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Robert Mercer Deruntz

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A twist on a template
« on: July 13, 2009, 04:35:56 PM »
This is the 6th at Colorado Golf Club which plays from several tees up to 270.  The features of a redan exist, but by no means is this meant to be thought of as a redan.  There is tremendous elasticity and there is meant to be several pin and tee combinations.  the green is a good 50 yards in depth with quite a few interesting contours.  Shots hit long on target end up in a tight lie area that runs into the 7th tee.


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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A twist on a template
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2009, 04:38:27 PM »
Robert,

Curious why you say..."The features of a redan exist, but by no means is this meant to be thought of as a redan".
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JC Jones

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Re: A twist on a template
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2009, 04:39:27 PM »
Robert,

Minus the front-to-back tilt of the green, this seems to be awfully redan-like.
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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A twist on a template
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2009, 04:44:25 PM »
Quote from: JC Jones on July 13, 2009, 04:39:27 PM
Robert,

Minus the front-to-back tilt of the green, this seems to be awfully redan-like.

Looks to me like the tilt is distinctly front right to back left (the last photo is from behind the green),

I too am curious why this is not to be considered a redan --- note the small "r" redan!
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Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A twist on a template
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2009, 04:52:09 PM »
Elevated tee shot to a completely visible green (if the first photo is from one of the tee boxes) is not redan-like.
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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A twist on a template
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2009, 05:29:42 PM »
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on July 13, 2009, 04:52:09 PM
Elevated tee shot to a completely visible green (if the first photo is from one of the tee boxes) is not redan-like.

There are very good redan holes where you can see the green - Creek #8, Apache Stronghold, Mountain Lake - so I don't think visibility is a disqualifier.
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Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A twist on a template
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2009, 06:42:14 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on July 13, 2009, 05:29:42 PM
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on July 13, 2009, 04:52:09 PM
Elevated tee shot to a completely visible green (if the first photo is from one of the tee boxes) is not redan-like.

There are very good redan holes where you can see the green - Creek #8, Apache Stronghold, Mountain Lake - so I don't think visibility is a disqualifier.

I prefer a fortress orientation...looking down on the green just doesn't feel the same.
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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A twist on a template
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2009, 08:35:48 PM »
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on July 13, 2009, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: Bill_McBride on July 13, 2009, 05:29:42 PM
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on July 13, 2009, 04:52:09 PM
Elevated tee shot to a completely visible green (if the first photo is from one of the tee boxes) is not redan-like.

There are very good redan holes where you can see the green - Creek #8, Apache Stronghold, Mountain Lake - so I don't think visibility is a disqualifier.

I prefer a fortress orientation...looking down on the green just doesn't feel the same.

Hard to disagree (love North Berwick and NGLA's versions), but it is very cool to watch the ball move on the green with those downhill shots.  (The Kirk theorem in action!)
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John Moore II

Re: A twist on a template
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 08:51:23 PM »
So at 270 yards and altitude I assume this is a par 3? Otherwise I should think its an exceptionally easy par 4. Looks to be a very good par 3 though.
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Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A twist on a template
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2009, 10:59:12 PM »
This is a twist on the redan because of several features.  First, the mound that acts as a kicker is 30 yards short of the green, and a ball hit on the line of mound that lands 10 yards short of the green has carried the kicker and will hang upon the right side of the green or miss to the right.  Secondly, the back left is higher than the middle left.  Thirdly, the right side of the green is not sloped enough for rolling shots to redirect to the left like a traditional redan.  Forthly, the hole is downhiill, thus not a true redan.  Finally, there is an absence of the fortress entrance.
   This being said, the middle left pin has the ability for a redan like play off the mound.  The greatness of this hole is that there is incredible flexibility.  There are quite a few tees that offer different distances and angles.  A great setup is a front left pin with a forward tee.  The middle tees to the right pins seemed to look pretty cool as well.  And the back left pin is simply diabolical.
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