[Ed Oden]

What par 3s have tees that provide the largest difference in angles of approach to the green?  Are there any that provide a 90 degree or greater variation?  It seems to me this would be an easy way to change (perhaps even reverse) the playing characteristics of a hole by bringing into play pin positions and hazards that are not necessarily critical when approached from the other angle.  For example, how about a traditional redan demanding a running long iron to a back left pin that can also be played from a shorter tee maybe 75 degrees to the left, thereby bringing the front bunker much more into play and making right pin placement viable?  Would the distance between the tees render such a design a practical impracticality?  Thanks in advance for your responses.

Ed

[Kevin_Reilly]

I remember that from the TV coverage, the 12th at Muirfield Village had a horizontal orientation to some of its tee boxes (that hole has several sets of tees).  It seemed that the tee shot could be moved significantly from side to side on at least one of the boxes.  Maybe not what you were thinking of with this thread, but something that came to mind for me.

[John Moore II]

The 6th at Tobacco Road has over 45 degrees difference in tees. The 14th at Bryan Park Champions has nearly 90 degrees difference in the sets. The 5th at Talamore has about 90 degrees difference. Those are the only ones I can think of.

The one at Tobacco Road is viable because its an off piece of land there. The par 3 at Bryan Park works because there is a cove of water that runs between the two sets of tees; one set plays directly accross the water to the green, and the other set plays all over dry land. The par 3 with the 90degree tee at Talamore is stupid; there is a house in between the two tees and almost no difference in strategy from either tee, a real waste.

[Ben Sims]

Ed,

Check out the Ran's review of Kingsley Club.  There is a very good write up in reference to #9 that talks about your question.

[Will MacEwen]

I think most layouts could do with even slightly differing teeing angles.  It seems like an inexpensive way to add some variety, especially on a members' course.  My club has an alternate men's tee on a par three, and I only see it in use about three times per year. 

[Bob Jenkins]

Ed,

 I believe you would find at least two of the par 3s at Chambers Bay offer wildly different angles. Specifically # 3 and #12 come to mind. # 9 and # 17 also offer wide tee angles, although less so than those on #3 and #12. The tees at Chambers are the most interesting I have ever run across and are stated to be "ribbons" down to the fairway.

Just considering #3, teeing up from the very left side of the tee provided a completely different angle than from the right side.  The tees were, to me, one of the most interesting and unique aspects of Chambers Bay.

Bob Jenkins

[Mike Jansen]

The 7th at Riverbend GC (Madera, CA)  A large water hazard fronts the green... its pretty much all carry from the back tees, and then they progressively move forward and along the right side of the water... the carry is significantly reduced.  From the back tee the green is wide, but very shallow... from the forward tee angle the green is a little narrower but much deeper.

[CJ Carder]

The "signature" hole at my home course, the Golden Horseshoe Gold Course, is a par 3 that has a pretty substantial difference in angle between the blue (middle) tees and the whites (regular mens) and golds (tips).  By shifting the angle, it turns the green from a wide but shallow target into a narrow but deep target.  For what it's worth, taking into account the yardage differences between the gold tees and the blue tees, I actually think the blues are a much more demanding shot.

http://www.colonialwilliamsburgresort.com/golf/tours/gold?hole=16

[Matt Day]

the 3rd hole at my home track Joondalup CC, tees are spread over a distance of 120 metres around the quarry.

The carry of the quarry narrows as you move from the tiger tees on the right to the ladies tee on the left, but the areas to miss also becomes bigger as the carry narrows

[PCCraig]

If done correctly multiple tees on a par 3 can be a really neat addition and add a ton of strategy. The 2nd hole at the 9-hole Dunes Club in MI has three distinct sets of tees (high low and medium) which all play different lengths and are reached after choosing one of three walking paths at the 1st green.

[Ed Oden]

Thanks for the replies so far.  I wasn't thinking about holes that merely have varying angles for the forward, middle, back, etc. tees.  I've seen that before as a mechanism to adjust difficulty to match playing skill.  For the most part, those tee positions are fixed, so if you play the back tees you will never see the angle created from the forward tees.  Rather, what I was really trying to get at are holes which have what amounts to duplicate sets of tees where all tees (shortest through longest) could be moved on a daily basis to adjust the angle and playing characteristics of the hole.  Its the par 3 equivalent of an alternative fairway or green on a par 4 or 5.  Or taken to the extreme, like designing a hole that can be played in reverse.  I realize there are potential problems with this concept (e.g., higher maintenance costs and greater the distances between tees/greens).  But has it been done?

Ed

[Bart Bradley]

Ed:

Kingsley #9 is exactly what you describe...there are two sets of tees....90 degrees apart....the boomerang shaped green can be approached from the south or the west depending on the days' tees.

A variation on this theme exists at Leopard Creek in South Africa on number 16...there is a lake that has a nearly 120 degree semicircular edge that is all tee boxes as you go clockwise you get somewhat closer to the green which sits out in the lake (and of course the angle changes considerably)...here is a schematic of the hole taken from www.leopardcreek.com



Bart

[Mark Pritchett]

Ed,

Here are some pictures of the 6th hole par 3 on the Island Nine at Champions Retreat (Evans, Georgia).

Tee Shot



Bridge to the alternate tees and green



Other set of tees to the same green

[Adam Clayman]

Pinon hills signature hole has one of the better uses of a differing angle. Its not 90 degrees but its quite functional for walkers and provides enough of a different look to the 2 winged green.

[Matthew Mollica]

Matt Day's Quarry hole at Joondalup is an RTJ Jnr creation.
So too is the 7th at The National at Cape Schanck.

It has a lightbulb shaped green, and variety in tee positions.
The red line is the usual womens comp tee.
Played occasionally by men - so too the yellow line (womens medal tee).
The purple line (longest tee shot) is from the mens medal tee.
The sky blue line represents the usual mens comp tee.

MM

[Matt Day]

Matt
both those trent jones holes would have been built around the same time?

[J Sadowsky]

The "signature" hole at my home course, the Golden Horseshoe Gold Course, is a par 3 that has a pretty substantial difference in angle between the blue (middle) tees and the whites (regular mens) and golds (tips).  By shifting the angle, it turns the green from a wide but shallow target into a narrow but deep target.  For what it's worth, taking into account the yardage differences between the gold tees and the blue tees, I actually think the blues are a much more demanding shot.

http://www.colonialwilliamsburgresort.com/golf/tours/gold?hole=16

I was JUST going to mention this hole!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The short 7th at Royal Birkdale has a number of different tees which give shots from widely differing angles, but the hole is less satisfactory from the wider angles. It plays best on the linbe of the championship tee.

[Kalen Braley]

Here is a hole to trump them all.  Its a Desmond Muirhead course in Dubai and tees can be placed anywhere, (360 degrees) around the green. 

[Adam Clayman]

wow, that might be the wildest concept I've ever seen.

[Eric Smith]

15 and 17 at Haig Point are examples of this...the 'Haig' tees and the 'Calibogue' tees.  One route takes the player across wetlands to the green while the other route avoids a forced carry.

[Anthony Gray]

  All in all I think with possble pin placements and tee boxes Tobacco Road has the most variety of eny course when it comes to par 3's.
   

  Anthony

[Jason McNamara]

Here is a hole to trump them all.  Its a Desmond Muirhead course in Dubai and tees can be placed anywhere

It's kind of unfair to combine Desmond Muirhead -and- Dubai in any "most extreme ABC" thread, isn't it?  I mean it's just not all that sporting.  :-)

[Anthony Gray]

Here is a hole to trump them all.  Its a Desmond Muirhead course in Dubai and tees can be placed anywhere, (360 degrees) around the green. 

  Wouldn't that be great in your backyard? Where is the putting surface?

  Anthony

[John Moore II]

All in all I think with possble pin placements and tee boxes Tobacco Road has the most variety of eny course when it comes to par 3's.
Anthony

Well, I had to read this one twice to see you were talking about pin placements as well. The only problem is, they so rarely use many of the quirky pin placements. I have never seen the pin cut on the far right 1/4th of #17, which would make for great interest. The pin placements on #8 are basically funnels, either front left or the right side, hit the ball within 25 feet or so of the pin and you almost have a hole-in-one. I think as a rule, with the exception of #6, which is very good, the par 3's at TR are just average (though #14 from the very, very back tee, the one they don't maintain anymore, is top notch. But from the 150ish tees they use now, its fairly basic)

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