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Tim Gavrich

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Lightbulb Greens
« on: July 12, 2009, 12:50:18 AM »
Yesterday, I played a golf course called Dunes West outside Charleston, SC, a (gasp!) Arthur Hills layout.  It wasn't bad.  Certainly not minimalist, but not obnoxiously man-made, I thought.

Anyway, there were a couple greens that were really narrow in front and then opened up wider towards the middle and back.  I decided that I really like that green shape.  When the pin is up front, you'll have a club or two less but you'll be hitting to a narrower area--an interesting trade-off.  Or if you aren't confident hitting to the narrow part, you can play for the fat of the green and test your lag-putting skills.  And then pins middle-right or middle-left, back-right or back-left would mean the approach shot would have to clear whatever guards the front pin area.  Basically the 14th green at Bethpage Black this year.  I like.

What say ye?
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Lightbulb Greens
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2009, 01:11:26 AM »
Tim,

Flew out of Hartford home this afternoon.  Didn't even think to give you a call.......

There are a lot of theories on green shape design.  The narrow front, wider back green is certainly one of them that deserves to be used on at least a few holes on almost any course.  If angled slightly left or right, then narrow opening sets up a preferred angle.  Since its easier to make bunkers visible if they have a slight angle (hard to explain in words, but true) the narrower front with bunkers usually looks pretty good.

But, it is a lot harder for the average golfer, and another theory says the greens ought to be wider in the front where aveage golfers might miss and need more room.  Even on a design balanced between good and average play, I would favor using it on shorter approach shots, or right now in KS, on a medium length par 3 where the alternate tees makes the challenge more even across the spectrum of play. 

When I build the light bulb, I often incorporate a backboard for the large back portion, meaning the golfer can really take 2-3 extra clubs and be safe, while avoiding the front hazards.  The back pins become a lot easier, of course, but I believe that adding the tempation of really overclubbing, but resultin in a downhill putt adds to the dilema of playing the safe shot when the Sunday pin is front, between the bunkers.

Short version - I like it, but its hard, and too many courses repeat this element far too often.  Its a keeper if used as part of a balanced breakfast,.....er, design.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Matthew Mollica

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Re: Lightbulb Greens
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2009, 02:19:34 AM »
The 7th green at National (Old) at Cape Schanck, Australia is a par 3 with it's green resembling a llightbulb shape.

The men's tee plays at it side on (skinny bit right).
The womens' tee plays it straight on - a shorter but sometimes tougher shot.

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Andy Troeger

Re: Lightbulb Greens
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2009, 12:59:09 PM »
This shape green can really make short/medium length par fours difficult. The 13th at Harbour Town with the massive bunker and the railroad ties makes for a great example. Less known would also be the 15th at Warren at Notre Dame which also has a huge gaping bunker and a TINY front portion of the green. That hole drives me nuts because it seems straightforward but I make more doubles there than pars--great design though.

Bart Bradley

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Re: Lightbulb Greens
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2009, 01:31:58 PM »
Tim:

Each of my two home courses has a green like this.  They are difficult and strategic and challenging.  On the 16th at the Virginian the approach is at the same grade as the front of the green...Sharp fall-offs exist on either side of the front portion of the green and this portion of the green is slightly domed to the sides...It is very difficult to approach a hole location on this front portion of the green...At the USGA Senior AM, many of the participants played the approach shot just to the front run-up to allow for a relatively easy pitch instead of challenging the hole location..pin high misses left and right are very challenging up and downs.

What fun  ;D.


Bart
 

Evan Fleisher

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Re: Lightbulb Greens
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2009, 09:37:58 PM »
I think I'd call this one a lightblub green...

http://www.johndeereclassic.com/hole_17.php

...at least it feels that way in person even if this depiction does not do it justice.  A really hard shot to a front pin if you miss this green long and/or right.
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Mike Benham

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Re: Lightbulb Greens
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2009, 12:25:53 AM »
11th hole at Pajaro Valley ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Mike Jansen

Re: Lightbulb Greens
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2009, 01:29:12 AM »
A great example of this is the 6th hole at Spy... the narrow front part sits a couple feet below the back part, its a helluva slope... and if your putting from back to front you're lucky to keep it on the green.  You are correct in that it can be a couple club difference based on hole location.  The narrow front portion is protected by bunkers on both sides.

tlavin

Re: Lightbulb Greens
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2009, 10:20:47 AM »
I think this is a cool shape to see on a green.  Probably my favorite shape, though, is the piece-of-toast shape of the 13th green at Shoreacres.  Very cool, with the rounded shape at the back of the green and the flat at the front.

David Mulle

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Re: Lightbulb Greens
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 04:05:40 PM »
I actually really prefer the "reverse lightbulb green".  Wide up front and narrower towards the back.  Banff made great use of this feature.  The wider opening makes it easier for the less skilled golfers while the narrow back demands precision from better players who want to get their approach shots close to the back pin positions.

Mike Benham

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Re: Lightbulb Greens
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2009, 07:50:35 PM »
11th hole at Pajaro Valley ...


Stolen without permission ...

"... and I liked the guy ..."

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