Hills.

Fine summer golf here at Bandon......misty mornings, two club winds in the afternoons.

Best,
Tom
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the pres

Mike_Young

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2009, 08:45:57 PM »
I think a lot of it is his brand of golf..he was not a range rat brought up to hit all shots at the pin and to evaluate everything on a video camera.....he could hit soft handed shots that didn't spin and could keep the ball between himself and the hole .....just a joy to watch the game played in such a fashion.....
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Chris Buie

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2009, 08:48:03 PM »
I didn't think he had it sewn up until he was standing in the middle of the 72nd fairway with a short iron in his hand.  At that point I thought he did have it sewn up.  I didn't think there was any way he would hit a short iron outside of pretty easy two putt range.
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Bob_Huntley

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2009, 08:48:51 PM »
I think what favored Tom Watson the most, was the slower speed of the greens compared to Stateside. His putting, until the last, was otherwordly.

One has to admire his attitude after the tournament, no excuses, no petulance and a well done to Stewart Cink, remembering Stewart's own disappointment at Southern Hills.

It would do every competitive high school and collegiate golfer to learn from Tom Watson when grace under pressure means.


Bob  
 
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Bob_Huntley

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2009, 08:50:34 PM »
Oops, what grace etc.,

Bob
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Peter Pallotta

Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2009, 08:56:18 PM »
At Sunningdale, Tom Watson was asked about the calls he's been getting re: his performance at Turnberry. Here's one of his answers:

"...The most touching thing was Jack Nicklaus calling me and saying, "Tom, I've never watched 18 holes in my life. I watched No. 1 to 18. 18, you hit two perfect shots. The ball should have stayed up," he said. I didn't know. Nobody told me that the ball was just barely just trickling over the green. And he said, "You know, you hit the right club for your third. It was the putter." And Jack doesn't patronise you, and he doesn't patronise me. That soothed the wound just a little bit."

Lovely story. Class acts, both of them. And maybe, just maybe, Jack was right...

Peter
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Mike_Young

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2009, 08:59:23 PM »
Bob,

“In life as in dance: Grace glides on blistered feet”
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jason Walker

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2009, 09:09:21 PM »
I think the crosswinds absolutely made a difference in the play for the field, not necessarily for just Watson.   Tom simply played amazing golf, wind be damned.
Cink sat next to my table at dinner Friday night.  Since my friends and I are all Univ of Georgia grads we felt compelled to buy him a drink.  :)  Needless to say, he was still feeling crappy and drinking coffee at 9PM, but during the conversation he said he felt very good about his play but he noticed something about Watson's demeanor that he felt was going to make him tough to beat come Sunday....obviously in hindsight very interesting.   In addition, he couldn't have been a nicer and engaging guy.  We bet Cink the next morning and followed him Sunday from 9 to the finish...he had a look of confidence that back nine I've never seen from the guy.
I think Cink finally removes the "chokin' dog" label and doesn't need anything else to take away from what has been an excellent career to date.
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Bob_Huntley

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2009, 09:24:36 PM »
Quote from: Mike_Young on July 23, 2009, 08:59:23 PM
Bob,

“In life as in dance: Grace glides on blistered feet”

Mike,

I have never heard that before, I love it.

What is its genesis?

Bob
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Mike_Young

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2009, 09:58:21 PM »
Quote from: Bob_Huntley on July 23, 2009, 09:24:36 PM
Quote from: Mike_Young on July 23, 2009, 08:59:23 PM
Bob,

“In life as in dance: Grace glides on blistered feet”

Mike,

I have never heard that before, I love it.

What is its genesis?

Bob

The poet  Alice Abrams...she has several Grace and dance poems
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2009, 10:45:27 PM »
The wind makes golf, that is why it is so pure on the links - it is spectacular to play and also to watch an old master at work.

The Open is such a special tournament, especially in the "right" conditions with a good wind blowing.

Watching someone feel their way around the course instead of seeing guys hitting PW 152 to the pin is such a nice respite from the usual PGA grind.

Links golf is just so much better - I guess because it is PURE golf.

TW is a jedi master.
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PThomas

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2009, 11:07:52 PM »
Quote from: Bob_Huntley on July 23, 2009, 08:48:51 PM
I think what favored Tom Watson the most, was the slower speed of the greens compared to Stateside. His putting, until the last, was otherwordly
 

I mentiond that earlier too Bob..

also, he just had a hell of a good week...what else can explain the near miracle he pulled off??

well, maybe one more thing:  he used the word "spiritual" to describe his wek there evern before Sunday's round
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2009, 01:16:37 AM »

moved to other thread.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 01:19:08 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
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Let's make GCA grate again!

cary lichtenstein

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2009, 02:45:49 AM »
To me, Watson won my heart.

He won the tournament as far as I am concerned. He gave us 4 days of thrills, 72 holes I sat on the edge of my chair.

I forgot about Tiger Woods completely on Sunday and Watson makes me think that Tiger's behaviour is babyish.

Score one for the ages.
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

PThomas

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2009, 09:35:20 PM »
he hadn't had a top 10 there in TWO DECADES!

what a performance
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Jim Nugent

Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2009, 06:12:12 AM »
Two years in a row, old-timers have nearly won the British Open.  Both were part-time golfers.  Both over 50.  Neither one played all that well in the few events they entered before the British Open.  Yet they nearly won what many consider the most important golf event in the world. 

Is this a sign that those two British Open courses are good?  Or is it a sign that they are lacking? 

I often hear that top tournaments are supposed to i.d. the best golfer.  Never sure exactly what that means.  But I think Watson and Norman would be marginal at best on the PGA tour.       



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Niall C

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2009, 06:17:43 AM »
Jim

I would suggest that it is the younger regular tour pros who are lacking. The game they play on a regular basis is much more one dimensional and I don't think a lot of them have the experience to manage their way round the links course the way some of the older guys can.

When it comes down to a bomb and guage set up then they are more in their element. Thats what they are used to and what they practice/train for. All IMHO of course.

Niall
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Jim Nugent

Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2009, 12:30:45 PM »
Niall, you may be right.  At the same time, the British Open has had some real surprise contenders/winners the past decade or so.  Ben Curtis, Paul Lawrie, Jean Van de Velde,  Todd Hamilton.  And now two golfers (Norman and Watson) who barely play competitive golf any more.  Do Van de Velde, Hamilton and Lawrie have more mulit-dimensional games than other pro's today? 

Makes me wonder if the courses themselves put more guys in the running. 
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Niall C

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Re: Turnberry - was it the crosswinds?
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2009, 12:57:08 PM »
Jim

Lawrie/Van de Velde were/are not bad players, both have played in the Ryder Cup. Lawrie would also have been very familiar with links golf. Ben Curtis now seems to be making his mark on the US tour and I recall the sainted Tom Watson remarking at the time that he wasn't surprised at Curtis winning and would be even less surprised if he won another Open. As for Hamilton, I think I'm right in saying he was doing well in Japan at the time he won his Open and since has moved back to the US and at least competed, so none of them are bad players.

Maybe the way to think about it is that the typical European/US tour venue suits mainly one style of player to the detriment of others, while links golf offers a chance to all sorts of ball strikers but the most important thing is their ability to manage their way round (IMO).

Niall
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