[Jeff_Brauer]

Tim and David,

You know, I can understand the follow the earth stuff. Really. But I also always wondered about guys who moved a million yards of earth to build a traditional golf course.  I recall thinking that if I was going to move 400K of earth, I damn well wanted MB golfers to see it!  And, that I believe that the MB golfer, and the TV generation in general needs more visual stimulus than most, and low profile doesn't cut it, again, at least specific to MB.

One critique of WW I heard that it was like a Japanese garden, where there is a certain amount of artificality accepted. (ie pay no attention to the man behind the curtain)  I can see that.

Like you, I think a certain amount of highly mounded courses are good for golf.  They or any other style shouldn't be the final word or the only style mandated.  AS always, JMHO

[John Moore II]

I would have to guess the mounds and such were 100 required in this area. Having seen the area around there its a pan flat place, and like Jeff said, the water table would be very close to the surface.

Jeff, did you move any earth at all that was not brought in or dug up to form a pond?

I'd like to give this place a try, I played the old Hummingbird course right around New Years 2003. I can't remember anything about the course really. Just that I was there. I kept thinking I should have played World Tour.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I moved about 400K of dirt and most all of it was from the ponds.  No fw or rough area was cut more than about 1/2 a foot because of the water table.  It is far too expensive to haul in dirt.

Willard moved about the same amount, but 200K went into raising the fw for drainage, thus reducing the visual effect of the other half of the earthmoving.  As I have stated before, there are some basic engineering tenants - the cost of drainage should about equal the cost of earthmoving - that tell me when I am being efficient with the earthmoving.

I do recall the contractor struggling with the wet dirt.  Finally, they brought in local earthmovers who built a rim ditch around the site first to lower the water table before moving any real golf course dirt.  I think TPC Sawgrass was built basically the same way.  It always helps to rely on local knowledge on the golf course, even when moving dirt!

There was about 2' of elevation change across the site.  All the ponds are connected by deep pipes at the same level, and it overflows near 5 tee.  Like most Florida cousres, we needed a lot of long lateral ponds to provide suitable drain outlets.

[Ian Larson]

This is actually where I got my start in the business, specifically on the Woodstork Course. After graduating high school I chose Coastal Carolina which is right across the street to do my undergrad and then my turf degree right across the street from there at Horry-Georgetown.

When I left for school everyone at my hometown course, Lewistown Country Club, was telling me to look up a guy named Dave Downing at Wild Wing. Who was from my hometown and got his start from the same super at LCC. He was the Director of Maintenance at Wild Wing and brought me on as a turf student when I arrived and started classes. I later followed him to build the 4 courses at Barefoot Landing in North Myrtle.

I have alot of fond memories from the years I worked there during college. It seemed so big time to me coming from small town central Pennsylvania and the clubs I was used to playing at through grade school. Avocet was always my favorite with my own Woodstork being right behind it.

Jeff,

Did you work with Dave Downing at all during the construction?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Ian,

Absolutely.  He and I had great synergy and are still good friends.  When you look at the 10th hole, it was one where I let him have some signfigant design input and he still mentions that. I don't think Rees let him that fun! (wink)

He still ribs me about the big putting green.  It required a sprinkler in the center of the green which he always thought was funny.

[Randy Thompson]

Jeff,
Looks good and also looks late 80ish, when was it constructed just out of curiosity?
Randy

[Tim Gavrich]

Ian,

Absolutely.  He and I had great synergy and are still good friends.  When you look at the 10th hole, it was one where I let him have some signfigant design input and he still mentions that. I don't think Rees let him that fun! (wink)

He still ribs me about the big putting green.  It required a sprinkler in the center of the green which he always thought was funny.

Randy--

It opened in 1993.

Jeff--

That big putting green is no more, unfortunately.  They leveled most of it, it appears, and built a pool area on top of the other half of it.  It was one of the most unusual putting greens I'd ever seen and I was sad that it wasn't there anymore.  They now have a very plain one in between the clubhouse and the mass parking area for the carts.  There is no chipping area to speak of.  I expect and hope they'll do something about that sooner or later.

Ian--

Curious as to your thoughts on the Barefoot courses.  I've played all but the Fazio course, albeit a little while ago.  According to my recollection, I preferred the Dye course over the Norman, then the Love course.

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