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Kyle Henderson

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St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« on: July 21, 2009, 03:44:21 PM »
I'm shocked. I always figured the entire Eden course was bound to be razed and replaced by new tees for the Open Championhip.


http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-golfnotes&prov=ap&type=lgns
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Adrian_Stiff

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 04:45:52 PM »
I am notsure there is much scope to extend the old lady anymore, the 4th, 5th, 9th maybe but is there anything on the back nine?
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A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
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Anthony Gray

Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 05:20:03 PM »


  With the tee for 14 back on the Eden the Hell Bunker stil doesn't come into play...This is hard for me to believe.

  Anthony

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Melvyn Morrow

Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 05:34:21 PM »
Links Trust sketch of the Ginger Hole No.4 TOC

The R&A say"The only significant change being planned is for No. 4, the 480-yard par 4 in which players try to carry a mound of thick stuff to reach the left side of the fairway".


Their approach details


Melvyn
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George Pazin

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 05:41:44 PM »
Quote from: Melvyn Hunter Morrow on July 21, 2009, 05:34:21 PM
Links Trust sketch of the Ginger Hole No.4 TOC

The R&A say"The only significant change being planned is for No. 4, the 480-yard par 4 in which players try to carry a mound of thick stuff to reach the left side of the fairway".


Their approach details


Melvyn

Interestingly enough, Tom Watson mentioned #4 as his real problem next year. He mentioned that if the wind comes from the west, he cannot make the carry to the fairway (going from memory, I could have the facts wrong). Hopefully they will cut the shorter junk down.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 05:55:26 PM »
They can always take on the right side, which yields the best approach angle.  That's the theme of the outward holes #2-6.  Safe drive left, devilish approach.  Dangerous drive right, open approach.

Is right of the road OB  during the Open?  I was there during the last one but can 't remember.
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Adrian_Stiff

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 05:57:17 PM »
Bill- I don't think it is OB
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A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2009, 06:00:35 PM »
Quote from: Adrian_Stiff on July 21, 2009, 05:57:17 PM
Bill- I don't think it is OB

Might kill somebody in the gallery though! 

I know it's not OB during regular play, my only birdie last time there was on #3, with a short iron from right of the road!
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2009, 06:21:35 PM »

Bill

Don't mention kill, they will all be after me again thinking its another Tiger thread ;)

Melvyn
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2009, 10:38:04 PM »
Quote from: Melvyn Hunter Morrow on July 21, 2009, 06:21:35 PM

Bill

Don't mention kill, they will all be after me again thinking its another Tiger thread ;)

Melvyn

Keep your head down, Melvyn!
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John Moore II

Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2009, 10:50:26 PM »
Is it just me or has the weather been superb the last 2 Opens at The Old Course? Maybe even back to 1995 when Daly won as well. Is that normal weather for there? I think if they got weather at St. Andrews like we saw at Turnberry this week, the score would not be 18 under par. Has it just been a really good draw for the Old Course dates the past 2 or 3 Opens? With perfect weather 4 days in a row, would the pro's not shoot 15 under or so at any of the rota courses?
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Bill_McBride

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2009, 11:30:45 PM »
Quote from: John K. Moore on July 21, 2009, 10:50:26 PM
Is it just me or has the weather been superb the last 2 Opens at The Old Course? Maybe even back to 1995 when Daly won as well. Is that normal weather for there? I think if they got weather at St. Andrews like we saw at Turnberry this week, the score would not be 18 under par. Has it just been a really good draw for the Old Course dates the past 2 or 3 Opens? With perfect weather 4 days in a row, would the pro's not shoot 15 under or so at any of the rota courses?

John, my wife and I were there in 2005 and it was so hot we went incognito and wore shorts every day!  I only took one pair (we were after all going to London, Wales, Leeds, North Berwick and Scotland!), luckily they were black!  It was very hot and not windy.
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Wayne_Kozun

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2009, 11:37:07 PM »
Score of winners in Opens at TOC:
2005 -14
2000 -19
1995 -6
1990 -18
1984 -12
1978 -7
1970 -5
1964 -9
1960 -10

The score in 2000 was abnormally low but Tiger was playing as if he was from a totally different planet that year and won by 8 shots.  

It seems to take a seasoned player to win at St Andrews, the last player to win his first major at TOC was Tony Lema in 1964, although he was second by one to Jack by one shot at the previous year's Masters.

Other than John Daly the winners here since 1990 have been, arguably, the best golfer in the decade that they won - Tiger (00s), Faldo (90s), Seve (80s), Jack (70s).
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John Moore II

Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2009, 12:17:12 AM »
Wayne, I think you are right about the really good golfers winning at The Old Course. The scores do seem low, but I don't think anyone cares.


On a side note, is there any chance of the R&A playing the Open on courses other than the current rota courses? Like perhaps Prestwick again, or Royal Dornoch? Even perhaps the Castle Course or any number of other courses? Just a thought.
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Chris Kane

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2009, 12:49:11 AM »
Quote from: John K. Moore on July 22, 2009, 12:17:12 AM
On a side note, is there any chance of the R&A playing the Open on courses other than the current rota courses? Like perhaps Prestwick again, or Royal Dornoch? Even perhaps the Castle Course or any number of other courses? Just a thought.
Prestwick is far too short (and I'm not sure the property is large enough to cope with the stands, corporate villages etc.  The town of Dornoch couldn't cope with an Open.
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Scott Warren

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2009, 01:36:33 AM »
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BCrosby

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2009, 08:01:41 AM »
This is great news.

When is the last time a US Open venue was played "unchanged"?

Bob
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Bill_McBride

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2009, 08:35:15 AM »
Bob, it's hard to say the Old Course is "unchanged" when there are tees on the New, Eden and Himalayas courses!  But I hear what you are saying.  The course is not set up much differently from daily play except for length added by these off course tees.

I'm not that knowledgeable about Pinehurst #2 but don't think a whole lot was done there for the Opens.  But I could be very wrong!
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BCrosby

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2009, 09:36:21 AM »
Bill -

What I take them to mean by "unchanged" is that next year there will be only minor changes. A tweak to the 4th landing area being about it.

Actualy, Oakmont comes to mind as a US course that is played in the US Open uchanged. But then it is played unchanged because - uniquely - it is maintained on a day to day basis as an archtype of a penal US Open set-up.

Bob
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 09:41:40 AM by BCrosby »
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Bill_McBride

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Re: St. Andrews to be "unchanged"
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2009, 10:42:22 AM »
Quote from: BCrosby on July 22, 2009, 09:36:21 AM
Bill -

What I take them to mean by "unchanged" is that next year there will be only minor changes. A tweak to the 4th landing area being about it.

Actualy, Oakmont comes to mind as a US course that is played in the US Open uchanged. But then it is played unchanged because - uniquely - it is maintained on a day to day basis as an archtype of a penal US Open set-up.

Bob

An Oakmont member once told me - as I was 4-putting #9 - that they are proud that the USGA actually slows down the greens for the U.S. Open!
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