A Pictorial: St. Andrews!!! (18th Hole Discussion Now In Session)

[Matt_Cohn]

This thread really makes me want to play the course...many times. It also makes me really averse to the idea of just playing it just once. Seems like playing it a single time would be, from a playing perspective, almost pointless, like I'd have absolutely no idea what I was doing out there. I'd enjoy the history of course. But from a "playing the game" perspective, one round at TOC seems like it would be somewhere between very frustrating and extremely confusing.

[Bill_McBride]

Can anyone post Dr Mackenzie's graphic with the four routes played by players A, B, C and D?  This to me is one of the most charming things about the Old Course, the multiple routes that can be chosen by the canny player, perhaps in concert with an experienced caddy.

I have always (in six goes at the hole) liked the route where you drive out to the right of the Beardies and then play well out to the left toward the fifth fairway.  On the graphic posted on the Strokesaver, this takes you over near the 95 yard sprinkler head, left of Hell and short of the gorse.  The Kitchen bunker (short of Hell at the 142 yard sprinkler) is a threat.  Once safely there at the 95 yard spot, it's a pretty simple pitch and run shot over the Grave bunker onto the green for a birdie putt.   



Of course there are dozens of wrinkles in the ground contours that can steer you into trouble, all along the way.  This remains my personal favorite hole on the Old Course, it's always an exercise in how best to get the ball in the hole!

[Bryan Izatt]

Hell looks so tidy.

It may look tidy, but it was still Hell four days ago. 

I'd recommend to all, that if you haven't played TOC that you take all the playing advice with a grain of salt.  It all depends on the wind.  It plays completely different in a north wind vs a south wind.  Mark and I played it in a south wind a few days ago and coming in was realy tough.  I have previously played it in a norhterly wind and going out was tough.  In a south wind, #5 was a driver, 7 iron and the spectacles were a non-factor.  Into the wind it was driver, three wood and wedge and the Spectacles were in play.

[Scott Warren]

Indeed, Bryan. The course guide told me to drive into thr Elysian Fields, so I did, to find it has been grown as a light/medium rough. Awesome!

[Adam Clayman]

His name is Bruce Sorley and he is the best I've found there.

Bruce was my competitor in the International Caddie Cup, @ Pebble Just about ten tears ago. If anyone can say hey for me? I'd appreciate that.

Tell him I've been practicing on Links course ever since just so someday Bruce can return the favor on his own home course. Playing Pebble from the tips was not fair.

Can anyone guess which course on the Monterey Peninsula the lads liked the best?   

[David Stamm]

His name is Bruce Sorley and he is the best I've found there.

Bruce was my competitor in the International Caddie Cup, @ Pebble Just about ten tears ago. If anyone can say hey for me? I'd appreciate that.

Tell him I've been practicing on Links course ever since just so someday Bruce can return the favor on his own home course. Playing Pebble from the tips was not fair.

Can anyone guess which course on the Monterey Peninsula the lads liked the best?   

CPC?

[John Mayhugh]

Kyle,

The photos just get better and better.  You only played the course one time?  You had to have studied some in advance because I don't see how you could have done as well documenting the course otherwise.  I cannot really add much commentary as it's been way too long since I've been there.  But I must remedy that soon.

[John Mayhugh]

Can anyone post Dr Mackenzie's graphic with the four routes played by players A, B, C and D?  This to me is one of the most charming things about the Old Course, the multiple routes that can be chosen by the canny player, perhaps in concert with an experienced caddy.

Not the best image.

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle,

The photos just get better and better.  You only played the course one time?  You had to have studied some in advance because I don't see how you could have done as well documenting the course otherwise.  I cannot really add much commentary as it's been way too long since I've been there.  But I must remedy that soon.

One play indeed. I walked quickly to keep my playing partners' arses out of frame. Most of the images, aside from views from the tees and greenside, were taken mid-stride. I'm only posting about 80% of the shots I took here in this thread. Certainly, there were a number of angles I didn't have time to explore. The course is not the easiest to photograph. Ideally, I would need an empty course, low- angled sunlight, a very tall step ladder and something a bit more advanced than my Sony handicam, but I'm happy with what I got.

Despite my busy shooting schedule, somehow I still managed to post a decent score and savor every moment.

As Matt Cohn suggests, we both need to return and give TOC a few dozen more plays.

[Bill_McBride]

Thanks, John.  I would like to be player B but I am really player C.  That is the safest line to make a par 5.

Adam, I'm glad you got to meet Bruce, he is a terrific guy and a terrific caddy.

[Adam Clayman]

David, No. Guess again?

Bill, Has Bruce ever told you about the first time Tiger came over as a pro?

[Tim Bert]

David, No. Guess again?

Bill, Has Bruce ever told you about the first time Tiger came over as a pro?

Pacific Grove?

[Andy Hughes]

It may look tidy, but it was still Hell four days ago. 

Bryan, I don't doubt Hell is still tough and a huge strategic issue to deal with, but it just looks so antiseptic, too neat. Just personal preference of course but I much prefer the gnarly and unkempt look. Looks more Hellish.

[Bill_McBride]

David, No. Guess again?

Bill, Has Bruce ever told you about the first time Tiger came over as a pro?

No, Bruce didn't talk about that, at least not that I could understand!  (He has a pretty strong Scottish burr.)

I recommended him to Forrest Richardson when Forrest went over to play the Reverse programme last year and I think that worked out well.  FR sent me a nice team photo!

[Bryan Izatt]

It may look tidy, but it was still Hell four days ago. 

Bryan, I don't doubt Hell is still tough and a huge strategic issue to deal with, but it just looks so antiseptic, too neat. Just personal preference of course but I much prefer the gnarly and unkempt look. Looks more Hellish.

I think it looks hard edged and harsh, rather than antiseptic.  But, it's in the eye of the beholder.  I can assure you from recent practical experience that an 8 foot vertical sod wall is hellacious.  Form versus function.

[Adam Clayman]

Pacific Grove?

Ding ding ding.

Chicken dinner.

[Leo Barber]

Fascinating to read of the different ways to play this hole and I think given a chance again I might reconsider the option I took.  Hell Bunker is just so wonderfully placed.  I flirted with the wall off the tee and was then left with an awkward distance of about 180 yards to clear Hell into a growing breeze.  Having suffered significant hurt in the Hill Bunker I was keen to avoid the similar fate that was potentially awaiting with Hell.  Taking six iron to lay up I went just off the end of the fairway but unfortunately caught a heavy lie.  So much for avoiding Hell, a grabbed 9iron from some lengthy fescue chunked straight in.  You will notice though that I wasnt the only guy in the 4 to pay my respects that day and you will notice that neither of us are projecting the ensuing shots towards the pin - something that on my course my golfers think is their god given right!



Funny but I never considered heading out towards the 5th fairway and that 92 yard sprinkler.  I think faced with a similar scenario and breeze thats exactly what I would have done because the ground all around Hell is pretty hit and miss with regards to what kind of lie you end up with.

[Mark Pearce]

I can't remember now where the tee was, but on my one and only visit I hit a 3iron here through the back of the green and my partner hit a 6 iron, such was the strength of the tailwind!

Which sums up how the wind can change the way the course plays.  When I played with Bryan last week No 5 was (for both of us) Driver, 7 iron.  12 played Driver 5 iron for me into a strong left to right and into wind.

[Bill_McBride]

Fascinating to read of the different ways to play this hole and I think given a chance again I might reconsider the option I took.  Hell Bunker is just so wonderfully placed.  I flirted with the wall off the tee and was then left with an awkward distance of about 180 yards to clear Hell into a growing breeze.  Having suffered significant hurt in the Hill Bunker I was keen to avoid the similar fate that was potentially awaiting with Hell.  Taking six iron to lay up I went just off the end of the fairway but unfortunately caught a heavy lie.  So much for avoiding Hell, a grabbed 9iron from some lengthy fescue chunked straight in.  You will notice though that I wasnt the only guy in the 4 to pay my respects that day and you will notice that neither of us are projecting the ensuing shots towards the pin - something that on my course my golfers think is their god given right!



Funny but I never considered heading out towards the 5th fairway and that 92 yard sprinkler.  I think faced with a similar scenario and breeze thats exactly what I would have done because the ground all around Hell is pretty hit and miss with regards to what kind of lie you end up with.

Played by mere mortals, the 14th hole is one of the best in the world.  As Leo says above, when you hit a good drive into the Elysian Fields, threading the needle between the Beardies and the wall, if you can't carry Hell, where do you go?  To the right of Hell is a minefield of broken ground, rough and little bunkers.  Short as he says is no bargain. 

For the modern professional, even from the tee out in the Eden course that makes the hole over 600 yards, Hell is no challenge unless the wind is hard into your face.  At the 2005 Open we sat in the bleachers and watched one after another bust a drive into the Elysian Field and then bust a fairway wood, hybrid or long iron over the bunker. 

Not much fun for the onlookers unfortunately. 

[Kyle Henderson]

I faced a stong headwind on #14. My drive found the right center of the Elysian Fields. From there I gripped down to the metal and punched a 3-wood to the end of the fairway and then hit a full 3-wood to just short of the green. A chip and a putt later, I was quite pleased to make 5.

[Doug Siebert]

It sounds like 14 really comes alive playing into a strong headwind.  Hopefully I'll have that next time I'm there.  Last time playing in a fairly benign right to left wind I just decided to aim it at the right edge of Hell from the tee as that seemed about as far right as I was comfortable aiming even with wind blowing left as I'd pushed a few shots earlier in the round.  I drove it a little past Benty (must have missed rolling into it by a couple feet) and had a 6 iron to a way back pin position.  Not that it did me any good, as I three putted it from I think about 40 feet.  Never have I played a course where straight in 4-5 foot putts are so damn hard to make!

[Leo Barber]

I dont ever remember D on the sketch above being an option for the second ie play right of hell.  From memory it looked like alot of gorse out there and heavy rough and it was either lay up or have a go or.........as I study it now, play well left

[Kyle Henderson]

15th hole schematic:
http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/old_guide2004/old_course_hole_guide_15.html

The 15th tee shot asks much of the golfer when winds are unfavorable.


This view shows the wind-blown Cottage bunker in the foreground, with the Sutherland bunker just beyond



This is the view from divot land, between Miss Grainger’s Bosoms.



Another smattering of bunkers (Robs) adds intrigue to lay-ups and long approach shots..



Aside from this predominant greenside bunker, subtle contours provide the greatest obstacle to those hoping for a low score.

[Adam Clayman]

After reading that we are already to the 15th hole, and as experienced on many great courses, lamenting the fact that the round is almost complete really hit home upon seeing the Auld Grey Toon in your first photo of the 15th.

Thanx, again!

[Kyle Henderson]

After reading that we are already to the 15th hole, and as experienced on many great courses, lamenting the fact that the round is almost complete really hit home upon seeing the Auld Grey Toon in your first photo of the 15th.

Thanx, again!

Again, it is my pleasure, Mr. Clayman. And not to fear, I still have 8 courses left to profile from my trip!