A Pictorial: St. Andrews!!! (18th Hole Discussion Now In Session)

[Tom_Doak]

Kyle:

I don't dislike either of those, but would not put them in the same company as the mound on #4 at St. Andrews, which is one of my favorite features in golf.  I just love that little knob and how it plays havoc with approach shots.  It would only work in America on a firm and fast course, of which there are few.

The only time I've tried to build a similar feature was on the sixth hole at The Legends (Heathland).  But, they couldn't mow it with a triplex, so they turned it into rough and stuck a bit of lovegrass on it, spoiling the intent completely.

[Rob Rigg]

Although many seem to consider the first a "weaker" hole at Pac Dunes - I absolutely love the mound that fronts the green (coming off the hill on the right) - the 4th at St Andrews is spectacular as it hides a portion of the green depending on where you are hitting in but not all of it. On a long approach it must cause major consternation and frustration as good but not great shots ricochet of it in random directions.

If this feature was used more than once or maybe twice during a round it might be a bit much - but I think it is great - especially if the course is "natural" so it has a feeling of not being contrived by the archie.

[Leo Barber]

Having just returned from 4 weeks playing the great Links Courses of Ireland and Britain I was particularly struck by the simplicity of golf in Scotland.  The courses are generally located literally right on the edge of the town - you walk out of the town and onto the first tee - you walk off the first green and straight onto the 2nd tee and this efficiency in designs continues through to the 18th.  You play 9 holes out and 9 holes back.  The courses are laid over the land and never forced on the land - the natural land obviously dictates the layout and blindness is embraced as is the kind of features seen here at the 4th with the pimple in front of the green.  Golf and golf courses are accessable and reasonably priced for all.  The Old Course embodied all these elements and was a delight to play.

[Kyle Henderson]

5th hole schematic: http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/old_guide2004/old_course_hole_guide_5.html

The 5th tee shot.



5th landing zone. Hell bunker (mostly in play for the 14th hole) is 90-degrees left of this position.



The famous Spectacles challenge second shots, protecting the lay-up/run-up zone 50-60 yards from the green.



A sizeable swale adds interest to the approach. There’s nothing more dramatic in recreational golf than waiting to see if your second shot carries the Spectacles (with a tailwind, in my case) and then waiting again to see if and where your ball will appear on or near the putting surface.



Unlike the previous double greens, the inward hole (13th) plays to the back rather than the left side of the 5th green with respect to outward golfers (pan right to see the 5th flag). You won’t find many greens of this immensity. I was able to get up and down from the prominent greenside bunker, draining a 12-footer for birdie. The memory still elicits a wide smile.

 

[Scott Warren]

Was the second-from-bottom picture taken while that ball in front of the green was still in motion? Or did it hang up there?

[Kyle Henderson]

6th hole schematic:
http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/old_guide2004/old_course_hole_guide_6.html


“Our” caddy (officially only in the service of one player from our foursome) trundles ahead to make sure the fairway is clear of others playing either the 6th or 13th holes. The line off of the tee is between the shale pathway and the aiming pole with a tailwind, left of the pole when the breeze is hurting, as the fairway is angled slightly from left to right.



A drive that misses right may find these nasty bunkers, while the Coffins could snare drives that wander to port side.



This tricky swale offers the only real defense for the green. From 50 yards out (big tailwind) I chipped with a 5-iron, bouncing my ball twice before it plunged into the hollow and out of sight. Eventually it reappeared and settled 10 feet past the hole. Two putts for par and off to the 7th after playing perhaps the least memorable hole of the course.

[Kyle Henderson]

Was the second-from-bottom picture taken while that ball in front of the green was still in motion? Or did it hang up there?

That ball was in motion, eventually settling about 25 yards past the 5th pin.

[Sean Walsh]

The coffins left of the fairway recieve a lot more action than those shown in your photo.  The result of many people erring left for their slice/fade and hitting the dreaded straight one..  

Although architectually not the greatest of the holes on the course I really liked it.  It was also a good hole to caddie.  Picking the right line for the drive and trying to replace the lob wedge in the american's hand with the 7 iron was always fun.

Unless your distance control is very good I found this a hole that much favoured the ground game(a little like the third).    

[Kyle Henderson]

A look from the 7th tee.


The landing zone and right side of the green complex. Watch out for golfers playing to the 11th pin over the 7th fairway!


Panning left to show the entire green (11th pin seen at left/front, 7th at right/rear). Note how much higher the 11th side of the green sits with respect to 7th.


Looking down the length of the green from  the 11th to 7th pins.


A view of left side of the 7th pin from behind the green.


Looking past the 7th pin, to the 8th, 9th and 10th


Looking back to the 7th tee.

[Kyle Henderson]

8th hole schematic:
http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/old_guide2004/old_course_hole_guide_8.html

8th tee shot. Though it only measured 166 yards in length, I elected to play a soaring 5-wood that was coming back towards me as it landed just left of the green (compliments of a strong headwind).


The menacing Short Hole bunker proved inescapable by a member of my foursome. He resorted to playing a hand wedge.

[Mike_Cirba]

Kyle,

For someone who has only been to TOC once, and that being over 20 years ago now, I can't tell you how much I'm enjoying this thread.

Thank you for helping me retrace my footsteps.

[Bill_McBride]

8th hole schematic:
http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/old_guide2004/old_course_hole_guide_8.html

8th tee shot. Though it only measured 166 yards in length, I elected to play a soaring 5-wood that was coming back towards me as it landed just left of the green (compliments of a strong headwind).


The menacing Short Hole bunker proved inescapable by a member of my foursome. He resorted to playing a hand wedge.

I will never, NEVER, again go to St Andrews without a 60-64^o sand wedge.  I know, this doesn't sound much like links golf, but I got into both the Short Hole and Strath bunkers last summer, and made six on both holes after struggling to get out over those high lips.

#8 looks so simple but it's a true test of one's ability to control distance and accuracy with a short iron.  Unless you're into the wind like Kyle, then it's whatever you need to hit.  I hit a 4-wood into that wind playing the Reverse a couple of years ago, pured it to 20 feet, life was good.

[Kyle Henderson]

9th hole schematic:
http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/old_guide2004/old_course_hole_guide_9.html
The tee shot.

The simple but effectively placed fairway bunkers.

A look back (scroll right).

[James Boon]

Kyle (or anyone else with an understanding of TOC),

I seem to recall that on most of the holes, the best way to play your tee shot is down the right side, near the OOB. However, on the 9th, tight to the OOB would be to the left. Which is the best line here for your approach, is it to the left of Boase's and End Hole bunkers or from the right? There seems to be a shallow hollow if approaching from the left? Or is it such a big flat green with no trouble around that it doesn't really matter?

Cheers,

James

[Scott Warren]

James, three of the fellas in our group, me included, drove right of the fairway traps and had a perfectly flat approach. One putted from 60 out and had a perfectly flat roll the whole way.

I got the feeling that the best side of the bunkers to position yourself off the tee would depend where the flag was - right if it's right, left if it's left.

[Joel_Stewart]

Regarding the 9th, my one time playing it I hit driver onto the middle of the green and made a 40 foot putt for eagle.

In all seriousness it is one of the weaker holes on the course and not much of a challenge for a low handicap player much less a pro.  Next year for the Open I suspect every player will consider it a par 3.  Anything over a 3 will be a disappointment.

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle (or anyone else with an understanding of TOC),

I seem to recall that on most of the holes, the best way to play your tee shot is down the right side, near the OOB. However, on the 9th, tight to the OOB would be to the left. Which is the best line here for your approach, is it to the left of Boase's and End Hole bunkers or from the right? There seems to be a shallow hollow if approaching from the left? Or is it such a big flat green with no trouble around that it doesn't really matter?

Cheers,

James

As I played the 9th into a massive headwind, I punched a low 3-wood right at Boase's Trap in the middle and then punched an 8-iron onto the greenfrom 80 yards or so. But, generally, a strong player will be able to carry the End Hole trap and get very close to the green if not on it (289 yards total from the visitor tees) while playing directly down the center of the playing corridor of the 8th/10th to remove the odds of going O.B.

[Kyle Henderson]

10th hole schematic:
http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/old_guide2004/old_course_hole_guide_10.html

Tee shot.


This port side bunker should come into play more often from the 9th tee than the 10th.


You may scroll right to see where my drive came to rest. Three putts later, I was in for a par. The 11th/7th green complex embellishes the horizon.

[Adam Clayman]

Thanks very much, Kyle.

I'm in awe, and shocked how long it has taken to see a pictorial that captures TOC.

Very grateful.

I'm curious how many people seeing this course for the first time on this thread are wondering "what the f*%&"?

[Bill_McBride]

Regarding the 9th, my one time playing it I hit driver onto the middle of the green and made a 40 foot putt for eagle.

In all seriousness it is one of the weaker holes on the course and not much of a challenge for a low handicap player much less a pro.  Next year for the Open I suspect every player will consider it a par 3.  Anything over a 3 will be a disappointment.

During the 2005 Open, my wife and I stood near the left front of the ninth green and watched about six groups play through.  The pin was hard left in the middle depth.  Almost every player tried to drive the green with the tee at about 320 yards, with very firm turf.  The big trouble was gorse left or bunkers right (End primarily).  Those who left with par or worse were definitely disappointed!  It's a classic 3-1/2 par hole, as are 10 and 12 to a lesser extent.

[Tim Bert]

Thanks very much, Kyle.

I'm in awe, and shocked how long it has taken to see a pictorial that captures TOC.

Very grateful.

I'm curious how many people seeing this course for the first time on this thread are wondering "what the f*%&"?

Count me in that group, Adam.  Not in a bad way, but in a "there's no way I'm possibly ever going to understand what I'm looking at unless I get there to play - multiple rounds."     

[John Mayhugh]

If I were affluent enough to build my own private course/club in America, I would incorporate the following principles, based on my experiences in Scotland:
1)   Walking only (with the exception of the handicapped)
2)   Dog friendly
3)   3.5 hours max/18 holes
4)   Alternate shot format requirment for foursomes on weekends.
5)   Liberal unaccompanied visitor policies

Count me in!

[John Mayhugh]

5th hole schematic: http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/old_guide2004/old_course_hole_guide_5.html

The 5th tee shot.
A sizeable swale adds interest to the approach. There’s nothing more dramatic in recreational golf than waiting to see if your second shot carries the Spectacles (with a tailwind, in my case) and then waiting again to see if and where your ball will appear on or near the putting surface.

Great pic. I remember this swale well.  Your photo does a great job capturing it.

Just one request - slow down with the hole posting!  I was out of the country last week and haven't been able to spend much time on the site.  This course and the quality of your photos deserves to be spread out a bit more.

[Kyle Henderson]

Thanks very much, Kyle.

I'm in awe, and shocked how long it has taken to see a pictorial that captures TOC.

Very grateful.

I'm curious how many people seeing this course for the first time on this thread are wondering "what the f*%&"?

Count me in that group, Adam.  Not in a bad way, but in a "there's no way I'm possibly ever going to understand what I'm looking at unless I get there to play - multiple rounds."     

Adam, Thank you for the amazing compliment.

Tim,

Naturally, everything seems a bit different in person, no matter how much you study the course ahead of time. The Road Hole was pretty much what I expected, as were the 1st and last hole. Everything else was a bit different. Every GCA afficianado should see TOC, even if they don't particulalry care for it when all is said and done. There just isn't any other place like it (at least to my knowledge).

[Gary Slatter]

I was staggered by all the parked cars up the right of the 18th! I don't know what % of golfers slice their tee shots there but it must be quite high

her t-shot
Last October I played with a person who hit a VW on her t-shot, then hit a BMW with her second and still made a par!